well Wolverine stated that Ogun was faster then him and was kicking his @$$ up and down chasing Logan back in the day...mhmm
but, artist back in the 80's werent very dynamic in their artwork as the artist today.. judging by panel art Gorgon appears faster a lot faster then Ogun... so Gorgon appears to have the sword speed reflex over Ogun...
but, Ogun can hypnotize an opponent by waving his sword during battle so he has the sword skill over Gorgon...
skill can only help you so much before superhuman speed topples you.. i mean look at Mr. X example...
plus, wolverine has stated Gorgon is faster then him. so we know both are faster then Logan..umm
Those were pretty much my sentiments.
Gorgon's always looked to have some sort of speedster level of speed. I was just wondering if Ogun's skill and outworldy-ness would play a contributing factor in a duel between the two.
If I were a writer at Marvel, I'd pit these two against one another in a second. Looks like it'd be too much damned fun!
Mister X when QuickSilver beat his @$$.. not saying that Gorgon has the Superhuman speed to do that to Ogun just the speed to bypass a block or two from time to time.
the problem is that Marvel likes to pit a lot of new characters with Logan to establish skillset but then they fail to live up to those skillsets and fight ppl who never displayed any abilities equaling Logan which tarnishes Wolverine when guys like Gorgon begin their downward spiral to Rulk lvl Mediocrity.
it's the curse of once being the Best there is in Marvel and the need to build a rep for others....
back in the day few and i mean few could measure up to Logan in skills which is why back in the 80's early 90's the elite master swordsmen were Ogun, Wolverine, Shingen now you got everyone layin claim to it by retarded 1st time appearances and no established history.
Honestly, Gorgon when compared to a lot of Wolverine's rogue gallery and villains, isnt that dangerous nor unique. Gorgon's powerset isnt that special and actually was possessed by a "Lot" of Wolverine's enemies, minus the Gorgon stare. uggh
but, lets run down the list of Wolverine's enemies really nothin should make him that dangerous nor that superior.
Rapture(TP'er MA'er tech suit Precog)
Shingen(Master MA'er Pressure point practitioner)
Ogun(immortal, MA Master, TP'er, Sorceror etc etc).
Sabe(soup'ed up Logan, should eat Gorgon alive w/ada) no stare of course.
Bloodshadow(MA'er Pre cog)
Speed Demon( superhuman Speed,Blades)
Domina( Gorgon x10)
Rogue( phsyical attributes superior to Gorgon all around simply lacks MA skills and TP)
Psylocke(mind reader Pre cog, Ogun training, Tk amping phsyical tributes)
Death's head( superior all around over Gorgon)
i could go on and we could mix and match the skills and powers that some display equal or superior to Gorgon.. if ppl are goin to make a character make sure he is actually superior then the guy's average rogues...facepalm2
Also.....
Originally posted by King Castle
the problem is that Marvel likes to pit a lot of new characters with Logan to establish skillset but then they fail to live up to those skillsets and fight ppl who never displayed any abilities equaling Logan which tarnishes Wolverine when guys like Gorgon begin their downward spiral to Rulk lvl Mediocrity.
😂 Rulk level mediocrity! So true!
.... though I don't think Gorgon's there yet. Dude one shot Phobos in one of the most impressive sword duels I've seen in some time in comics.
Originally posted by King Castle
but, lets run down the list of Wolverine's enemies really nothin should make him that dangerous nor that superior.Rapture(TP'er MA'er tech suit Precog)
Shingen(Master MA'er Pressure point practitioner)
Ogun(immortal, MA Master, TP'er, Sorceror etc etc).
Sabe(soup'ed up Logan, should eat Gorgon alive w/ada) no stare of course.
Bloodshadow(MA'er Pre cog)
Speed Demon( superhuman Speed,Blades)
Domina( Gorgon x10)
Rogue( phsyical attributes superior to Gorgon all around simply lacks MA skills and TP)
Psylocke(mind reader Pre cog, Ogun training, Tk amping phsyical tributes)
Death's head( superior all around over Gorgon)i could go on and we could mix and match the skills and powers that some display equal or superior to Gorgon.. if ppl are goin to make a character make sure he is actually superior then the guy's average rogues...facepalm2
I'm not sure if I agree with these completely, we should make this a thread. It's intriguing.
Originally posted by King Castle
i mean you are the resident Wolverine expert, should Gorgon been able to defeat Logan with the powerset he has compared to Logan's history and Rogue Gallery?
I dunno. I think given the time the feat happened any Wolverine fan could easily dismiss that fight as being the result of Logan being a weaker fighter since he was missing half of his soul. No one could say differently.
