http://www.eucantina.net/interview-with-drew-k
From the interview with Drew it seems that we will never get a full picture of Revan or his skills. Revan is a servant of light and darkness. I have an idea of what that means. I wish they would clarify his character.
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
We know he defeated Malak, and was standing over him with a lightsaber. But we don't know the specifics of the fight, he may have used mines or grenades. I am sure he's more powerful than Malak, but people may argue he didn't beat him fair and square.
The mines and grenades argument is one of the most retarded concepts ever to be put forward by the SWVF's finest.
"Hey Malak, what's up? Give me a second will you while I set up these mines! Even though we are probably fighting at speeds faster than the eye can blink on a supercharged dark side space station!"
"Hey Malak, can you not repulse my grenades with the Force even though you could probably easily dodge them anyways?"
See my point? I think one can assume within reason that Revan went toe to toe with Malak and beat him.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The mines and grenades argument is one of the most retarded concepts ever to be put forward by the SWVF's finest."Hey Malak, what's up? Give me a second will you while I set up these mines! Even though we are probably fighting at speeds faster than the eye can blink on a supercharged dark side space station!"
"Hey Malak, can you not repulse my grenades with the Force even though you could probably easily dodge them anyways?"
See my point? I think one can assume within reason that Revan went toe to toe with Malak and beat him.
i disagree. the sheer fact that grenades do splash damage means that the chances of him being able to simply TK them away without getting damaged is highly improbable. not everyone is so idiotic as to just toss a grenade at someone and wait for them to throw it back ala Force Unleashed and jedi outcast.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The mines and grenades argument is one of the most retarded concepts ever to be put forward by the SWVF's finest."Hey Malak, what's up? Give me a second will you while I set up these mines! Even though we are probably fighting at speeds faster than the eye can blink on a supercharged dark side space station!"
"Hey Malak, can you not repulse my grenades with the Force even though you could probably easily dodge them anyways?"
See my point? I think one can assume within reason that Revan went toe to toe with Malak and beat him.
That's it exactly, how far can someone go with logical reasoning and treating something as a fact without it being proven.
Wookieepedia is a pro at this: [About the Dantooine Jedi during the Star Forge fight] 'It was not enough to defeat Revan, however. He freed as many Jedi as he could and allowed them to become one with the Force, shortening Malak’s supply of energy.'
Who says Revan freed as many Jedi as possible. Who says he wasn't just being cocky and didn't free as many Jedi as he could. Who says Revan didn't pull a sneaky move and shot Malak with a blaster when he was distracted and then finished him off with a lightsaber.
It's not because most Star Wars duels are straight forward (using lightsabers and the Force), that this one was.
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i disagree. the sheer fact that grenades do splash damage means that the chances of him being able to simply TK them away without getting damaged is highly improbable. not everyone is so idiotic as to just toss a grenade at someone and wait for them to throw it back ala Force Unleashed and jedi outcast.
Alright... I'm going to ask you do something before you post. I'm going to ask you to think before you post. Malak is a Sith Lord of considerable power. Now, I ask you, do you think he can move fast enough to avoid a grenade? Do you think he could Force Push a grenade away rather easily? Go on, think about it.
That's it exactly, how far can someone go with logical reasoning and treating something as a fact without it being proven.
I'm not treating anything as fact, I'm saying it is a reasonable assumption that Revan and Malak went at with sabers and Force.
Wookieepedia is a pro at this: [About the Dantooine Jedi during the Star Forge fight] 'It was not enough to defeat Revan, however. He freed as many Jedi as he could and allowed them to become one with the Force, shortening Malak’s supply of energy.'
I could care less what Wookipeedia said, I didn't say it, some random dude placed it in the article. Address my points, not the Wooki's.
Who says Revan freed as many Jedi as possible. Who says he wasn't just being cocky and didn't free as many Jedi as he could. Who says Revan didn't pull a sneaky move and shot Malak with a blaster when he was distracted and then finished him off with a lightsaber.
We have more evidence and reason to assume that Revan and Malak had your typical grassroots duel then to think that Revan would just whip out a blaster and shoot Malak, which also assumes Malak is going to fail and block a blaster bolt etc. In this you suddenly create more variables than there were to begin with, looking for a more complex explanation than is necessary.
