ROTS Obi Wan & Anakin vs Dooku and Maul

Originally posted by Eminence
You do realize that the overwhelming majority of what transpires in the novel is contradicted in its entirety by the movie, right? The table throwing, wheel kicks, "defensive velocities," etc.

In which case he would no longer be considered "lightside."

As i already posted, on page 78 Anakin gives in to his anger. Anything before then is still light-side Anakin. Just because he is angsty doesn't make him dark-side. Anakin was born angsty.

You weren't here a month and a half ago when DS and I discussed 'Obi-Wan vs. Maul', but it's essentially the same situation; a Jedi calling on his rage has his abilities enhanced to levels beyond the norm. It's essentially a deus ex machina, and not applicable in a versus thread unless otherwise specified.

I can agree with that, however, I don't think it applied to Anakin until well into their duel.

Originally posted by truejedi
Anakin was toying with Dooku. That is made obvious in the novelization. He had his number all along. From page 70, 6th paragraph, the Jedi dominated Dooku.

Furthermore, Even lightside anakin frequently used anger to make him stronger. I'm not sure of a single duel where he didn't use his anger. So lightsided Anakin skywalker dominated Dooku.
Pg. 78, he completely gives into his anger, and then dispatches Dooku with ease, but he was still dominating him before he completely gave in.

There was a thermonuclear furnace where his heart should be, and it was burning through the firewalls of his Jedi training... He was half Sith already, and he didn't even know it. The boy had the gift of fury. And even know, hew as holding back... Dread, Dooku surmised, of himself. Of what might happen if he should ever allow that furnace to go supercritical. Dooku slipped aside from an overhand chop and sprang backwards. "I sense great fear in you..." Skywalker leapt for him again, and this time Dooku met met the boy's charge easily... Skywalker had lost his edge: a simple taunt was all that had been required to shift the focus of his attention from winning the fight to controlling his own emotions. The angrier he got, the more he afraid he became, and the fear fed his anger in turn.---pg. 666 of the Prequel Trilogy.

When Anakin is fully "Jedi", emotions controlled and all that crap, he's Dooku's equal. Perhaps even a bit less than him. But when he taps in to his fury and fear, he gains strength. And when he gains focused determination over his rage (teh z0ne):

But Palpatine's words rage is your weapon have given Anakin permission to unseal the shielding around his furnace heart, and all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in its flame... In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do. Decide. So he does. He decides to win.---pg. 669-670.

The kicker, as Eminence said, are the contradictions in the novels. In this scenario, a Light Side Anakin is a Jedi not feeding off of his fears, enabling a likely defeat at Dooku's hands.

Originally posted by truejedi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqKvKUTElA
1:44 No saber Lock. Watching that duel again convinced me even more so that Kenobi completely OWNED Grievous without the force. He dominates their saber duel.
(also backed up by the novel, which makes it even more lopsided. (pg. 295-296)

This has been such a refresher. Months and months of dribble from idiots and newbs have hindered me. But finally someone (one of the seniors, who'd have thunk it) offers a sound and sourced debate. This is the first time in a while that I had to go retrieve and open a source for clarification. Thank you.

truejedi
However, anything that the novel doesn't directly contradict is still canon.

truejedi
Another thought would be the combatants opinions of how the duels are going. Even though to us, the observer, it looks as though the Jedi are getting owned, The novel allows us the insight that Dooku was actually struggling for his life and on the verge of losing.

truejedi
As i already posted, on page 78 Anakin gives in to his anger.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I was wrong here, Dooku is not above Anakin. I managed to get my hands on a copy of the novel, and I think we can settle here that RotS Light Sided Anakin (the man of many moods) is equal to Dooku. When he begins tapping his fear, he gains momentum;

There was a thermonuclear furnace where his heart should be, and it was burning through the firewalls of his Jedi training... He was half Sith already, and he didn't even know it. The boy had the gift of fury. And even know, hew as holding back... Dread, Dooku surmised, of himself. Of what might happen if he should ever allow that furnace to go supercritical. Dooku slipped aside from an overhand chop and sprang backwards. "I sense great fear in you..." Skywalker leapt for him again, and this time Dooku met met the boy's charge easily... Skywalker had lost his edge: a simple taunt was all that had been required to shift the focus of his attention from winning the fight to controlling his own emotions. The angrier he got, the more he afraid he became, and the fear fed his anger in turn.---pg. 666 of the Prequel Trilogy.

When Anakin is fully "Jedi", emotions controlled and all that crap, he's Dooku's equal. Perhaps even a bit less than him. But when he taps in to his fury and fear, he gains strength. And when he gains focused determination over his rage (teh z0ne):

But Palpatine's words rage is your weapon have given Anakin permission to unseal the shielding around his furnace heart, and all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in its flame... In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do. Decide. So he does. He decides to win.---pg. 669-670.

The kicker, as Eminence said, are the contradictions in the novels. In this scenario, a Light Side Anakin is a Jedi not feeding off of his fears, enabling a likely defeat at Dooku's hands.

I misspoke again here about Grievous. You're right there was no saber lock. My point was more about how a Force push against Grievous wouldn't be the same as against Maul (precog. and Force-sensitivity).

This has been such a refresher. Months and months of dribble from idiots and newbs have hindered me. But finally someone (one of the seniors, who'd have thunk it) offers a sound and sourced debate. This is the first time in a while that I had to go retrieve and open a source for clarification. Thank you.

Thanks, i enjoyed it as well. It is refreshing to have a good discussion on star wars without either side necessarily feeling like they have to win to preserve their ego or something.