Revan strengths

Originally posted by Kotor3
Sidious killed his Master in his sleep and we do not know the circumstances behind that or how powerful Sidious was at the time of him doing so. Sill you would not call Sidious weak. Sidious tried to run from Yoda, was defeated by Mace in ROTS. Still you would not call Sidious weak why because of quotes stating him as the most sith.

In Kotor the only known person out of thousands of Sith and Jedi that could defeat Malak was Revan. Malak losing to Revan who could not be defected in his era does not show him to be weak or average. All evidence such as the force techniques that Malak displayed shows him to be a Sith Lord of considerable power.

I kind of agree with you, but the way you said this was weird. You cannot compare Sidious to Revan, because Sidious has incredible feats besides those quotes. Revan and Malak just have that number 1 and 2 thing going on.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I kind of agree with you, but the way you said this was weird. You cannot compare Sidious to Revan, because Sidious has incredible feats besides those quotes. Revan and Malak just have that number 1 and 2 thing going on.

I understand your point. I personally do not know of that many great feats for Sidious as of ROTS. The point I am making is that Sidious as of ROTS we know is powerful because of the quotes stating so and the way he is portrayed in the movies.

The same in terms of quotes and the way the characters (Revan and Malak) are portrayed in Kotor can be said of Revan and Malak.

Your point is wrong. (Unless I'm not reading you right, in which case: my bad!)

Revan and Malak are given a great deal of exposition and not a lot of action. That is, with Revan especially, we are told that they are 'greats' without having it proved to us. Sidious is a different case. Sidious is shown to have a very great degree of mastery (clouding a bajillion Jedi and darkening Coruscant) and skill (vs Yoda). He is also the target of accolades, but his claim to fame does not rest solely upon them. The situations are a bit different.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Your point is wrong. (Unless I'm not reading you right, in which case: my bad!)

Revan and Malak are given a great deal of exposition and not a lot of action. That is, with Revan especially, we are told that they are 'greats' without having it proved to us. Sidious is a different case. Sidious is shown to have a very great degree of mastery (clouding a bajillion Jedi and darkening Coruscant) and skill (vs Yoda). He is also the target of accolades, but his claim to fame does not rest solely upon them. The situations are a bit different.

Going back to the original question as to why a post was made stating that Malak was a sith lord of considerable power? Simply put that is the way his character was portrayed in Kotor. The same can be said of Marka Ragnos and Freedom Nadd who are considered to be sith lords of considerable power.

Before any quotes or feats from DE and ROTS came out for Sidious we knew he was very powerful just by the way he was portrayed in ROTJ. No difference for Revan or Malak, in Kotor they were portrayed as powerful Sith Lords of considerable power.

Originally posted by Kotor3
This is not a discussion about Sidious and Revan. Your statement is correct but not on point. I only used Sidious as an example to show that the way Malak overthrew Revan is not an good example for someone to use to make a point that Malak was not powerful. Also Sidious’s actions support the point I am making.

Going back to the original question as to why a post was made stating that Malak was a sith lord of considerable power? Simply put that is the way his character was portrayed in Kotor. The same can be said of Marka Ragnos and Freedom Nadd who are considered to be sith lords of considerable power.

Before any quotes or feats from DE and ROTS came out for Sidious we knew he was very powerful just by the way he was portrayed in ROTJ. No difference for Revan or Malak, in Kotor they were portrayed as powerful Sith Lords of considerable power.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What are you talking about? We don't claim that Revan or Malak aren't "powerful". We claim they have no feats to their name thereby rendering their use as versus combatants nonexistent.

Tell that to truejedi. Be honest, did you read any of the previous comments besides the last two?

I wish they gave Revan and Malak feats that could be applied. Then we would have more people to make fight.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Tell that to truejedi. Be honest, did you read any of the previous comments besides the last two?

Who on this entire tread was trying to give a definitive gauge for Revan or Malak's powers? The only two points that were made was that Revan and Malak are not complete unknowns and there is no reason to believe that the battle between Revan and Malak was fought any other way then we know a Jedi and Sith to fight.

Second, they both were powerful users of the force thus it makes no since to speculate that other devices were used in there battle since we have no indication of such.

youre wrong.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Sidious killed his Master in his sleep and we do not know the circumstances behind that or how powerful Sidious was at the time of him doing so. Sill you would not call Sidious weak. Sidious tried to run from Yoda, was defeated by Mace in ROTS. Still you would not call Sidious weak why because of quotes stating him as the most sith.
.

Are you serious? No one calls Sidious powerful BECAUSE he killed Plageuis in his sleep. People call Sidious powerful because of this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t508764.html

Geez. I personally believe Malak was pretty powerful. But I can't prove that. And i'm pointing out that you can't either, hence the very nature of an unknown.

It seems as thought maybe you have just watched the movies concerning sidiuos.

I am still open to be persuaded that Malak's abilities ARE provable, but you will have to do better than " You can't prove sidious was powerful," Because that has been done, many many many times.

just went past my edit time... grrr.

