Herald’s of Galactus - Green Lantern Corp “Challenge”

Originally posted by Ambient
The scope of power the Starheart is on a level higher than the Odin power (can be debatable) however i think the energy (magical) manipulation part does not surpassed Surfer challenge, here's why; I don't think any GL can accomplish said so feat by itself, it requires a user with magical power/skills + the ring like Torque (ring + magic = this feat) kinda similar to the Atom/GL feat on the original thread in vs forum.. The PC on the other-hand not only sampled the Odin energy after it was remove but also combined that energy back to BRB's being (synthesized) and then made that sampled energy stronger (supercharged), I think that trumps sealing an unquantifiable magical energy with the ring and Torque magic, 2 separate types of power combined to accomplished that feat.. Just my 2 cents

Arguments can be made about Surfer and his feat with Beta Ray Bill. But I don’t feel like deluding into a pointless argument on schematics. But I am standing on my ground that it’s a pure GL feat, because there is no panel evidence to show that Torque applied anything but Oan energy, to seal a portion of the Starheart.

What makes this GL feat superior is, the real time event (in the heat of battle) and the scope of the feat (The Universe was being effected). If you disagree offer, a 3 neutral judges to vote on it.

Did he actually seal it in the heat of the battle? Because im not sure i saw any such indication there. Further is there a scan of the actual sealing process(to know if he made use of any outside aid/magic or solely GL energy)? cuz i notcied that the scan immediately prior to the end was missing from the sequence of pages. Another question id like to ask is what is the object/device that the starheart was sealed in? Did it play any part,enable or assist in the process somehow? Lastly we dont even know how big a portion of the starheart was sealed.

When we consider all the ambiguities of this starheart feat and then compare it to the surfer feat in which he was performing a greater level of manipulation (sampling,synthesizing and then supercharging as opposed to just sealing) on an equally great energy source (Odinforce) surfers feat is superior.

In regards to the judges i propose Leonidas,illadelph, and Raoul if they are willing.

Surfer needed to trick Odin into his scheme, of aiding Beta Ray Bill. Willingly Odin would not have aided or better yet landed his hand to the Surfer, leaving in question if Surfer can pull this off on his own in real time. If I remember correctly; This was all in effort to cure Beta Ray Bill from its disease, after having BRB’s portion of the Odin Forced removed.

On the other hand, we do not know if Torque sealed a smaller/greater portion of the Starheart. That’s fine. However that’s not the significance of the feat. What is significant, is that rampage was effecting the entire universe when it ruptured. And not even Spectre acted fast enough to do something about it. It was Torque who stepped in, and sealed a portion of it, enough to stop the rampage. This in effect, ceased the disorder across the universe, and restored balance.

This is the entire scene from beginning to end.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8932/glcorpsquarterly0743.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9386/glcorpsquarterly0744.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5065/glcorpsquarterly0746.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9383/glcorpsquarterly0747.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3098/glcorpsquarterly0748.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9421/glcorpsquarterly0749.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2682/glcorpsquarterly0750.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/49/glcorpsquarterly0751.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4951/glcorpsquarterly0752.jpg
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1148/glcorpsquarterly0753.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7190/glcorpsquarterly0755.jpg

If you want to claim, that outside force needed to accomplish said feat. Please point it out. Otherwise, Torque was a GL member at the time. And nothing suggests he used magic but Oan energy to accomplish said feat.

Leonidas, illadelph, and Raoul for judge's, Seems fair, I will give them a pm.

BTW - Expect big posts from me. Its becuse I am busy with real life shiz, and no longer have the luxry of free time to spend here.

- Id

Leonidos, -Pr-, illadelph12, have agreed to be judges. This is the challenge that's being disputed.

Challenge - High Level Magic Manipulation
Herald
Pending challenges, that need to be met by a GL.
Surfer manipulating high level magic
http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/KherubimBacklash/?action=view&current=CosmicPowersUnlimited05-08.jpg
http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/KherubimBacklash/?action=view&current=CosmicPowersUnlimited05-10.jpg

Green Lantern

Massive Magical feat.

