Originally posted by Acrosurge
They aren't standard. Sonic either has to collect them himself, or be in proximity to someone who uses their power. Such was the case in Sonic the Hedgehog when Sonic was brought back to life as Super Sonic.As for Sonic Unleashed, Sonic simply collected the emeralds prior to the opening sequence, much like the opening sequence of Sonic the Hedgehog 3, in which Knuckles knocks the Super out of Sonic with a single punch.
Don't get me wrong, Mario is fighting an uphill battle against Sonic's speed, but unless the OP states otherwise, the Chaos Emeralds aren't part of Sonic's standard gear. Likewise, neither are Mario's Super Stars.
They do come standard, in the Sonic The Hedgehog promo, he had the emeralds, and in Sonic Unleashed, he had the emeralds, he started off with them and there was no explanation that he gathered them just before the fight, the fight with him and Robotnik seemed more spontaneous than anything.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
This is why I still want a battlefield. The right battlefield would tip this in Mario's favor.I'm not sure Sonic can hit Mario.
How can he not hit him when he is vastly faster than him? The homing attack literally homes in on his opponent.
Also the light speed Miria was probably talking about is his move aptly dubbed the Light Speed Dash.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
If we're not given a battlefield, then don't we assume an arena setting? Why wouldn't Sonic be able to hit Mario under those conditions?I have to be honest, with just their standard abilities, I think Sonic takes this. His speed puts him over the top. Mario is strong enough to KO him, though, if he had some way to slow Sonic or trip him up. Luck maybe? Neither one has a significant durability advantage, IMO.
Add power ups and its a whole new ballgame.
Sonic fell from outerspace twice. Once in the end of Sonic 2, and once in Sonic Unleashed. He's durable enough to reenter the earth's atmosphere, Mario can't KO him.
Add power ups and Sonic stomps even harder, no ring limit in his super form.
Originally posted by Wei PhoenixSo, you're suggesting that Sonic could spontaneously become Super Sonic at any time during Sonic the Hedgehog?
They do come standard, in the Sonic The Hedgehog promo, he had the emeralds, and in Sonic Unleashed, he had the emeralds, he started off with them and there was no explanation that he gathered them just before the fight, the fight with him and Robotnik seemed more spontaneous than anything.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
So, you're suggesting that Sonic could spontaneously become Super Sonic at any time during Sonic the Hedgehog?
Sonic Unleashed he has them and it's at the start, and Unleashed is more current than Sonic. He also started out with them in 3. He hasn't had to collect them for a while IIRC.
Originally posted by Wei PhoenixIt really doesn't matter if Sonic has them at the start. They have to be collected in nearly every game, either as a part of the game or the storyline. They aren't a part of his standard power set, unless the OP says otherwise.
Sonic Unleashed he has them and it's at the start, and Unleashed is more current than Sonic. He also started out with them in 3. He hasn't had to collect them for a while IIRC.
As for Sonic Unleashed, Sonic could not transform into Super Sonic until he was given the emeralds back. It is the same in every game; Sonic must collect, or must be given access the Chaos Emeralds before he can transform into Super Sonic. They are not a part of him. They are a power up.
Originally posted by MooCowofJusticeI dunno if I would claim superior height for Mario's jumps. Sonic can jump quite high as well. We could do a pixel by pixel comparison in the case of the old platformers (Super Mario Allstars/Mario World vs Sonic 3 and Knuckles for instance). In some cases, Mario actually has inferior jumping height for single jumps (Super Mario 64 vs Sonic Adventure/2) for instance. I dunno that Super Mario Galaxy is a good measure of Mario's jumping abilities, due to the variable gravity on the planetoids concerned.
All Mario would have to be able to do is jump to avoid Sonic. I do not know of Sonic being able to jump anywhere near as high as Mario without the use of a spring. A simple spin would throw off the timing Sonic would use to hit Mario as he falls to a height Sonic can reach.
As far as game mechanics are concerned, I'm pretty sure Mario has better mid-air control of his jumps than Sonic does. So that's something.
Originally posted by MooCowofJusticeI think you'll find that Sonic also jumps quite high off Eggman's Egg Viper in Sonic Adventure. And I'm not sure that Brawl cuts it as a credible source for feats (much like the Marvel vs Capcom series).
