Who was the greatest soldier ever?

Do I really need to? You're saying that glorified celebrity fighters (At best) can contend with a group of organized practitioners of martial arts who have decided their entire life (Probably since childhood) to an ancient form of fighting.

I've seen the training regiment of UFC Fighters and Shaolin Monks. I can personally tell you that punching a wall for hours until it has disintegrated and balancing on your head (Alone) for SEVERAL hours is practically more efficient than using a skip rope for twenty minutes and punching a soft bag.

These UFC Fighters go home at night. They wake up in the morning and tend to their families. They own businesses.

Martial arts is a Shaolin Monk's life and a UFC fighter bears no chance to even contend. Saying otherwise is quite ignorant, I'm sorry.

The conditioning of a UFC Fighter and his training is indeed an amazing feature. They're great fighters. Unfortunately, they cannot contend with Shaolin Monks. Really.

Except for the whole "practical training" aspect of being in the UFC.

Originally posted by Genesis
Do I really need to? You're saying that glorified celebrity fighters (At best) can contend with a group of organized practitioners of martial arts who have decided their entire life (Probably since childhood) to an ancient form of fighting.

I've seen the training regiment of UFC Fighters and Shaolin Monks. I can personally tell you that punching a wall for hours until it has disintegrated and balancing on your head (Alone) for SEVERAL hours is practically more efficient than using a skip rope for twenty minutes and punching a soft bag.

These UFC Fighters go home at night. They wake up in the morning and tend to their families. They own businesses.

Martial arts is a Shaolin Monk's life and a UFC fighter bears no chance to even contend. Saying otherwise is quite ignorant, I'm sorry.

The conditioning of a UFC Fighter and his training is indeed an amazing feature. They're great fighters. Unfortunately, they cannot contend with Shaolin Monks. Really.

Much of the Shoalin style of fighting doesn't translate into a fight, at least a fight where you can't predict what your opponent (another Shaolin practioner) will do, do to forms.

While FC fighers take what works best in any given situation and apply it to fighting. You're really goign to compare "balancing on your head" to learning boxing, kicking, wrestling, jui jit su and other grappling technics? Wait, you did. LoL.

Yeah, but a wall doesn't hit back and you're ignorant if you think UFC fighters practice for "20 minutes".

Sorry, but you have this romanticized (and ignorant) view of Shoalin monks. It's cute though. Maybe in your mind the Shaolin get their weapons while the others do not, if so, then in that fight you're probably right, as twin hooks are hard to block with padded gloves.

Originally posted by Robtard
Much of the Shoalin style of fighting doesn't translate into a fight, at least a fight where you can't predict what your opponent (another Shaolin practioner) will do, do to forms.

While FC fighers take what works best in any given situation and apply it to fighting. You're really goign to compare "balancing on your head" to learning boxing, kicking, wrestling, jui jit su and other grappling technics? Wait, you did. LoL.

Yeah, but a wall doesn't hit back and you're ignorant if you think UFC fighters practice for "20 minutes".

Sorry, but you have this romanticized (and ignorant) view of Shoalin monks. It's cute though.

The first problem the MMA fighters will have is getting close enough to even hit the Monk. The second problem is mastery of a single form. An MMA fighter has so many techniques compiled, they never truly master a single form. This means they're often mediocre at several different forms. Sure, it makes them dangerous and they can lunge elbows and fists at their opponent after they pick them up by the waist and throw them to the ground in the same fashion over and over again but how will that help him against men who literally balanced themselves onto spears and force their necks against spearheads?

These men can slash bricks in half with the mere force of the side of their hand. You said a few good punches could take down a Shaolin Monk. If you've studied the art, you'd know that's untrue. They bash each other with wooden poles that are inches thick and break them on each others head and face for endurance.

This is a small example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qHL2PSpecI&feature=related

This is a few minutes of training that occurs all day long.

The "twenty minutes" thing was an exaggeration but their training in minuscule in comparison with training of beginner Monks. It's really no comparison.

I never said a Shoalin monk would fall from a few good punches, I said a trained boxer could land three punches in the time it takes a Shoalin monk to execute some form. Though a good boxer could likely KO one out with three solid hits.

Again, you're taking quantity over quality. Training for 15 hours a day in mostly useless (in a real fight) technics pales in comparison to training 4 hours in moves that all work (in a fight) and have been proven to work.