It's not because most Star Wars duels are straight forward (using lightsabers and the Force), that this one was.
Your correct, but we have more reason to think it was than to think otherwise. Occam's Razor FTW.
Originally posted by Autokrat
I'm not treating anything as fact, I'm saying it is a reasonable assumption that Revan and Malak went at with sabers and Force.
I wasn't saying you were treating it as fact. Notice how I never said the word you.
I'm just looking for the line between what's proven (facts) and logical deduction.
I could care less what Wookipeedia said, I didn't say it, some random dude placed it in the article. Address my points, not the Wooki's.
I was using this as an example of how people, not you, were stretching that line and automatically converting this logical deduction to a fact. Thus using that in Versus debates, which is why I do not like Revan being used in fights.
We have more evidence and reason to assume that Revan and Malak had your typical grassroots duel then to think that Revan would just whip out a blaster and shoot Malak, which also assumes Malak is going to fail and block a blaster bolt etc. In this you suddenly create more variables than there were to begin with, looking for a more complex explanation than is necessary.
I'm curious, what exactly is all this evidence?
There were fights in Star Wars that weren't normal. Like how Obi-Wan defeated Grievous, with a blaster, or when he beat Maul. He didn't beat Maul because he was better, but because Maul got cocky (imagine if you knew nothing of them and were only told that Obi-Wan beat Maul, maybe you'd think that Obi-Wan was better.) Maybe something similar happened on the Star Forge, maybe not, we just don't know. You can't choose for the simplest explanation, because you just don't know how exactly the fight occurred.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The mines and grenades argument is one of the most retarded concepts ever to be put forward by the SWVF's finest."Hey Malak, what's up? Give me a second will you while I set up these mines! Even though we are probably fighting at speeds faster than the eye can blink on a supercharged dark side space station!"
"Hey Malak, can you not repulse my grenades with the Force even though you could probably easily dodge them anyways?"
See my point? I think one can assume within reason that Revan went toe to toe with Malak and beat him.
problem with that, he could have went stealth, SNUCK around the room, setting the mines. Sounds stupid, but within the SAME framework of the game that gave us the Malak vs. Revan fight (Malak is an unknown too, btw, so its all moot...) it is possible to do just that.
Oh, and he didn't necessarly beat the Echani. That was optional. You could leave without doing that.
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
That's it exactly, how far can someone go with logical reasoning and treating something as a fact without it being proven.Wookieepedia is a pro at this: [About the Dantooine Jedi during the Star Forge fight] 'It was not enough to defeat Revan, however. He freed as many Jedi as he could and allowed them to become one with the Force, shortening Malak’s supply of energy.'
Who says Revan freed as many Jedi as possible. Who says he wasn't just being cocky and didn't free as many Jedi as he could. Who says Revan didn't pull a sneaky move and shot Malak with a blaster when he was distracted and then finished him off with a lightsaber.
It's not because most Star Wars duels are straight forward (using lightsabers and the Force), that this one was.
i know when i played it, i never bothered freeing the Jedi. I used the time that he was using recharging to heal myself with med packs (or w/e they were called in that game) and force abilities. So its obviouslly not a fact. Its why i hate people who try to quote wikipedia and wookipedia as fact. Show us the SOURCE that wookipedia got it from, and then i'll believe you.
Originally posted by Autokrat
Alright... I'm going to ask you do something before you post. I'm going to ask you to think before you post. Malak is a Sith Lord of considerable power. Now, I ask you, do you think he can move fast enough to avoid a grenade? Do you think he could Force Push a grenade away rather easily? Go on, think about it.I'm not treating anything as fact, I'm saying it is a reasonable assumption that Revan and Malak went at with sabers and Force.
I could care less what Wookipeedia said, I didn't say it, some random dude placed it in the article. Address my points, not the Wooki's.
We have more evidence and reason to assume that Revan and Malak had your typical grassroots duel then to think that Revan would just whip out a blaster and shoot Malak, which also assumes Malak is going to fail and block a blaster bolt etc. In this you suddenly create more variables than there were to begin with, looking for a more complex explanation than is necessary.