All right. Members like to know about, outrageous feats. The conflicting and chaotic magic of the Starheart threaten the entire universe. Upon its release, it was felt across all dimensions within reality. Even the Spectre could not act fast enough, to preserve the universe from its cataclysm. It was a Green Lantern, that managed seal a portion of the Starheart. Enough to keep it from running too wild and causing any real trouble to farther threaten the stability of the universe.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8932/glcorpsquarterly0743.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9386/glcorpsquarterly0744.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5065/glcorpsquarterly0746.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9383/glcorpsquarterly0747.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3098/glcorpsquarterly0748.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9421/glcorpsquarterly0749.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2682/glcorpsquarterly0750.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/49/glcorpsquarterly0751.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4951/glcorpsquarterly0752.jpg
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1148/glcorpsquarterly0753.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7190/glcorpsquarterly0755.jpg

Originally posted by Ambient
The scope of power the Starheart is on a level higher than the Odin power (can be debatable) however i think the energy (magical) manipulation part does not surpassed Surfer challenge, here's why; I don't think any GL can accomplish said so feat by itself, it requires a user with magical power/skills + the ring like Torque (ring + magic = this feat) kinda similar to the Atom/GL feat on the original thread in vs forum.. The PC on the other-hand not only sampled the Odin energy after it was remove but also combined that energy back to BRB's being (synthesized) and then made that sampled energy stronger (supercharged), I think that trumps sealing an unquantifiable magical energy with the ring and Torque magic, 2 separate types of power combined to accomplished that feat.. Just my 2 cents

Originally posted by id369
Arguments can be made about Surfer and his feat with Beta Ray Bill. But I don’t feel like deluding into a pointless argument on schematics. But I am standing on my ground that it’s a pure GL feat, because there is no panel evidence to show that Torque applied anything but Oan energy, to seal a portion of the Starheart.

What makes this GL feat superior is, the real time event (in the heat of battle) and the scope of the feat (The Universe was being effected). If you disagree offer, a 3 neutral judges to vote on it.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Did he actually seal it in the heat of the battle? Because im not sure i saw any such indication there. Further is there a scan of the actual sealing process(to know if he made use of any outside aid/magic or solely GL energy)? cuz i notcied that the scan immediately prior to the end was missing from the sequence of pages. Another question id like to ask is what is the object/device that the starheart was sealed in? Did it play any part,enable or assist in the process somehow? Lastly we dont even know how big a portion of the starheart was sealed.

When we consider all the ambiguities of this starheart feat and then compare it to the surfer feat in which he was performing a greater level of manipulation (sampling,synthesizing and then supercharging as opposed to just sealing) on an equally great energy source (Odinforce) surfers feat is superior.

In regards to the judges i propose Leonidas,illadelph, and Raoul if they are willing.

Originally posted by id369
Surfer needed to trick Odin into his scheme, of aiding Beta Ray Bill. Willingly Odin would not have aided or better yet landed his hand to the Surfer, leaving in question if Surfer can pull this off on his own in real time. If I remember correctly; This was all in effort to cure Beta Ray Bill from its disease, after having BRB’s portion of the Odin Forced removed.

On the other hand, we do not know if Torque sealed a smaller/greater portion of the Starheart. That’s fine. However that’s not the significance of the feat. What is significant, is that rampage was effecting the entire universe when it ruptured. And not even Spectre acted fast enough to do something about it. It was Torque who stepped in, and sealed a portion of it, enough to stop the rampage. This in effect, ceased the disorder across the universe, and restored balance.

If you want to claim, that outside force needed to accomplish said feat. Please point it out. Otherwise, Torque was a GL member at the time. And nothing suggests he used magic but Oan energy to accomplish said feat.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The Fallen One can manipulate black matter, have any GL's done that?

Oblivion creates a massive Quasar that feeds off the Dark Matter of the universe. Given a short period of time, it threaten to collapse the Universe itself.
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0522/Circle_of_Fire_2_27
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0408/Circle_of_Fire_2_28

Originally posted by id369
Surfer needed to trick Odin into his scheme, of aiding Beta Ray Bill. Willingly Odin would not have aided or better yet landed his hand to the Surfer, leaving in question if Surfer can pull this off on his own in real time. If I remember correctly; This was all in effort to cure Beta Ray Bill from its disease, after having BRB’s portion of the Odin Forced removed.

