Originally posted by leonidasi think i agree with most of that
Originally posted by leonidasbut it just doesn't have much practical relevence.
Originally posted by leonidasdoes he have the CAPACITY to devour the universe or beyond? maybe, i guess. could he willingly do so whenever he chose to do so? based on all his showings, based on how weak we've seen him in the past, and how desperately he's needed to feed? no.
Galactus was literally feeding on the energies of Hyperspace through Hyperstorm,
which is a realm/dimension of its own that would've kept Galactus satiated forever.
Of course, in order to bring back Galactus to a meaninglful role in the Marvel Universe,
he disconnected himself from said source for some PIS reason.
This move by writers was obviously meant to keep Galactus interesting.
(remember, all powerful characters can become boring real quick,
this is why most don't last past a single arc)
Originally posted by leonidasat his weakest he's needed to be practically carried to a planet to regain his energy. why not just start absorbing the universe--even a small part of it to sustain himself?
If Galactus had no weakness on panel, he'd be boring,
it's only in a Forum setting where we can waive those comic book induced restrictions.
Originally posted by leonidasi've always sort of speculated that maybe he COULD absorb parts of the universe, but it simply wouldn't sustain him since it's not biospheric energy. doesn't really make sense since he's devoured dimensions though, so, i don't know.
But that aside, it could simply be like I said before, (most sensible reason imo)
the story ... Galactus is usually dealing with average superhoeroes,
so PIS is necessary,
otherwise he would vaporize them all on the first page,
like he did in a 'What If' (which was surprisingly a PIS free environment)
when he engages someone of significance,
writers loosen their grip on those comic book restrictions,
like when he battle the In-Betweener, or when he battled Ego,
or when he battled Aggy, who he stalemated withIN Aggy's dimension,
or Mephisto, which he ended up nearly absorbing Meph's entire pocket Universe.
Originally posted by leonidasdoes that mean everytime we see him near death it's because he CHOOSES to be that weak? is it all just PIS whenever he is weak? meh, i'd rather not say that.
Galactus should always have access to energy,
by simply absorbing reality (time/space and all inbetween)
which we know he can do.
Originally posted by leonidaswhat i DO know is that his hunger WAS altered by the celestial, that that version of galactus WAS changed, and hence what THAT version did and was capable of doing really has no bearing on what the normal galactus would/might do.
Originally posted by leonidashe may have the CAPACITY to absorb the universe+, but practically speaking (and for purposes of this match) that capacity is meaningless.
Everything I've posted is IMO, according to what I've known/read concerning Galactus.
Also, Galactus did create the next Marvel Universe in an alternate future,
with the infinite energies he contains withIN,
a would-be herald also claimed that Galactus contained a Cosmos withIN,
he literally returned to his natural state which was a Sun made up of infinite energy.
And beyond all this, Galan merged with the Infinity Being,
the creator of the original Omniverse,
this may be why its in Galactus' hands to create the Marvel Universe anew in the end.
Then again,
there are several stories attempting to descibe the end and rebirth of the Marvel Universe,
so who the heck knows.
Originally posted by Mr Master
🙂🙁 .. and I disagree.
I disagree, due to the Hyperstorm showing.
Galactus was literally feeding on the energies of Hyperspace through Hyperstorm,
which is a realm/dimension of its own that would've kept Galactus satiated forever.
Of course, in order to bring back Galactus to a meaninglful role in the Marvel Universe,
he disconnected himself from said source for some PIS reason.
This move by writers was obviously meant to keep Galactus interesting.
(remember, all powerful characters can become boring real quick,
this is why most don't last past a single arc)To make a story.
If Galactus had no weakness on panel, he'd be boring,
it's only in a Forum setting where we can waive those comic book induced restrictions.He could probably sunder a Universe inadvertantly by absorbing a portion of it,
so he chosses not to for the sake of that reality,
not saying that's the reason
but it is a plausible possibility considering Marvel's cosmological makeup.But that aside, it could simply be like I said before, (most sensible reason imo)
the story ... Galactus is usually dealing with average superhoeroes,
so PIS is necessary,
otherwise he would vaporize them all on the first page,
like he did in a 'What If' (which was surprisingly a PIS free environment)
when he engages someone of significance,
writers loosen their grip on those comic book restrictions,
like when he battle the In-Betweener, or when he battled Ego,
or when he battled Aggy, who he stalemated withIN Aggy's dimension,
or Mephisto, which he ended up nearly absorbing Meph's entire pocket Universe.It's PIS imo.
Galactus should always have access to energy,
by simply absorbing reality (time/space and all inbetween)
which we know he can do.His hunger was the same as it's always been. (insatiable and eternal)
It was his ability to stop himself that changed.
