Originally posted by Mindship
You're being modest. ✅ Every firefighter, eg, who's ever run into a burning building to save someone is indeed a hero.
Very true. How can people disagree with this because I sure as hell aint running in no burning building for ANYONE. If it was up to me, it'll be a lot of burned up people.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I wouldnt call us "heroes" we do no more than firefighters and police officers. We all get paid for our service. Just remember though that we keep the fight over there, so they wont bring it over here 😉
so your in iraq with access to the internet? i am guessing you are admin, working in a office and probably an Nco or Snco em i right? 😮
Originally posted by Sin I AMiraq declaring a full-scale war on freakin' america is pretty lulzy.
I wouldnt call us "heroes" we do no more than firefighters and police officers. We all get paid for our service. Just remember though that we keep the fight over there, so they wont bring it over here 😉
certain countries should be exempt from that tag line about "keeping "the fight" over there".
Originally posted by leonidas
they likely could pilot it if ss says they could. just no way they could pilot it anywhere near as fast. or do you think cap could fly the thing through an asteroid feild travelling ftl? i still haven't seen any of the instances you're talking about either.
If we're still going by perception. Yep, they could. Rulk had no problem doing it...and unless you are agreeing that Rulk has reflexes on par with Surfer or faster....
If we're going for realism, explain to me why his passengers don't turn to cosmic dust going into space at those speeds or why they can speak in the void of space?
As stated before, I've seen human characters dodge a lot better than SS ever has.
Originally posted by leonidas
so where are you going to set the limit on what he can react to and what are you going to base that limit on? becasue seeing/calculating BILLIONS of stars moving at the speeds ss does is a LUDICROUS feat, as is the other one goob showed.
I set the limit where the comics show the limits. We both know that comics authors don't always think things completely though BUT as they've shown SS flying on space with his board at great speeds, they've NEVER shown it on foot or in H2H combat.
Best yet, I will put you and the rest of the Surfer clan on a little challenge. Show 3 instances of Surfer fighting h2h at superspeeds in a clear battle off his board and we can put this silly notion to rest.
Originally posted by Avlon
If we're still going by perception. Yep, they could. Rulk had no problem doing it...and unless you are agreeing that Rulk has reflexes on par with Surfer or faster....If we're going for realism, explain to me why his passengers don't turn to cosmic dust going into space at those speeds or why they can speak in the void of space?
why don't they turn to dust? the same reason they don't simply fall off. ss protects them with his power. i've still never seen ANY of these instances you're talking about. where has someone other than the ss pilotted the board at ube speeds without ss being on it? and from your point of view you ARE saying that rulk has reflexes on par with him--or would if they were on foot . . . which i've never really understood. if he can dodge lasers at point-blank range on the board, what reason is there that he couldn't d so OFF the board?
As stated before, I've seen human characters dodge a lot better than SS ever has.
of course. me too. that's not the issue. the issue is given ss's powerset, his many-times-over proven perceptual/reactionary speeds is it ILLOGICAL to say he could react h2h at the speeds we're talking? given his feats and powers, imo no it is not illogical.
I set the limit where the comics show the limits. We both know that comics authors don't always think things completely though BUT as they've shown SS flying on space with his board at great speeds, they've NEVER shown it on foot or in H2H combat.
so i go back to my mailman example--you don't believe without seeing it that ss can react to an attack any faster or more accurately than my mailman could. if you deviate from that stance, you need to define a limit and explain why you've set the limit as you have. if you do believe he couldn't react any faster than my mailman then . . . umm
Best yet, I will put you and the rest of the Surfer clan on a little challenge. Show 3 instances of Surfer fighting h2h at superspeeds in a clear battle off his board and we can put this silly notion to rest.
not gonna happen, nor is that kind of unambiguous feat always necessary. if it WERE shown, it would be perfectly in line with his observed powerset.
ultimately, you'll win this discussion because there is NO proof to support what i and a couple others have been saying, and you're right to ask for proof. the lack of said proof however does not make our stance any less logical, nor does it change the fact that if it WERE shown, it wouldn't be anything less than what SHOULD be completely within plausibility.
Originally posted by leonidas
why don't they turn to dust? the same reason they don't simply fall off. ss protects them with his power.
You're assuming that SS protects them with his power. I prefer to call it by what it is.."suspension of disbelief."
Originally posted by leonidas
i've still never seen ANY of these instances you're talking about. where has someone other than the ss pilotted the board at ube speeds without ss being on it? and from your point of view you ARE saying that rulk has reflexes on par with him--or would if they were on foot . . . which i've never really understood. if he can dodge lasers at point-blank range on the board, what reason is there that he couldn't d so OFF the board?
Neither Rulk nor SS have shown Flash style blitzes off the board. However, on the board then navigate just fine. Hmmm...
Either they are simply navigating (like racecar drivers do..I'm sure no human normally runs at 200+ miles) or the authors simply haven't thought out all the details. Either way, SS having superspeed off the board is nothing but a board myth..