I'm checking some Brawl cut scenes to find some of Mario's jumps.If you look up "Super Mario RPG: Bowser fight" or something similar though, you can see Mario jump VERY high off of Bowser's head.
The Plumber deserves his dues, no doubt. I just don't think he's leaps and bounds *shot for puns* above Sonic in that department.
Originally posted by MooCowofJusticeSame reason we don't use Mega Man's feats from Marvel vs Capcom. Its a crossover in which the characters' ordinary powers are bent or broken so that they be equal to other characters.
It's the same Mario. I don't get why the feats wouldn't work. I'll post vids later.
Sidenote: I must be crazy debating both sides of this debate. 😄
Originally posted by MooCowofJusticeIt contains different characters from different games and styles. It contains characters from outside Nintendo by your own admission. I'm not saying its completely invalid, just weaker evidence than something from Mario's series.
Brawl is not a crossover game. It's all Nintendo characters, except for Sonic and Snake.
Besides, does this point really matter to you so much? Mario has been in tons of games. Shouldn't you be able to prove his superior jumping power using his core games?
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
All Mario would have to be able to do is jump to avoid Sonic. I do not know of Sonic being able to jump anywhere near as high as Mario without the use of a spring. A simple spin would throw off the timing Sonic would use to hit Mario as he falls to a height Sonic can reach.
Mario isn't faster than Sonic nor is his reaction time on par with Sonic so that won't work. Homing attack him and he's done.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'm checking some Brawl cut scenes to find some of Mario's jumps.If you look up "Super Mario RPG: Bowser fight" or something similar though, you can see Mario jump VERY high off of Bowser's head.
Bowser's head is not in this fight and Bowser is in no way comparable to Sonic and Brawl is not canon to anything Mario does. Crossover game of all Nintendo characters.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
His games hardly have any cut scenes. Because Nintendo is cool like that.Super Mario RPG is his best core series jumping feat. And its actually really good.
His jumping feats have nothing on Sonic's speed and strength. Sonic is too fast for him and jumping on Sonic's head isn't going to do much but bounce him right off.
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Mario isn't faster than Sonic nor is his reaction time on par with Sonic so that won't work. Homing attack him and he's done.Bowser's head is not in this fight and Bowser is in no way comparable to Sonic and Brawl is not canon to anything Mario does. Crossover game of all Nintendo characters.
His jumping feats have nothing on Sonic's speed and strength. Sonic is too fast for him and jumping on Sonic's head isn't going to do much but bounce him right off.
It doesn't take a lot to jump. And I've yet to see any speed of Sonic's that Mario couldn't see and jump in time to avoid.
Bowser's head makes no difference. If anything it's more impressive because Bowser's head didn't springboard Mario. A head cannot do that.
Headbutting robots is not impressive as impressive as shattering bricks with your head.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It doesn't take a lot to jump. And I've yet to see any speed of Sonic's that Mario couldn't see and jump in time to avoid.Bowser's head makes no difference. If anything it's more impressive because Bowser's head didn't springboard Mario. A head cannot do that.
Headbutting robots is not impressive as impressive as shattering bricks with your head.
Bricks are harder than steel now? The sheer size of the robots are way more durable than bricks.
Show me some of Mario's best speed and reaction feats because I fail to see how he can keep up with Sonic. The fact that he could speed blitz the robots way before his chili dog fell back to the ground should suffice for his speed being way greater than Mario.
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Bricks are harder than steel now? The sheer size of the robots are way more durable than bricks.Show me some of Mario's best speed and reaction feats because I fail to see how he can keep up with Sonic. The fact that he could speed blitz the robots way before his chili dog fell back to the ground should suffice for his speed being way greater than Mario.
No, but shattering bricks with your head is more impressive than headbutting a robot.
K.
That is why Sonic cannot jump as high as Mario, and part of why the right battlefield would give Mario the win. Actually, that one's a better distance jump.
Mario height jump feat.
Mario's best foot speed feat. Not on par with Sonic, but it doesn't have to be.
Mario dodges lasers. Yoshi does some serious sprinting too.
0.02 and 1.20, Better Mario height jump. Not even in Brawl.