I've seen plenty of Shoalin monk feats, they are incredible athletes, but so was Bruce Lee, yet Chuck Liddell, Rany Coutre, Matt Hughes, PJ Penn and George Saint Pierre would have destroyed him and Shoalin monks.

Edit: Just watched that vid, Mike Tyson at his peak would have KO'd every single one of those fools in 10 seconds, then collected their ears, for a necklace.

Originally posted by Robtard
I never said a Shoalin monk would fall from a few good punches, I said a trained boxer could land three punches in the time it takes a Shoalin monk to execute some form. Though a good boxer could likely KO one out with three solid hits.

Again, you're taking quantity over quality. Training for 15 hours a day in mostly useless (in a real fight) technics pales in comparison to training 4 hours in moves that all work (in a fight) and have been proven to work.

I've seen plenty of Shoalin monk feats, they are incredible athletes, but so was Bruce Lee, yet Chuck Liddell, Rany Coutre, Matt Hughes, PJ Penn and George Saint Pierre would have destroyed him and Shoalin monks.

Edit: Just watched that vid, Mike Tyson at his peak would have KO'd every single one of those fools in 10 seconds, then collected their ears, for a necklace.

✅ Then he'd eat their children's hearts.

(There endurance feats never covered taking hooks, uppercuts and overhand rights from 1972-1973 George Foreman.)

Have a look at Foreman/Frazier I or Foreman hitting that bag in Zaire.....those shaolins would be destroyed.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
✅ Then he'd eat their children's hearts.

They're monks, they don't ****, at least not women. Praise be Allah, though.

Originally posted by Robtard
They're monks, they don't ****, at least not women. Praise be Allah, though.

Shaolin monks can't have sex? No wonder they developed a way of kicking ass.

Ah in that case he would direclty proceed to eating their limbs wihich would be easy the second after either Big George or 80s Tyson has destroyed their torso with a bunch of sledgehammer hooks to the body.

Tyson would have had the speed to close range on a Shaolin Monk back in the day also.

They might even ingest their own testicles....

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Shaolin monks can't have sex? No wonder they developed a way of kicking ass.

Really depends of the school/monastery, but many don't, something about abstinence leading to a path of enlightenment and spiritual oneness. I don't know, they're Chinese.

Originally posted by Robtard
I never said a Shoalin monk would fall from a few good punches, I said a trained boxer could land three punches in the time it takes a Shoalin monk to execute some form. Though a good boxer could likely KO one out with three solid hits.

Okay, once again, the boxer needs to reach the Monk first. Monks have exceptional deflection skills and maintain distance. Their distance control is compared to that of the Krav Maga distance control. The styles are different but the distance control techniques are similar. The only thing that isn't parallel is the Shaolin Monk can utilize DC effectively with a single opponent. This means that the boxer has thrown three hits into air and probably has a footprint on his face by that point.

Again, you're taking quantity over quality. Training for 15 hours a day in mostly useless (in a real fight) technics pales in comparison to training 4 hours in moves that all work (in a fight) and have been proven to work.

Wait, the Shaolin Monks haven't proven their techniques work? They fight competitively in sanctioned and unsanctioned matches. What is wrong with you, Robtard. The only thing useless is the UFC Sport training compared to the Monks training. It never ends. They constantly train. You cannot compare a job to someone who treats the art as if it is his entire composition. This isn't like comparing a pile of rotten candy to a few good ones. Your analysis of quality > quantity is shit in this scenario.

The fact that Shaolin Monks train longer gives them a larger opportunity to master their techniques and also to learn more.

Do you think the Shaolin Monks just train to dance? They're not practitioners of ballet. They're born fighting machines, are trained as children and grow into MA machines.

I've seen plenty of Shoalin monk feats, they are incredible athletes, but so was Bruce Lee, yet Chuck Liddell, Rany Coutre, Matt Hughes, PJ Penn and George Saint Pierre would have destroyed him and Shoalin monks.

Oh my god. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

It's the other way around, Robtard. That is what you're failing to understand. UFC Fighters practice a sport. THEY are the athletes. Bruce Lee trained himself to subdue, defeat and destroy his opponents. Shaolin Monks are trained in a similar fashion.