Originally posted by leonidas
of course. me too. that's not the issue. the issue is given ss's powerset, his many-times-over proven perceptual/reactionary speeds is it ILLOGICAL to say he could react h2h at the speeds we're talking? given his feats and powers, imo no it is not illogical.
A silvery guy flying in underwear on a silver board is illogical as is a spider bite giving you powers. It's comics. Suspension of disbelief yet again. If SS had these abilities, you or others wouldn't have to go around it trying to prove it so hard. Simply said... on panel trumps all. It's ILLOGICAL to ASSUME an ABILITY which HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN.
Originally posted by leonidas
so i go back to my mailman example--you don't believe without seeing it that ss can react to an attack any faster or more accurately than my mailman could. if you deviate from that stance, you need to define a limit and explain why you've set the limit as you have. if you do believe he couldn't react any faster than my mailman then . . . umm
I don't need to define anything that's not on panel Leo. The burden of proof of this is exactly on those who want it to be true. On panel the tale hasn't been told yet. Has Surfer displayed a versatile set of impressive abilities? Sure, has he shown what you are claiming? Not at all.
Originally posted by leonidas
not gonna happen, nor is that kind of unambiguous feat always necessary. if it WERE shown, it would be perfectly in line with his observed powerset.
Exactly why I am not even taking these debates that seriously anymore. People will believe what they want. My stance is simple. It's not on panel. It has to be assumed. 'Nuff said.
Originally posted by leonidas
ultimately, you'll win this discussion because there is NO proof to support what i and a couple others have been saying, and you're right to ask for proof. the lack of said proof however does not make our stance any less logical, nor does it change the fact that if it WERE shown, it wouldn't be anything less than what SHOULD be completely within plausibility.
Never said that you weren't logical old buddy, unfortunately a lot of writers AREN'T very logical and thus create these silly things that make us fans say "huh" because they don't make sense. We just have to play with the suspension of disbelief and hope for a good story.
Originally posted by Avlon
[B]You're assuming that SS protects them with his power. I prefer to call it by what it is.."suspension of disbelief."[/b/
nah. i assume because that is what i HAVE seen--i've seen ss order his board to carry alicia safely and i've seen him use his power to protect her (a couple different times) while she was on the board. what i've not seen is what you were saying--anyone aside from ss pilot the board WITHOUT ss's presence at uber speeds.
Neither Rulk nor SS have shown Flash style blitzes off the board. However, on the board then navigate just fine. Hmmm...
nor is ss shown to fly very often at all without it. in fact, there was a board myth that he NEEDED it to fly for a while. clearly not the case and that HAS been shown, only rarely.
Either they are simply navigating (like racecar drivers do..I'm sure no human normally runs at 200+ miles) or the authors simply haven't thought out all the details. Either way, SS having superspeed off the board is nothing but a board myth..
it's not really a myth since most don't believe it nor has it really ever been claimed often that i now of.
A silvery guy flying in underwear on a silver board is illogical as is a spider bite giving you powers. It's comics. Suspension of disbelief yet again. If SS had these abilities, you or others wouldn't have to go around it trying to prove it so hard. Simply said... on panel trumps all. It's ILLOGICAL to ASSUME an ABILITY which HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN.
careful with that line of thought because it can be taken to its logical conclusion and shown as the farce it can be. it's illogical to assume an ability that has no logical antecedent. there is an antecedent here, it's just not as solid as you or some (justifiably in this case) would like.
I don't need to define anything that's not on panel Leo. The burden of proof of this is exactly on those who want it to be true. On panel the tale hasn't been told yet. Has Surfer displayed a versatile set of impressive abilities? Sure, has he shown what you are claiming? Not at all.
again, you need to be careful with that 'i only believe in what i see' line of thought. in this case, if ss has not shown faster h2h speed than my mailman, it follows that you believe he has no faster h2h speed than my mailman. i know you don't believe that but you can't reconcile your desire for proof and your disbelief of that notion so you're left dodging my question. 😛
Exactly why I am not even taking these debates that seriously anymore. People will believe what they want. My stance is simple. It's not on panel. It has to be assumed. 'Nuff said.
i've never really taken ANY kmc debate all that seriously. well, there was that one time with masters . . . but again--not ALL claims needs unambiguous support. it depends on the claim.
Never said that you weren't logical old buddy, unfortunately a lot of writers AREN'T very logical and thus create these silly things that make us fans say "huh" because they don't make sense. We just have to play with the suspension of disbelief and hope for a good story.
it's ironic that you are requiring proof in order to suspend your disbelief. 🙂
anywho, as i said--(my fun with phil not withstanding--heh) ultimately, lack of proof leads one to say flash wins this particular form of engagement with ss, but i do think given his powerset and displayed feats, it isn't quite as clear-cut as some are suggesting.