There are no quotes putting Malak on Par with Revan. 2nd, any quotes gauging revan's power are from IN-UNIVERSE characters as of KOTOR. They have no way of comparing him to anything but previous sith (which Kreia said were WAY MORE powerful than Revan) or current force users, of which we have no gauge.

Now, iF sidious was the most powerful sith of all time (multiple sources) and Revan was < Ancient Sith<Sidious and malak is <<< than REVAN. He has no real basis of comparitive power. I'm just asking for an anchor point. I don't blame you for being unable to provide one. I've looked for it myself. It doesn't exist.

No hard feelings, just enjoying the discussion.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Who on this entire tread was trying to give a definitive gauge for Revan or Malak's powers? The only two points that were made was that Revan and Malak are not complete unknowns and there is no reason to believe that the battle between Revan and Malak was fought any other way then we know a Jedi and Sith to fight.

Second, they both were powerful users of the force thus it makes no since to speculate that other devices were used in there battle since we have no indication of such.

Originally posted by truejedi
Are you serious? No one calls Sidious powerful BECAUSE he killed Plageuis in his sleep.

Originally posted by truejedi
Geez. I personally believe Malak was pretty powerful. But I can't prove that. And i'm pointing out that you can't either, hence the very nature of an unknown.

For the record I agree with Autokrat. I gave the example of Sidious in ROTJ. If no one knew anything about Star Wars and saw ROTJ no would disagree that Sidious was very powerful. Him as Master sith Lord was enough to derive that conclusion. I am saying the same can be said of Malak no matter how he took out Revan because that was the only person out of thousands of Siths and Jedi’s that he feared.

The problem here is you and some others keep looking for someone to compare Malak and Revan to so as to get a definitive answer as to there power level. Simple answer they were powerful. How powerful and how do they compare to other sith lords, well that is up for discussion and opinions hence why I made this thread.

Do you think Revan knew force drain, etc. Drew call Revan a servant of light and darkness. What does that mean? Do you feel Revan was different from any other Jedi? This is not a verses thread but one open for opinions.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I really do not know how you derive that I made this statement. I never made such a statement.

For the record I agree with Autokrat. I gave the example of Sidious in ROTJ. If no one knew anything about Star Wars and saw ROTJ no would disagree that Sidious was very powerful. Him as Master sith Lord was enough to derive that conclusion. I am saying the same can be said of Malak no matter how he took out Revan because that was the only person out of thousands of Siths and Jedi’s that he feared.

The problem here is you and some others keep looking for someone to compare Malak and Revan to so as to get a definitive answer as to there power level. Simple answer they were powerful. How powerful and how do they compare to other sith lords, well that is up for discussion and opinions hence why I made this thread.

Do you think Revan knew force drain, etc. Drew call Revan a servant of light and darkness. What does that mean? Do you feel Revan was different from any other Jedi? This is not a verses thread but one open for opinions.

fair enough! didn't mean to get too technical on ya.

I think Malak was a fighter who relied more on force techniques than saber combat. I also think he was a very dirty fighter (not uncommon for a Sith, but i don't think Revan was that way.) The reason i believe these two things are:
1. we never see Malak display ANY saber ability. His fight with revan would have been over in moments without the Jedi to drain, and the star forge. He chose to fire a ship at revan instead of trying to kill him personally. All we know is he had a saber at the end of the star forge fight, But.... there is no indication he was able to use it effectively.

2. His greatest actual feat (imo) was freezing Revan onboard the Leviathon (different ship?) This shows a considerable amount of ability, as did his ability to turn Bastilla to the dark side in a very short time.

If i actually had to give him an opinionated power level, i'd put him somewhere near Alema Rar... Powerful, but not comparitive to modern's or even the ancients.

And crap. Just realized this thread was about Revan, not malak. 😄

Revan would be, IMO, comparable to Bane, or for a modern, at least as strong as Dooku. (maybe not as good in combat.)

He would be one of those 3rd tier Sith. Sidious>Ancient Sith, Caedus, maybe Bane> Revan, Dooku, Maul, etc. That is of course, just an opinion, which is what you asked for.

I think Malak was a fighter who relied more on force techniques than saber combat. I also think he was a very dirty fighter (not uncommon for a Sith, but i don't think Revan was that way.) The reason i believe these two things are: 1. we never see Malak display ANY saber ability. His fight with revan would have been over in moments without the Jedi to drain, and the star forge. He chose to fire a ship at revan instead of trying to kill him personally. All we know is he had a saber at the end of the star forge fight, But.... there is no indication he was able to use it effectively.

Do we see any of the Sith in game rely solely on saber combat, except for the sissies you fight during the hunt for the Star Maps and the sissies in the Korriban Academy, (Female Character during some quest thing)?

It has been stated Malak was a Jedi Guardian prior to him becoming a Sith Lord. That means that he was first and foremost a saber combatant.

In any fight from the films, could any of you picture the resident bad guy running around draining captured Jedi? I sure as hell can't. That was probably just added for difficulty and for a more last-boss-battle feel.