I've got to get back to work.. Ill finish later, if i've got something to add..

Originally posted by id369
Surfer needed to trick Odin into his scheme, of aiding Beta Ray Bill. Willingly Odin would not have aided or better yet landed his hand to the Surfer, leaving in question if Surfer can pull this off on his own in real time. If I remember correctly; This was all in effort to cure Beta Ray Bill from its disease, after having BRB’s portion of the Odin Forced removed.

On the other hand, we do not know if Torque sealed a smaller/greater portion of the Starheart. That’s fine. However that’s not the significance of the feat. What is significant, is that rampage was effecting the entire universe when it ruptured. And not even Spectre acted fast enough to do something about it. It was Torque who stepped in, and sealed a portion of it, enough to stop the rampage. This in effect, ceased the disorder across the universe, and restored balance.

This is the entire scene from beginning to end.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8932/glcorpsquarterly0743.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9386/glcorpsquarterly0744.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5065/glcorpsquarterly0746.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9383/glcorpsquarterly0747.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3098/glcorpsquarterly0748.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9421/glcorpsquarterly0749.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2682/glcorpsquarterly0750.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/49/glcorpsquarterly0751.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4951/glcorpsquarterly0752.jpg
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1148/glcorpsquarterly0753.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7190/glcorpsquarterly0755.jpg

If you want to claim, that outside force needed to accomplish said feat. Please point it out. Otherwise, Torque was a GL member at the time. And nothing suggests he used magic but Oan energy to accomplish said feat.

Actually Odin had absolutely nothing to do with the feat. It was ALL surfers own power that acomplished it. The only reason he had to trick Odin was because Odin wouldnt have allowed him to do so if he had known about it. Initially Odin had physically restrained surfer from doing anything to Beta ray bill when surfer suggested that he might succeed where Odin had failed. Furthermore Odin didnt actually aid surfer in the process. Heck he initially had no idea what surfer even did. The entire process of sampling,synthesizing and supercharging the Odin force was all surfer.

Further the questions i raised were very valid. The sealing process took place off panel apparently and so we dont even know how it was sealed or if he made use of outside aid of any kind. . Was the object the starheart was sealed in a gl construct (i didnt see any such indication) or was it something else? Then did it aid in the sealing process?. Further when u say that the spectre didnt act fast enough to do something about it, are u saying that the spectre was UNABLE to perform the same feat performed by torque or that he simply didnt act on time? They are two entirely different things.

As i said before, the surfer feat involves a much greater process of manipulation (sampling,supercharging and synthesizing) as opposed to sealing (which in itself happened off panel. When u then consider that the Odin force is a comparable energy source to the starheart and that the GL feat has alot of ambiguities as well then the Surfer feat is superior.

read the feat, and am mulling it over. how soon do you need an answer?

Right now, dammit!

Originally posted by -Pr-
read the feat, and am mulling it over. how soon do you need an answer?

i'll reread it again tomorrow and post a decision.

imo, as regards the "magic manipulation challenge" ss's feat>gl feat. ss's feat demonstrated a more in-depth manipulation. the gl feat is ambiguous in a couple ways. we don't know how much was sealed, we didn't see the actual FEAT of sealing, just the result. torque also has a background in magic. did it play a part? maybe not, but it can't be simply ignored either, imo.

that's not to say both feats aren't impressive, just that the ss's feat is a more direct example of MANIPULATING magical energy, imo.

Sorry for the missing scan. I guess Image shack did not, upload the entire set.

Torque succeeded where Spectre had failed.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1885/glcorpsquarterly0754.jpg

Granted Surfer did more. However, the Scope of Torque’s feat is far greater due to the fact, that these energies where running wild and ambient across the Universe. Regardless if it was smaller/greater portion of the magic energy sealed. It stopped universal cataclysm where a high powered cosmic character had failed.