This is why in the Hyperstorm case he would have absorbed energy forever.Not imo,
since even 616 Galactus has sown on panel the ability to devour time-space,
and the ambient infinite energies of realms like Hyperspace.Everything I've posted is IMO, according to what I've known/read concerning Galactus.
Also, Galactus did create the next Marvel Universe in an alternate future,
with the infinite energies he contains withIN,
a would-be herald also claimed that Galactus contained a Cosmos withIN,
he literally returned to his natural state which was a Sun made up of infinite energy.And beyond all this, Galan merged with the Infinity Being,
the creator of the original Omniverse,
this may be why its in Galactus' hands to create the Marvel Universe anew in the end.Then again,
there are several stories attempting to descibe the end and rebirth of the Marvel Universe,
so who the heck knows.
that's FAR too much PIS for me to stomach. i don't think we can resort to PIS when something has been shown so many times. and it is part of galactus's character--if he doesn't feed on planets, he starves and dies. this is from the newest godhunter:
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9076/brb0307.jpg
"power is not the same as sustenence." so even if he COULD draw and absorb ambient energy, it wouldn't sustain him and he'd die. he could probably have absorbed mephisto's realm and not have been sustained at all. he also does not have an infinite source of energy (he used his "core energy" to sustain himself during annhilation)--or if he does, as i said earlier, it's irrelevent as he can't use it to sustain himself or even prevent his own death, as is again confirmed in the scan above.
interestingly enough, ss said if he did die, he would have taken out an area of the universe 42 light years wide, so clearly he does have energy reserves that he is unable to access--assuming ss was telling the truth, and not simply trying to gain bill's aid. but ss never mentioned anything about his becoming a sun, and obviously the energy wasn't infinite. so, either death of galactus has been retconned, or this newest stuff is wrong. can't really be both and i see no reason why death would take precedence over this newer material. 😬
Originally posted by leonidas
that's FAR too much PIS for me to stomach. i don't think we can resort to PIS when something has been shown so many times. and it is part of galactus's character--if he doesn't feed on planets, he starves and dies. this is from the newest godhunter:http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9076/brb0307.jpg
"power is not the same as sustenence." so even if he COULD draw and absorb ambient energy, it wouldn't sustain him and he'd die. he could probably have absorbed mephisto's realm and not have been sustained at all. he also does not have an infinite source of energy (he used his "core energy" to sustain himself during annhilation)--or if he does, as i said earlier, it's irrelevent as he can't use it to sustain himself or even prevent his own death, as is again confirmed in the scan above.
interestingly enough, ss said if he did die, he would have taken out an area of the universe 42 light years wide, so clearly he does have energy reserves that he is unable to access--assuming ss was telling the truth, and not simply trying to gain bill's aid. but ss never mentioned anything about his becoming a sun, and obviously the energy wasn't infinite. so, either death of galactus has been retconned, or this newest stuff is wrong. can't really be both and i see no reason why death would take precedence over this newer material. 😬
Originally posted by darthgoober
IDK leo... I agree with the whole "it can't always be PIS" in regards to things like Wolverine being able to take punches from major bricks, but when we're talking about the TRUE definition of PIS(when a character "forgets" that he has abilities at his disposal that will render the plot useless), frequency of occurrence doesn't seem to apply. For instance, Flash not using his speed as effectively against non-speedsters in comics is ALWAYS PIS. It doesn't matter how many times he DOESN'T effectively blitz his foe or is tagged by someone with virtually no super speed to speak of, we can't consider that valid on the forum regardless of how many times it happens. Marvel doesn't want to render Galactus useless as a character anymore than DC wants to do the same with Flash. Both companies want EVERY book to sell as much as possible, they're not going to throw in boring stories(like Galactus just sitting around or a Flash comic that only last two pages) that will gather dust on the shelves just so people people on the Internet can see that their past feats still apply.
it's a valid point, but one i don't subscribe to. in flash's case, it's IN CHARACTER for him not to blitz and hit everyone with an instant IMP. even on the forum, cis is in effect. if something happens consistently in any character, it becomes in character. that's not pis.
the galactus case is much different. there have only been a couple of times (relatively) where energy other than biosphereic energy has been proven to be able to sustain him. he even went so far as to try and gain the gems to eliminate his hunger. because it has been only a couple times, THOSE cases are more easily labelled pis. for instance--if g was starving (as he was in godhunter) and simply decided to start absorbing the space around him, or a star, and when he was done he was suddenly fine and fully powered, that showing would render all previous showings of him starving from lack of sustenence . . . meaningless. or if he suddenly started feeding on his own 'infinite' energy, that would also render all previous showings meaningless. not everything that doesn't make sense in a comicbook world needs to be labelled pis. consistency allows for suspension of disbelief and defines the character.
