DE Sidious vs

I'm bored, so I'll do this.

When Luke blunts the sensitivity of ten thousand Jedi across a galaxy for decades,

We can't be sure how Sidious does that. In fact, considering that this had taken effect over 200 years, this would be hard to accredit it solely to him. And Luke has simultaneously contacted every jedi in the galaxy via telekinesis, which is the same in scale.

conjures a storm that can obliterate a fleet of state of the art ships "with a mere thought,"

And I believe Sidious himself says that that only takes a modicum of effort (power-wise). Simply knowing a technique that Luke doesn't isn't enough to put him above Luke force-wise. And Luke I believe can conjure an illusionary fleet of ships. Which is the same in scale. awermm

alters the alignment of planets without being present while simultaneously enslaving/draining the billions of inhabitants,

Again, nothing is known about how he actually does this. According to Byss and the Core Worlds, it was his 'dark side energies', which doesn't exactly give us enough information. Notwithstanding that Shaak Ti actually replicated this feat, turning felucia into a planet alive with the Force- 'So alive, in fact, that (everything on the planet) tapped into the Force as naturally as humans breathed oxygen'. Although of course she had more time in which to do this, but, judging from what the planet returns to after her death, she also had alot more resistence than Palpatine did.

and lastly serves as a focusing mechanism for the dark side of the Force, give me a jingle.

Jingle. I seem to recall Luke focusing the entire Lightside through himself when he fought Palpatine.

Right. And he wouldn't against the guy who has problems beating droidekas or random monks on distant worlds?

Well, if we're going by characters lowest feats then Palpatine got owned by Leia right before she stole his Holocron.

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't make me repeat myself. Or I'll have to go all Axl Rose on your ass, Slash.

😂

That always gets to you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm bored, so I'll do this.

Will you be bored as I tear your flesh from bone? 131

We can't be sure how Sidious does that.

His very existence. The Revenge of the Sith novelization explicitly accredits the feat to him.

In fact, considering that this had taken effect over 200 years, this would be hard to accredit it solely to him.

The Force had been in a state of flux since two hundred years prior to the Clone Wars; that does not mean that Jedi sensitivity was blunted.

And Luke has simultaneously contacted every jedi in the galaxy via telekinesis, which is the same in scale.

no

Luke went into a trance to contact a little over two hundred Jedi in order to recall them to Coruscant.

"Force call: A technique used by Luke Skywalker and the new Order of Jedi Knights that allowed a powerful Jedi to call out to other Jedi across a great distance. Depending on the strength and skill of the Jedi, the Force call could be made between star systems or -- in the case of Master Skywalker's call during the crisis with the Colony -- to all Jedi in the galaxy. It took a great deal of mental and physical effort to make such a call."

Calling =/= blunting Jedi sensitivity to the Force.

Two hundred Jedi =/= ten thousand Jedi.

Going into a trance/exuding great effort =/= managing to lead two highly active double lives, managing an intragalactic war, while simultaneously keeping one's own sensitivity to the Force a secret.

You win no points for this round.

And I believe Sidious himself says that that only takes a modicum of effort (power-wise).

Quote and source, plz.

Simply knowing a technique that Luke doesn't isn't enough to put him above Luke force-wise.

All we have are comparisons. When you can provide something that suggests Skywalker's command of the Force is greater than Sidious's, I will reconsider.

And Luke I believe can conjure an illusionary fleet of ships. Which is the same in scale. awermm

Making an (admittedly very powerful) enemy sense an illusionary fleet of ships =/= conjuring a tear in the space/time continuum that destroys a fleet of state-of-the-art ships equipped with shields capable of resisting gigatons of energy.

You, again, win no points for this round.

Again, nothing is known about how he actually does this. According to Byss and the Core Worlds, it was his 'dark side energies', which doesn't exactly give us enough information.

Explain how this matters. The article directly attributes the feat to him; if you have something suggesting that it's not a product of his energies, share.

Otherwise,'

Originally posted by Gideon
You, again, win no points for this round.

Notwithstanding that Shaak Ti actually replicated this feat, turning felucia into a planet alive with the Force- 'So alive, in fact, that (everything on the planet) tapped into the Force as naturally as humans breathed oxygen'.