Here is the entire thing again, with the missing scan.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8932/glcorpsquarterly0743.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9386/glcorpsquarterly0744.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5065/glcorpsquarterly0746.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9383/glcorpsquarterly0747.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3098/glcorpsquarterly0748.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9421/glcorpsquarterly0749.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2682/glcorpsquarterly0750.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/49/glcorpsquarterly0751.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4951/glcorpsquarterly0752.jpg
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1148/glcorpsquarterly0753.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1885/glcorpsquarterly0754.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7190/glcorpsquarterly0755.jpg

Originally posted by Naija boy

Further the questions i raised were very valid. The sealing process took place off panel apparently and so we dont even know how it was sealed or if he made use of outside aid of any kind. . Was the object the starheart was sealed in a gl construct (i didnt see any such indication) or was it something else? Then did it aid in the sealing process?. Further when u say that the spectre didnt act fast enough to do something about it, are u saying that the spectre was UNABLE to perform the same feat performed by torque or that he simply didnt act on time? They are two entirely different things.

Its difficult to say, if Spectre was unable to act out on time or unable to replicate the same feat. The scan narrates, him unable to act as fast. But it also narrates and visualizes that Spectre at the moment embodied the universe similar to Eternity.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1885/glcorpsquarterly0754.jpg

According to Torque, that’s the object that holds the Starheart. The object looks like a standard green construct, GL’s use to seal energy.

Originally posted by Ambient
I dont think it really make a diff. if he tricked Odin, what matters is the actual feat and that would be the way Surfer tampered with the Odin power after it was removed from Bill, to which i think is a better energy manipulation feat than that of the Starheart Gl feat; The process in the manipulation is more indepth and far better explained than say sealing a portion of an energy by putting it inside an orb construct made by a GL..
Now dont get me wrong, im not trying to downplay the starheart feat. It is very impressive because of what that power, its just basically like taking a sample and putting it inside an orb in comparison to Surfer feat. taking a sample putting it in a living being but even going farther by supercharging it, a far better manipulation of energy..

I've got to get back to work.. Ill finish later, if i've got something to add..

The Starheart is a combination of various magical energies. Both Chaotic and Conflicting energies. The significance is not simply putting energy in the green orb. it’s the fact, that these energies where let loose and already effecting reality as a hole.

Look at the pic, its already twisting reality.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1885/glcorpsquarterly0754.jpg

Torque effectively sealed enough to restore balance.
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7190/glcorpsquarterly0755.jpg

Originally posted by id369
Sorry for the missing scan. I guess Image shack did not, upload the entire set.

Torque succeeded where Spectre had failed.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1885/glcorpsquarterly0754.jpg

Granted Surfer did more. However, the Scope of Torque’s feat is far greater due to the fact, that these energies where running wild and ambient across the Universe. Regardless if it was smaller/greater portion of the magic energy sealed. It stopped universal cataclysm where a high powered cosmic character had failed.

Here is the entire thing again, with the missing scan.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8932/glcorpsquarterly0743.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9386/glcorpsquarterly0744.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5065/glcorpsquarterly0746.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9383/glcorpsquarterly0747.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3098/glcorpsquarterly0748.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9421/glcorpsquarterly0749.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2682/glcorpsquarterly0750.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/49/glcorpsquarterly0751.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4951/glcorpsquarterly0752.jpg
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1148/glcorpsquarterly0753.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1885/glcorpsquarterly0754.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7190/glcorpsquarterly0755.jpg

The feat, took off panel.

Its difficult to say, if Spectre was unable to act out on time or unable to replicate the same feat. The scan narrates, him unable to act as fast. But it also narrates and visualizes that Spectre at the moment embodied the universe similar to Eternity.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1885/glcorpsquarterly0754.jpg

After seeing the scan its pretty clear that Spectre simply didnt act on time not that he couldnt replicate torques feat. Infact that was never shown or suggested anywhere. Therefore to say that Torque succeded where spectre failed is highly innaccurate. We can see even from the statement made by torque "its too late the magic is loose" that he is referring to actions that would be made to stop the starheart from rupturing.It had nothing to do with spectre, or any other of the beings who were mentioned, ability to control the starheart energies after they were released.