Galactus has absorbed a star's energy before... ermm
Also, here's a simple scan:
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/?action=view¤t=R26007.jpg
He absorbs planet's because it's such a concentration of huge energy. Not because that's all he can do. And absorbing a planet is easier than trying to absorb space when he's really starving, and not to mention, might not work/give enough energy off.
Originally posted by Blanket
Galactus has absorbed a star's energy before... ermmAlso, here's a simple scan:
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/?action=view¤t=R26007.jpgHe absorbs planet's because it's such a concentration of huge energy. Not because that's all he can do. And absorbing a planet is easier than trying to absorb space when he's really starving, and not to mention, might not work/give enough energy off.
a planet has more energy than a star? 😐
and i never said he couldn't absorb energy. i said that PRIMARILY throughout his history he absorbs energy from planets to sustain himself, and that without said energy, he dies. my scan shows and makes the distinction between what he can absorb, and what can grant him SUSTENENCE.
i do NOT think it's pis that he starves without planets since it has been consistently shown he needs a planet's biosphereic energy to survive. masters and goob seem to think any time he is starving and doesn't simply absorb . . . whatever is around him, it IS pis.
the debate is less about what he can absorb and more about what you consider pis.
Originally posted by leonidasI never said that. A planet is more plentiful though, and just saying he can absorb a star.
a planet has more energy than a star? 😐and i never said he couldn't absorb energy. i said that PRIMARILY throughout his history he absorbs energy from planets to sustain himself, and that without said energy, he dies. my scan shows and makes the distinction between what he can absorb, and what can grant him SUSTENENCE.
i do NOT think it's pis that he starves without planets since it has been consistently shown he needs a planet's biosphereic energy to survive. masters and goob seem to think any time he is starving and doesn't simply absorb . . . whatever is around him, it IS pis.
the debate is less about what he can absorb and more about what you consider pis.
Ya, because it's a massive source of energy that he's been used to throughout his career. He dies from a depletion of energy, that much has been made clear throughout his run.
It's an off hand comment that requires speculation, said by Surfer... over occurrences where he has been fed off random energy. 😬
I don't either.
Absorbing space would be impractical, and where there is stars, there is planets. If a planet can sustain him for a bit, then there's no use of absorbing a sun. Although, what I never got, is why doesn't he just clean out solar systems, but I guess he doesn't need to after he's fed.
PIS is subjective. It's pretty much solid as **** though that he can absorb almost any kind of energy, and feel fed though. The amount of energy needed though is another thing entirely.
My post was mostly in response to the 'THOSE cases are more easily labelled pis' thing.
Originally posted by leonidas
it's a valid point, but one i don't subscribe to. in flash's case, it's IN CHARACTER for him not to blitz and hit everyone with an instant IMP. even on the forum, cis is in effect. if something happens consistently in any character, it becomes in character. that's not pis.the galactus case is much different. there have only been a couple of times (relatively) where energy other than biosphereic energy has been proven to be able to sustain him. he even went so far as to try and gain the gems to eliminate his hunger. because it has been only a couple times, THOSE cases are more easily labelled pis. for instance--if g was starving (as he was in godhunter) and simply decided to start absorbing the space around him, or a star, and when he was done he was suddenly fine and fully powered, that showing would render all previous showings of him starving from lack of sustenence . . . meaningless. or if he suddenly started feeding on his own 'infinite' energy, that would also render all previous showings meaningless. not everything that doesn't make sense in a comicbook world needs to be labelled pis. consistency allows for suspension of disbelief and defines the character.
By the same token, since G has shown both the ability and inclination to absorb things other than planets for sustenance we should recognize that he has the ability to do so.
You might be able to make a case that his ability to absorb space itself is an instance of SMvF since he's only done it once, but he's pulled it off with stars too many times to ignore. He might PREFER biospheric energy(maybe it "taste" better) and might actually draw more power from since he uses a machine to increase his efficiently at it(we normally see him absorbing energy from other sources directly), but I don't think we should start taking away a characters established abilities just because they "forget" about them when the plot is on the line(that's the very definition of PIS). Maybe he's just a long range thinker and realizes that there are more planets than there are stars and if he kills an entire solar system by absorbing the sun it means he can't come back in a billion or so years when the planets in the solar system would have otherwise reached the point that he could feast on them.
Originally posted by darthgoober
You might have a point with the IMP since it's something that has the potential to kill his opponent(which is something that's definitely out of character for the Flash, but not so much with the blitz. See while the instances of Flash refraining from an effective blitz aren't numerous, he proved it was "in character" for him to use the tactic the first time he did it. He might not do it as often as he should, but the fact that he's shown both the ability and the inclination in the past when the plot WASN'T dependant on the villain making Flash work for his victory pretty much proves that his failure to do so most of the time is PIS. That's why Flash blitzing is specifically mentioned in the forum rules.
still not buying it. if he generally doesn't do it, and only does it periodically, then by definition it is consistent for him NOT to blitz. if it's the norm and not the exception it's in character and not pis to me.