I mean, MMA is listed as a combat sport. These fighters fight with rules, boundaries and are trained and chiseled in that specific manners. Shaolin Monks are trained without boundaries or rules. They're taught to eliminate threats in a short amount of time and, on the contrary, are trained to endure fights if they happen to fail defeating their opponent within seconds.

Also, SKF is one of the oldest and deadliest martial arts. It has been mastered countless times and has influenced even the MMA sport itself. Although, MMA is just a watered down mixture of Martial Arts that is utilized to generate a sport. Nothing more.

Edit: Just watched that vid, Mike Tyson at his peak would have KO'd every single one of those fools in 10 seconds, then collected their ears, for a necklace.

That's an absurd statement.

(NOTE: I apologize for the double post. I won't be replying for five days due to a flight to Calgary I'll be taking. I will reply when I get back if you decide to continue our debate. Cheers!)

Originally posted by Nephthys
The title pretty much explains itself. This is a single guy and I don't want any 'any soldier who does his duty' BS, it has to be a real person.

Round one- Personal achievements only (no points for leadership or anything others did for him/her)
Round two- Unrestricted.

I think Sun Tzu, Alexander and Mohammed are the three greatest military minds that ever existed.

The problem with Shaolin is that it's almost entirely a striking style. Pretty much all mixed disciplines are superior to it in an actual fight due simply to the amount of control they give one over the opponent. An individual Shaolin monk could certainly win against a MMA fighter but due to endurance and fitness not a superior fighting style.

Not to mention that nearly all modern Shaolin monks train as performers, not as actual fighters.

Originally posted by Genesis
Okay, once again, the boxer needs to reach the Monk first. Monks have exceptional deflection skills and maintain distance. Their distance control is compared to that of the Krav Maga distance control. The styles are different but the distance control techniques are similar. The only thing that isn't parallel is the Shaolin Monk can utilize DC effectively with a single opponent. This means that the boxer has thrown three hits into air and probably has a footprint on his face by that point.

Wait, the Shaolin Monks haven't proven their techniques work? They fight competitively in sanctioned and unsanctioned matches. What is wrong with you, Robtard. The only thing useless is the UFC Sport training compared to the Monks training. It never ends. They constantly train. You cannot compare a job to someone who treats the art as if it is his entire composition. This isn't like comparing a pile of rotten candy to a few good ones. Your analysis of quality > quantity is shit in this scenario.

The fact that Shaolin Monks train longer gives them a larger opportunity to master their techniques and also to learn more.

Do you think the Shaolin Monks just train to dance? They're not practitioners of ballet. They're born fighting machines, are trained as children and grow into MA machines.

Oh my god. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

It's the other way around, Robtard. That is what you're failing to understand. UFC Fighters practice a sport. THEY are the athletes. Bruce Lee trained himself to subdue, defeat and destroy his opponents. Shaolin Monks are trained in a similar fashion.

I mean, MMA is listed as a combat sport. These fighters fight with rules, boundaries and are trained and chiseled in that specific manners. Shaolin Monks are trained without boundaries or rules. They're taught to eliminate threats in a short amount of time and, on the contrary, are trained to endure fights if they happen to fail defeating their opponent within seconds.

Also, SKF is one of the oldest and deadliest martial arts. It has been mastered countless times and has influenced even the MMA sport itself. Although, MMA is just a watered down mixture of Martial Arts that is utilized to generate a sport. Nothing more.

That's an absurd statement.

Boxers train to keep distance and close in when they're ready with the right strike. Surely an astute of fighting such as yourself knows this, as it's basic boxing?

Fighting for sport is historically against Shoalon discipline, they're monks first and taught themselves martial for the purposes of self defense from brigands while they travelled, they don't train for the sake of "kicking ass".

Show me where Shoalin technique has been proven? You claimed it, show it, matches etc. Because I have tons on modern MMA.

Mastering a technique that doesn't translate well into real time fighting is worthless. Being able to jump and throw a spinning kick is one thing, giving the board the ability to dodge and counter is another.

Saying that UFC guys don't train to destroy their opponents despite the more than ample video documentation, is what is ridiculous. You really think arm-bars, choking until submission and dropping elbows unto a mounted opponent isn't "destruction", really?