Now in regards to the scope, the Odin force has been shown to affect reality on a multiversal scale so it is indeed an energy source on the same level as the starheart. When we then consider that the level of actual manipulation involved as well as the fact that the actual sealing process was not shown nor do we know how much of the energy was sealed then id surfers feat is superior. Also in regards to this thread, torque apparently has a background in magic (as mentioned by leo) which should be further taken into account since we are trying to guage solely the power of Oan energy. This further strengthens surfers case.

You know the rest of the magic is still loose yet reality is still intact, it was only chaotic when the entity (Starheart)/consciousness was present but after it vanished and the magic poured into the universe nothing really happened, infact Sentinel even stated that when it does appear (consciousness returns) or something evil rise from it, he will be there to face it.. So what I'm trying to get at is maybe it lies dormant when no one or the entity/consciousness is controlling it therefore the magic that's sealed in the orb by Torgue is senile 😱 , i meant not dangerous..

Whats in question is really not about which one is the higher scope of power Starheart/Odin power but rather the manipulation of energy in which i think you agree the Surfers process was more in-dept..

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/18...arterly0754.jpg

I think that's the dimension where the Starheart is sealed being twisted before it finally broke not DC reality..

Originally posted by Naija boy
After seeing the scan its pretty clear that Spectre simply didnt act on time not that he couldnt replicate torques feat. Infact that was never shown or suggested anywhere. Therefore to say that Torque succeded where spectre failed is highly innaccurate.

i agree completely with this.

Luckily this is a Herald/Green Lantern Challenge in general, not simply narrowed down to individual’s. Of course, back ground knowledge will benefit a Green Lantern. I believe the same can be said about Heralds. The Green Lanterns are not Omniscient, but the manipulation of magic through Oan energy is well within reason if you understand it, and will it. How do you think the Starheart was collected in the first place? You often hear, that Green Lanterns are only limited by personal will, and imagination. However background knowledge, is often brought up to execute said feat. As in the case, with Kilo schooling Kyle in accelerated mutation, thanks to Kilo background in genetics.
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0177/Untitled-Scanned-07

My point is, I would not try to short sell a GL’s feat due to back ground knowledge.

Regardless of the fact, if you deem Starheart equal to Odin. You cant take away, what happened. And that was to cease universal cataclysm, by sealing a portion of it. That is massive real time feat. Maybe not as versatile, but massive.

Originally posted by Ambient
So what I'm trying to get at is maybe it lies dormant when no one or the entity/consciousness is controlling it therefore the magic that's sealed in the orb by Torgue is senile 😱 , i meant not dangerous..

Vary doubtful, ripples where already effecting reality.
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9383/glcorpsquarterly0747.jpg

The entire selling point of the plot, is the cataclysm following the rapture of the starheart. Or else, Alan would not have worried about his family back on Earth. Or the need for Torque to seal any of the Starheart.

Edit - I did not plan on getting too invovlved. Figgured I would only act as the score keeper. But I want to bump these becuse I am out of time.

Originally posted by darthgoober
This isn't a huge feat but I was interested to see if any GL's have done anything similar.

Surfer creates a fire that will never burn out(so he basically creates a low level perpetual energy source)...

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7131/silversurfer05p49eternagv2.jpg

The Energy Matrix should hold, the ring fused glass molecules for years to come.
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0177/Untitled-Scanned-07

Originally posted by darthgoober
The Fallen One can manipulate black matter, have any GL's done that?

Yes and here is the

Challenge.
Dark Matter Manipulation

Green Lantern

Oblivion creates a massive Quasar that feeds off the Dark Matter of the universe. Given a short period of time, it threaten to collapse the Universe itself.
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0522/Circle_of_Fire_2_27
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0408/Circle_of_Fire_2_28

The fallen one can manipulate dark matter but dobtfull if he can do it to that extent..

Question: Can Kyle even come close to that potential now? Specially since alot of circumstances changed within the GL corps..