Many of you guys' argument just scream about how little you've actually thought about it before posting it. That it not a comment about your intelligence, so don't get insulted.

While what feats we've seen from Malak aren't very major, mostly being the convertion of Bastila, we can't deny that he must have had some power compared to the other Sith and Jedi of his time.

As for Revan, and your pathetic arguments about him maybe stealthing and using mines and grenades. It has been stated that he went face to face with Yusanis and Mandalore the Ultimate, both skilled fighters.

Canderous stated that "You, Revan, are the single greatest warrior of this age, and any battle we fight will bring me honor." That coming from a man who went to become Mandalore is rather high praise. I think that Canderous knew what he was on about.

Also. Who thinks that he killed two Terentateks using stealth and mines?

And who votes for lightsaber(s) and Force Powers?

For the not-certain-if-Rev-used-lightsabers-argument, it is confirmed that he did. At least before his amnesia, as he ignites his saber in the vision where you see him get ready to fight Bastila and her boarding party.

He also uses the ready stance for Juyo in the same cutscene. That might be unintentional, though.

From what I've read about the new comic (Haven't actually read it), Revan doesn't seem like a grenade-hurling coward, and while it doesn't really focus on him and Malak, it does seem to back it up that he is a skilled fighter.

My take on Revan, though, especially in the versus forum, is that he 'becomes' an Unknown after his amnesia, seeing as he has no defined personality or feats except that which is stated as canon and obvious (Such as him being a light side male that killed Malak).

To use a metaphor to explain my take on Revan and Malak's situation as Sith, Revan found and ran with the ball, before Malak kicked him down from behind and ran himself, until he got punched in the face by Revan, who now was the goalkeeper.

As a last note--

Do you think Revan knew force drain, etc.

I think he knew Drain. When he searched Korriban, the amount of knowledge there was vast, and he also had access to the Trayus Academy on Malachor V.

Originally posted by Aklis
Do we see any of the Sith in game rely solely on saber combat, except for the sissies you fight during the hunt for the Star Maps and the sissies in the Korriban Academy, (Female Character during some quest thing)?

It has been stated Malak was a Jedi Guardian prior to him becoming a Sith Lord. That means that he was first and foremost a saber combatant.

In any fight from the films, could any of you picture the resident bad guy running around draining captured Jedi? I sure as hell can't. That was probably just added for difficulty and for a more last-boss-battle feel.

Many of you guys' argument just scream about how little you've actually thought about it before posting it. That it not a comment about your intelligence, so don't get insulted.

While what feats we've seen from Malak aren't very major, mostly being the convertion of Bastila, we can't deny that he must have had some power compared to the other Sith and Jedi of his time.

As for Revan, and your pathetic arguments about him maybe stealthing and using mines and grenades. It has been stated that he went face to face with Yusanis and Mandalore the Ultimate, both skilled fighters.

Canderous stated that "You, Revan, are the single greatest warrior of this age, and any battle we fight will bring me honor." That coming from a man who went to become Mandalore is rather high praise. I think that Canderous knew what he was on about.

Also. Who thinks that he killed two Terentateks using stealth and mines?

And who votes for lightsaber(s) and Force Powers?

For the not-certain-if-Rev-used-lightsabers-argument, it is confirmed that he did. At least before his amnesia, as he ignites his saber in the vision where you see him get ready to fight Bastila and her boarding party.

He also uses the ready stance for Juyo in the same cutscene. That might be unintentional, though.

From what I've read about the new comic (Haven't actually read it), Revan doesn't seem like a grenade-hurling coward, and while it doesn't really focus on him and Malak, it does seem to back it up that he is a skilled fighter.

My take on Revan, though, especially in the versus forum, is that he 'becomes' an Unknown after his amnesia, seeing as he has no defined personality or feats except that which is stated as canon and obvious (Such as him being a light side male that killed Malak).

To use a metaphor to explain my take on Revan and Malak's situation as Sith, Revan found and ran with the ball, before Malak kicked him down from behind and ran himself, until he got punched in the face by Revan, who now was the goalkeeper.

As a last note--

I think he knew Drain. When he searched Korriban, the amount of knowledge there was vast, and he also had access to the Trayus Academy on Malachor V.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Those who cite his victory over Malak as a clear gauge of Revan's standing forget (or purposefully overlook) the fact that Malak, Yusanis, Mandalore, and anyone else he fought, can not themselves be placed due to lack of inter-era comparisons and detailed canonical descriptions.

Point. I didn't, however, actually state how strong he was compared to say, Bane or Sidious, I just pointed things out about that he must have been fairly strong compared to others in his time.

Though, before Bane was confirmed to be the "Sith'ari", Revan was a candidate, which may (Though not possible to confirm due to lack of material) give us a clue as to his strength compared to other Sith Lords.

Eh, from what I remember of the Sith'ari thing, it doesn't actually take "The best, arooound. Nothing's ever gonna keep him down". Just someone who can get the job done---like Bane. Crafty little bugger.

From what I have saw about that legend, the Sith;ari is "a perfect being. Perfect strength, perfect......" Yuthura explains it in KOTOR.