Your correct, but we have more reason to think it was than to think otherwise. Occam's Razor FTW.
yes, we all BELIEVE it was a straigtforward duel. Of course we do. We all BELIEVE that Revan was a sith of INCREDIBLE power. No one in their right mind actually thinks otherwise. However, unless there is PROOF of how it went down, u can't use his victory over malak as an accolade for Revan. ESPECIALLY since we have NO IDEA how powerful Malak was in the force either. make sense?
oh, and srry about the trip post. I kept finding more things to reply too in the thread.
Originally posted by truejedi
yes, we all BELIEVE it was a straigtforward duel. Of course we do. We all BELIEVE that Revan was a sith of INCREDIBLE power. No one in their right mind actually thinks otherwise. However, unless there is PROOF of how it went down, u can't use his victory over malak as an accolade for Revan. ESPECIALLY since we have NO IDEA how powerful Malak was in the force either. make sense?
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
You can't choose for the simplest explanation, because you just don't know how exactly the fight occurred.
And I don’t know that there isn’t an indestructible teacup floating around a binary star system in a galaxy on the other end of the ever expanding universe.
I’m trying to come up with a reasonable explanation for what probably happened based on very limited information. I have no reason to assume that it was anything but a straight forward duel, whereas I have reason to make the assumption that it was a straight forward duel. Based on the location (no place to hide), the image we have (of Revan standing above Malak with lightsaber drawn), and the fact that you have to talk to Malak no matter what, I’d say we can safely say that Revan and Malak went ahead and duked it out.
Originally posted by truejedi
problem with that, he could have went stealth, SNUCK around the room, setting the mines. Sounds stupid, but within the SAME framework of the game that gave us the Malak vs. Revan fight (Malak is an unknown too, btw, so its all moot...) it is possible to do just that.
You are thinking within the frame of the game, I am not. I am trying to look at it from a realistic perspective. The idea that Revan clicks on his stealth belt and just waltzes in there undetected, setting up mines is inane and you would never see it happen if they ever showed a canonical version of the duel. Ergo I think it’s safe to say that it was a straight up fight. Obviously there is no “empirical” evidence to prove this; I’m making a rational assumption about what probably happened. I don't see how that invalidates using the duel.
My point here is that Revan is not a complete unknown. A complete unknown is one of the random Dark Jedi assailants you encounter in the games, or one of the nameless Sith Assassins. We don’t know enough about Revan to use him vs fights, but we do know enough to say that he was obviously a powerful Sith Lord who possessed considerable knowledge of the Dark Side. This is all I’m trying to say.
Originally posted by AutokratWell yeah, we all know that. But even someone like him may feel the need to lob a grenade at someone or avoid being seen.
We don’t know enough about Revan to use him vs fights, but we do know enough to say that he was obviously a powerful Sith Lord who possessed considerable knowledge of the Dark Side. This is all I’m trying to say.
And I don’t know that there isn’t an indestructible teacup floating around a binary star system in a galaxy on the other end of the ever expanding universe.
No. Parsimony doesn't work on individuals, especially in Star Wars. Will of the Force, remember? Lampshaded by something about Malak falling from the sky & not batting an eyelash?
That said,
We don’t know enough about Revan to use him vs fights, but we do know enough to say that he was obviously a powerful Sith Lord who possessed considerable knowledge of the Dark Side.
Originally posted by Autokrat
Alright... I'm going to ask you do something before you post.
I'm going to ask you to think before you post.
im going to ask you to calm down before you make a further ass out of yourself, Mr. Bale. 😐
Malak is a Sith Lord of considerable power. Now, I ask you, do you think he can move fast enough to avoid a grenade?
no i dont think he can travel 30 feet which is the usual range of shrapnel released from a grenade, in under a second.
Do you think he could Force Push a grenade away rather easily? Go on, think about it.
i dont if he can force push away a bunch of razor sharp shrapnel.
but i do know that grenades can be cooked so that they explode a second or two after being thrown and i do know that it would be possible for revan to create a distraction that would prevent malak from pushing away a grenade in time. the revan I played was smart like that.
Occam's Razor FTW. [/B]
Occam's Razor is a contradiction of logic itself. i dont know why people insist on using it.