Listen, MMA fighters of today take what works best in fighting in the varied forms and apply it, do you think there's a reason you don't see a flying, spinning back kick in MMA often? I'll tell you, because it leaves you open. They take from boxing, Muy Thai, Jui Jit Su, Greco Roman Wrestling etc. why do you think there isn't any Shoalin adaptation, if it's supposed to be as unbeatable as you think? Just answer that.

No, thinking a boxer with Tyson's strength and speed wouldn't KO a bunch of 140 pound guys is rediculous. Have you seen footage of Tyson's punching and combination speed when he was peak? It's dizzying.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The problem with Shaolin is that it's almost entirely a striking style. Pretty much all mixed disciplines are superior to it in an actual fight due simply to the amount of control they give one over the opponent. An individual Shaolin monk could certainly win against a MMA fighter but due to endurance and fitness not a superior fighting style.

Not to mention that nearly all modern Shaolin monks train as performers, not as actual fighters.

While they certainly have a strikers chance, you really think their endurance is going to last them until the MMA fighter tires, lands a ko or gets a grapple more times than not? BTW, there are plenty of MA fighters who train vigorously in high altitude to boost their endurance.

Another good point.

Originally posted by Robtard
While they certainly have a strikers chance, you really think their endurance is going to last them until the MMA fighter tires, lands a ko or gets a grapple more times than not? BTW, there are plenty of MA fighters who train vigorously in high altitude to boost their endurance.

I think that for someone who's spent most of their life training like Shaolin monks supposedly did/do it would be possible. Then again I'm not an expert on combat or physiology.

Here's a good explanation of why Shaolin doesn't beat MMA.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090603022705AAs1yi8

Originally posted by Robtard
Boxers train to keep distance and close in when they're ready with the right strike. Surely an astute of fighting such as yourself knows this, as it's basic boxing?

Fighting for sport is historically against Shoalon discipline, they're monks first and taught themselves martial for the purposes of self defense from brigands while they travelled, they don't train for the sake of "kicking ass".

Show me where Shoalin technique has been proven? You claimed it, show it, matches etc. Because I have tons on modern MMA.

Mastering a technique that doesn't translate well into real time fighting is worthless. Being able to jump and throw a spinning kick is one thing, giving the board the ability to dodge and counter is another.

Saying that UFC guys don't train to destroy their opponents despite the more than ample video documentation, is what is ridiculous. You really think arm-bars, choking until submission and dropping elbows unto a mounted opponent isn't "destruction", really?

Listen, MMA fighters of today take what works best in fighting in the varied forms and apply it, do you think there's a reason you don't see a flying, spinning back kick in MMA often? I'll tell you, because it leaves you open. They take from boxing, Muy Thai, Jui Jit Su, Greco Roman Wrestling etc. why do you think there isn't any Shoalin adaptation, if it's supposed to be as unbeatable as you think? Just answer that.

No, thinking a boxer with Tyson's strength and speed wouldn't KO a bunch of 140 pound guys is rediculous. Have you seen footage of Tyson's punching and combination speed when he was peak? It's dizzying.

Indeed. The Shaolin Posse would do well to look up Spinks, Berbick, Holmes, Bruno and see what Tyson did to those 6ft3+ piles of 16-18 stone killing machines.

To question him banging out a welterweight is crazy.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Here's a good explanation of why Shaolin doesn't mean MMA.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090603022705AAs1yi8

Basically what I said above, just longer and far more detailed.

Originally posted by Robtard
They take from boxing, Muy Thai, Jui Jit Su, Greco Roman Wrestling etc. why do you think there isn't any Shoalin adaptation, if it's supposed to be as unbeatable as you think? Just answer that.

UFC fans like to think that Kung Fu is useless, just because no pro-fighter uses it. See, Kung Fu was made for warfare, not competive sport/fan-pleasing. It was intended for fending off multiple attackers with weapons. If four guys with baseball bats and broken bottles are coming at you, trying to put one of them in an armbar wouldn't be very smart. Monkey or Drunken would be more better for that situation.

Another reason why you don't see Kung Fu in UFC is because using nails is banned, which automatically shuts out a lot of Kung Fu styles. Look at Tiger, Dragon and Praying Mantis techniques; they're mosty fingers to the face and eyes.

Kung Fu isn't over two thousand years old for no reason.