Darth Caedus vs. Yoda

For the record I still give this Yoda.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
More raw power is debatable. Jacen is both the winner and loser of what you guys call CIS. He either gets destroyed by Luke with no visible effort, or he puts up one hell of a fight. Therefore it's very difficult to say Jacen rivals Yoda in any way and has a chance of surpassing Sidious if he only lived longer.

wait,what's CIS? Character Induced stupidity? I'm drawing a blank here.

I would certainly put Luke in a league higher then ROTS Yoda and Sidious by now. The 4v1 ambush is imo shows a variety of Caedus skills (from battle awareness to use offensive force) where he the only member of the team who knew the the true purpose of the ambush was Katarn. I don't see how he can't rival Yoda.

@Lightsnake

Speed? At what point has Caedus displayed skill or speed to Yoda;'s level?

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
For the record I still give this Yoda.

wait,what's CIS? Character Induced stupidity? I'm drawing a blank here.

I would certainly put Luke in a league higher then ROTS Yoda and Sidious by now. The 4v1 ambush is imo shows a variety of Caedus skills (from battle awareness to use offensive force) where he the only member of the team who knew the the true purpose of the ambush was Katarn. I don't see how he can't rival Yoda.

@Lightsnake

How about being able to compete with LOTF Luke, they were described as moving as blurs, unless you think Yoda is faster then Luke at this point, where Yoda is a "level" ahead of him.

CIS in terms of Jacen's power fluctuations. At one point he's getting manhandled by Luke who doesn't raise a finger. The next time he's fighting him head on. And him being able to compete with LOTF Luke doesn't put him above Yoda, if that's what you were implying.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
CIS in terms of Jacen's power fluctuations. At one point he's getting manhandled by Luke who doesn't raise a finger. The next time he's fighting him head on.

And him being able to compete with LOTF Luke doesn't put him above Yoda, if that's what you were implying.

For the record I(EH) still give this Yoda.

Originally posted by Gideon

Not that it matters, since as of 2 am local time this morning, the Versus forum has been officially defeated.

What do you mean?

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
For the record I still give this Yoda.

wait,what's CIS? Character Induced stupidity? I'm drawing a blank here.

I would certainly put Luke in a league higher then ROTS Yoda and Sidious by now. The 4v1 ambush is imo shows a variety of Caedus skills (from battle awareness to use offensive force) where he the only member of the team who knew the the true purpose of the ambush was Katarn. I don't see how he can't rival Yoda.

@Lightsnake

How about being able to compete with LOTF Luke, they were described as moving as blurs, unless you think Yoda is faster then Luke at this point, where Yoda is a "level" ahead of him.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
What do you mean?

@LS

All true points, i wish i had my copy of Inferno right now, but I wont until later tonight/tomorrow.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
@LS

All true points, i wish i had my copy of Inferno right now, but I wont until later tonight/tomorrow.

I have it, LS is right.

Originally posted by ares834
Well according to Advent there are no "established power charts" so therefore Coleman Trebor should have a 50/50 chance taking on Darth Caedus.

How does that make any sense, you dolt? Even if no "power charts" existed, that doesn't mean Luke doesn't have the showings to put Trebor to shame. When the hell did "power charts" existance influence the forum? Never would be the answer I'm looking for.

Originally posted by Advent
How does that make any sense, you dolt? Even if no "power charts" existed, that doesn't mean Luke doesn't have the showings to put Trebor to shame. When the hell did "power charts" existance influence the forum? Never would be the answer I'm looking for.

Originally posted by ares834
But how can I trust Luke's showings as "Some windows are a bit foggier than others".

What's "foggy" about Luke smashing people's faces in with the Force? What was "foggy" when Coleman Trebor got WTFpwned by a blaster bolt?

Showings of abilities, feats, are those windows that received a nice Cleanex washing.

Originally posted by Advent
What's "foggy" about Luke smashing people's faces in with the Force? What was "foggy" when Coleman Trebor got WTFpwned by a blaster bolt?

Showings of abilities, feats, are those windows that received a nice Cleanex washing.

Except there's nothing foggy when we see something happening or when we read about something happening.You're taking Chris Cerasi's quotes out of context. Your interpretation would be wrong then because the actual source would show you that it happened.

Originally posted by Advent
Except there's nothing foggy when we see something happening or when we read about something happening.You're taking Chris Cerasi's quotes out of context.

Originally posted by Advent
Except there's nothing foggy when we see something happening or when we read about something happening.You're taking Chris Cerasi's quotes out of context. Your interpretation would be wrong then because the actual source would show you that it happened.

Well, that's just the rub, innit? As you're wont to point out, most novelizations aren't written with a truly omniscient narrator; the narrator could still be wrong on how events pan out.

And the movie didn't show Coleman Trebor's obvious Force exhaustion that, in any other arena, would have led him to kill Count Dooku pretty quickly.

Unless Cerasi's statement referenced quotes specifically.

Did it?

Well, damn.

It doesn't.

"The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable."

Fascinating. Not only does it not make the distinction that this edict applies only to statements of relative power levels, but Mr. Cerasi's quote specifically notes the interpretation of events. Apparently it's all suspect, now.

"The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'"

Talk about ambiguity. "Nugget of truth," eh? And he provides us no possible way to sort through it all.

I guess it's all hyperbole and ambiguity!

Congratulations, Ares. You've won this argument; but Advent has won the war: she's broken the Versus forum.

Quite an accomplishment.

Originally posted by ares834
Am I. How am I taking it out of context? After all "the authors are making their interpretation of the character" meaning they can make them as powerful or as weak as they want.

Canon refers to an authoritative list of books that the Lucas Licensing editors consider an authentic part of the official Star Wars history. Our goal is to present a continuous and unified history of the Star Wars galaxy, insofar as that history does not conflict with, or undermine the meaning of Mr. Lucas's Star Wars saga of films and screenplays.

So, the authors have to follow guidelines. The authors are writing about history, meaning when they write down events, actions, etc. this is history. The interpretation of characters comes into play when the author decides to make the character do one thing or react a certain way in a situation.

Those interpretations would be perfectly acceptable canon. The events, the demonstrated abilities, etc. The questionable materials would be those windows like "most powrful evar" that are, in fact, "foggy". Contrary to Gideon's post, he doesn't need to specifically reference quotes. We already know that no character is looked to as being the definitive, must-be "most powrful evar" since Leland Chee confirmed there are no power charts of the mythos as a whole and it's possible for a Sith to become [past or future] more powerful than Sidious, for example.

Afterall " one character could become more powerful than another if an author chose" so Trebor could become more powerful than Luke.

Except everything we know about Coleman Trebor suggests otherwise. Meaning that author is likely writing an Infinity. Coleman Trebor has established canon behind him. He has a history and actions. An author making him "more powerful than Luke" wouldn't make sense with the continuity and what we know about him and Luke.

I'd be more than happy to refute that, if you want.

Then do it rather than parade around like a coxcomb.

You keep using that word coxcomb. I don't think it means what you think it means.