All planets are connected to the Force. Shaak Ti, while being planetside for decades, managed to hold the darkness back.

That's it. Impressive, but not the same.

Although of course she had more time in which to do this, but, judging from what the planet returns to after her death, she also had alot more resistence than Palpatine did.

Quote and source, plz.

Jingle.

You've been disconnected.

😐

I seem to recall Luke focusing the entire Lightside through himself when he fought Palpatine.

He "manifested the power of the lightside" during one engagement. Palpatine did the same thing with the dark side his entire life. He was a dark side nexus, according to Dark Empire, which is a vergence of Force energy. The Return of the Jedi novelization says that the dark side was "diffused," "nondirected" with his death, which ultimately led to the fragmentation of the Empire.

There's a reason it took a prophecy and a Chosen One to kill this guy. And why his death balanced the Force.

Well, if we're going by characters lowest feats then Palpatine got owned by Leia right before she stole his Holocron.

Yep. And Han Solo shot him in the back.

When you tell me how this compares to an actual fight to the death in which Luke was prepared (as against the Hidden One and the droideka) and had assistance (Mara was present against the droideka), you let me know.

while admitting Luke hasn't done any of those things, I'm not convinced he couldn't, if he knew the techniques, and had the desire
.
Also, Shaak Ti is able to alter the alignment of a planet as well, so that maybe isn't as hard as it seems it would be.

lastly, i considered luke's struggle against the random monk more a testament to the ability of the monk, more than an indication of lukes weakness.

its really that whole technique vs. Ability thing i guess. Sidious obviously had more knowledge of the force, but luke hasn't ran across a technique he isn't capable of yet, so with the knowledge and motivation, i see no evidence that he would be UNABLE to accomplish what sidious did.

Finally, not to ask you to repeat yourself again Gideon, just putting my opinion why luke would win in combat: Its short: Luke's combat feats in the mythos do outweigh those of Sidious, he has shown more combat focused techniques than Sidious as well. He has been described as "perhaps the greatest lightsaber duelist ever". (NJO i'm pretty sure) by an omnipotent narrator, and lastly, as of Invincible, he has shatterpoint, which was Sidious's downfall against a much weaker force-user in Mace windu.

You're entering into the realm of utter speculation; a step beyond what is debated here.

Now, should Skywalker receive some accolade in upcoming books that contradict the following, I'll happily accept it. But the fact of the matter is that he has not demonstrated a mastery of the Force which comes close to the Emperor's own. And realistically, why should he? Because he's a Skywalker? Because he's got the potential to be more powerful than Palpatine in the Force?

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia removes all ambiguity from the argument: a high midichlorian count indicates a greater raw attunement to the Force than other Force users. But it does not, in any way, shape, or form mean that the person with great potential will become anyone truly special. Proficiency with the Force is attained only through training, meditation, and dedicated study.

Palpatine outstrips Luke in all three categories and he intentionally left the galaxy in such a state that Luke had scraps to work with. There's no wonder why Luke isn't in Palpatine's leage in Force command.

I am very confused with the midichlorian(sp?) thing because vader somewhat lost alot of midi's(hacked off limbs) hence his potential has been reduced severely.

What i don't get is if thats the case, how did obi wan tell that anakin had the highest count of midichlorians from a simple blood sample?

Confused!

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
I am very confused with the midichlorian(sp?) thing because vader somewhat lost alot of midi's(hacked off limbs) hence his potential has been reduced severely.

What i don't get is if thats the case, how did obi wan tell that anakin had the highest count of midichlorians from a simple blood sample?

Confused!

Originally posted by Gideon
[B]You're entering into the realm of utter speculation; a step beyond what is debated here.

But the fact of the matter is that he has not demonstrated a mastery of the Force which comes close to the Emperor's own.

QFT

The grandest scale of force might (and does mere scale necessitate more power?) shown by skywalker is arguably his cloaking of an entire planet to anyone that would stumble upon it with the echani cloaking technique. Or perhaps his manipulation of black holes. Any other feats that seem to be on a larger scale by Luke that I am missing?