The issue IMO lies in Millar's specific writing style. He leaves open a lot for ambiguity or tends to allow readers to piece parts of the puzzle for themselves for dramatic effect, even when he does give things away he does it in one panel or two which you might miss if you're not careful.
I think it wasn't til the second or third time I was thumbing through EOTS before I realized it was Elizabeth and Wolfgang in those opposing dialogue boxes telling Wolverine what to do.
Gorgon's no different. There, Millars writing style was even contradicting itself.
Listing Gorgon as a mere ninja master with class 2 strength? Oooooook?
Nevermind the fact that they also stated he was resurrected after being killed by rival gangs a little while before.... which seems like a pretty big deal to just noncholantly gloss over. What gangs where these? Was that after he got resurrected by the Hand after killing himself in the incident we saw on panel? Who knows! It's Millar time!
So what we know about Gorgon only comes from some semi-ambiguous fights making it hard to really figure out what the hell Wolverine was dealing with.
In terms of healing factor/damage soak: Gorgon looks like a standard Wolverine rogue there, with the ability to recover from any wound inflicted on him. But more than that it looked like nothing inflicted on him actually seemed to hurt him either. Which is pretty intimidating. Most of Wolverine's rogues can at least feel pain or register the effect of an attack on them, Gorgon barely muttered anything much less a scream when Wolverine and Elektra double teamed him. Beyond that.. what the hell was up with the green blood?
In terms of skill, we already know that TP can allow one to match top tier skill levels alone, that compounded with actual skill like Gorgon's and you have a Wolverine who's kicking himself in the ass for trying to match Gorgon's skill in a fight.
Strength... Millar said level 2.... I dunno about that. It certainly didn't look like level 2 but what it DID look like is anyone's guess.
Then there's his speed... Thing is Gorgon more than once in that arc looked like a damned speedster which would be one thing in and of itself.. but there's one panel.. one damned panel that changes EVERYTHING about how I saw that character.
When Gorgon has Elektra by the throat and she's attempting to plead with the SHIELD agents to shoot him he discusses how they speak at the speed of thought "here" and when he lets her go you see a little FX drawn around her head..
I may be talking out of complete ignorance here but for a second there, that looked a HELL of a lot like Gorgon's processing speed or ability to move/speak/think is actually outside of real time or displaced from it somehow, which makes things a LOT more interesting than just thinking he's really fast.
Kind of like how Elektra missed her sniper shot at Wolverine's head. Her bun barrel falls off and Gorgons standing 15/20 feet away from her no one standing there including herself even noticed him do it or realized he was there untill he spoke to them.
IMO the only think that's very suspect in that arc concerning Gorgon and Wolverine fighting one another was Wolverine's CIS. Just chop Gorgons' limbs off for god sakes!. Just cut of his damned head, or stab him in the face during the ambush.
But Wolverine being a generous sort with his claws in-comic is the standard for that lil guy. 😬
I'd say overall Gorgon definitely has the powerset to look like AT LEAST more of a threat than guys like Shingen, Silver Samurai, or Mr. X..... to me, Mr. X being able to compete AT ALL with Logan is a joke.
Wolverine should be able to just outpace him. Meh oh well.
i never liked X b/c his power wasnt anything logan hadnt faced before and overcome if not outright was shown to be immune.
at 1st it was easy to think X was more then peak human, he had to be in order to content with logan but, now that he has had more appearances he is just a peak human at best with slight TP/Pre Cog.pr1983
i mean how the hell could he compete with that powerset when others cant and are above X.
Psylocke(good/evil version).
Spiderman(pre cog/superior attributes)
Rapture
Bloodshadow
Brass
Ogun
Daredevil
I have gotten fed up with the Wolverine Character and his new rogues b/c they basically are being repeated in powerset but the new writers ignore or are ignorant of Wolverine's past villians with the same exact power and Wolverine's own powerset.
i mean how many times has logan have to be shown to be immune to certain lvl of telepathy?
X "if" we use his TP explanation shouldnt be able to read Wolverine period let alone keep up due to Logan's mental blocks, MA Mental training, Xavier Psi blocks.
Gorgon shouldnt have been able to read his mind either not unless he is at least a lvl 4 TP'er along the lines of Betsy/Cable early in their careers and even then Logan should be able in mid battle to shut them out.
The problem like you pointed out is the CIS more often PIS of a story and the character. Logan knowing or not knowing his enemy should stop slashing and stabbing at the torso and simply lop off limbs... but, if he does that the story would be over but that is how it should end regardless.
writers shouldnt be trying to write around the character and his powerset but simply build a character powerset and reason why Logan shouldnt be able to do certain things to them.
I know a lot of people like to see wolvie throw downs but they were getting old in the 80's early 90's which is why the hulk battles were the more interesting looked forward ones b/c we knew Logan even if he wanted or could kill hulk it would be an uphill or difficult process, same for Hulk and there would be no shame if Wolvie got ko'ed by Hulk or if Wolvie outlasted Hulk's attention span or manage to tire Hulk out....
While every hero seems to be improving in powers and villains the opposite tends to be true for Wolverine he is being scaled back to the level he was when he was studying with Ogun, giving him weaknesses and Ko'es that even at his lowest level before he knew he was a mutant was tanking through sheer grit.
you got Logan struggling to push off or lift a guy in a crystal armor who only weighs 1 ton.
Logan unable to Roll off a piece of "round" piller when we seen him lift giant debri as if it weight 5o lbs, kicking boulders like a football, gripping elevator cart, tossing motor cycles..
Let's Look at Gorgon when compared to:
Death's Head II
Shiva
these guys are adamantium resistant, high end healing factor, possesses his combat knowledge learning computer and other little toys...
Wolverine bypassed their durability by bringing it close quarter fighting, lopping off limbs... but, some how Logan couldnt think to do that to Gorgon knowing he is that dangerous ups to stay sword distance and when they attack him whether Gorgon allowed it or not... Logan goes for stabbing organs rather then decapitation?
i mean we seen him once he goes all out back in the day slicing himself three or 2 equal slices of meat coming off between his claws...
we have seen Logan slice heads clean off, arms, hands, Legs but the most dangerous opponent he has faced get's a clean shot he decides to stab?
this is why i no longer can stand writers and the character.. the dude has as much haters as superman and i cant blame them for hating disliking him.. it hurts to say it but writers are doing something wrong if they can put off a person who has collected Logan's stories for over 3 decades from his 1st appearance..
Originally posted by King Castle
but, lets run down the list of Wolverine's enemies really nothin should make him that dangerous nor that superior.Rapture(TP'er MA'er tech suit Precog)
so why did Logan struggle with a guy that is a copy of those he has already fought and overcome?
Gorgon's speed wasnt that superior and was negligible when compare to other's ability of misdirection, stealth, superhuman speed, teleportation, TP/Illusion casting. etc etc..
Gorgon has no where else to go but down and i think it's funny and sad that Phobo's is some how now superior by ABC of Gorgon..uggh
"oh, but Phobo's has superhuman speed and is a god, look he hit his father". (Sarcasm) "so clearly these three are all superior to Wolverine."pr1983
I think you all are seriously underating gorgon here. I honestly believe he is over the people that you all named and could defeat each and every last one of them in combat (except classic cyber).
All of gorgon powers kind of fit in together and I can actually see gorgon regenerating from having some limbs being cut off, especially with all of the damaged he healed from before.
Originally posted by King Castle
so why did Logan struggle with a guy that is a copy of those he has already fought and overcome?Gorgon's speed was that superior and was negligible when compare to other's ability of misdirection, stealth, superhuman speed, teleportation, TP/Illusion casting. etc etc..
Gorgon has no where else to but down and i think it's funny and say that Phobo's is some how now superior by ABC of Gorgon..uggh
"oh, but Phobo's has superhuman speed and is a god, look he hit his father". (Sarcasm) "so clearly these three are all superior to Wolverine."pr1983
Who has wolverine taken on that is like gorgon or superior?
Originally posted by carver9
I think you all are seriously underating gorgon here. I honestly believe he is over the people that you all named and could defeat each and every last one of them in combat (except classic cyber).All of gorgon powers kind of fit in together and I can actually see gorgon regenerating from having some limbs being cut off, especially with all of the damaged he healed from before.
Including a non toying around psylocke?
because that's one of them he mentioned
Originally posted by King Castle
so why did Logan struggle with a guy that is a copy of those he has already fought and overcome?Gorgon's speed wasnt that superior and was negligible when compare to other's ability of misdirection, stealth, superhuman speed, teleportation, TP/Illusion casting. etc etc..
Gorgon has no where else to go but down and i think it's funny and sad that Phobo's is some how now superior by ABC of Gorgon..uggh
"oh, but Phobo's has superhuman speed and is a god, look he hit his father". (Sarcasm) "so clearly these three are all superior to Wolverine."pr1983
Gorgon would rape stomp rapture.
I disagree man, he had some crazy as feats in secret warriors, he was able to out pace three bullets and then cut them all in haft...........