By the same token, since G has shown both the ability and inclination to absorb things other than planets for sustenance we should recognize that he has the ability to do so.
ability, yes. inclination? not even close. he is the 'planet devourer'. his entire existence is based around devouring planets. there is absolutely no grounds to say it is easier for g to absorb a planet. the star should clearly sustain him better. so why doesn't he devour stars instead? pis? i don't think so. otherwise, all stories with him in it, where he's starving and needs energy are again meaningless. you'll NEVER convince me that's the case.
You might be able to make a case that his ability to absorb space itself is an instance of SMvF since he's only done it once, but he's pulled it off with stars too many times to ignore. He might PREFER biospheric energy
to the point where he is literally going to DIE because of a 'preference'? again, not buying that at all.
(maybe it "taste" better) and might actually draw more power from since he uses a machine to increase his efficiently at it(we normally see him absorbing energy from other sources directly), but I don't think we should start taking away a characters established abilities just because they "forget" about them when the plot is on the line(that's the very definition of PIS).
or that's the writer remaining consistent with the character's history. i really don't see how you can call consistent portrayal pis. pis is the exception, not the norm.
Maybe he's just a long range thinker and realizes that there are more planets than there are stars and if he kills an entire solar system by absorbing the sun it means he can't come back in a billion or so years when the planets in the solar system would have otherwise reached the point that he could feast on them.
again, to the point where he's willing to ALLOW himself to die? nah. to me consistency and a lack thereof, defines what is or is not pis. to look at it your way renders the stories pointless. worse even, rather than enhancing the plot (which is what you're saying it's done for) it actually LESSENS the plot. a weakness is granted to a character to ENHANCE that character and our ability as readers to relate to the character. a 'perceived weakness' is NOT really a weakness at all, hence works CONTRARY to what a writer wants to achieve.
meh. call it pis if you want, and if you're willing to render all the previous stories meaningless. i choose NOT to view it as pis, and would rather let consistent characterization speak for itself.
Originally posted by Blanket
It's an off hand comment that requires speculation, said by Surfer... over occurrences where he has been fed off random energy. 😬
after working for g for what, 100s or even 1000s of years, i think ss is pretty knowledgeable . . .
PIS is subjective. It's pretty much solid as **** though that he can absorb almost any kind of energy, and feel fed though.
of course he can. i said there is apparently a difference between what he can absorb and what can SUSTAIN him though.
My post was mostly in response to the 'THOSE cases are more easily labelled pis' thing.
if g were starving and suddenly started to devour the space around him, as has been suggested he could do, (and because he does NOT it has even been labeled PIS) after all the times we've seen him starving and NOT eat the space around him, that would be very much out of character. pis? depends on how you define it, i guess, but a case could be made for it. and if he suddenly DID do that, why DIDN'T he do it all the times before? too slippery a slope for me.
Originally posted by leonidasThat's a good point, if he can just absorb space why does he need heralds to find him planets that are suitable for him?
after working for g for what, 100s or even 1000s of years, i think ss is pretty knowledgeable . . .of course he can. i said there is apparently a difference between what he can absorb and what can SUSTAIN him though.
if g were starving and suddenly started to devour the space around him, as has been suggested he could do, (and because he does NOT it has even been labeled PIS) after all the times we've seen him starving and NOT eat the space around him, that would be very much out of character. pis? depends on how you define it, i guess, but a case could be made for it. and if he suddenly DID do that, why DIDN'T he do it all the times before? too slippery a slope for me.
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Probably because absorbing space might damage reality/Eternity, something Galactus wouldn't want to do.
again, to the point where he'd willingly ALLOW himself to die before doing so? after it's being established how vital his role is to the universe and even FUTURE universes? doesn't really work for me. 😬
Originally posted by leonidas
still not buying it. if he generally doesn't do it, and only does it periodically, then by definition it is consistent for him NOT to blitz. if it's the norm and not the exception it's in character and not pis to me.
Originally posted by leonidas
ability, yes. inclination? not even close. he is the 'planet devourer'. his entire existence is based around devouring planets. there is absolutely no grounds to say it is easier for g to absorb a planet. the star should clearly sustain him better. so why doesn't he devour stars instead? pis? i don't think so. otherwise, all stories with him in it, where he's starving and needs energy are again meaningless. you'll NEVER convince me that's the case.
Originally posted by leonidas
to the point where he is literally going to DIE because of a 'preference'? again, not buying that at all.
Originally posted by leonidas
or that's the writer remaining consistent with the character's history. i really don't see how you can call consistent portrayal pis. pis is the exception, not the norm.
Originally posted by leonidas
again, to the point where he's willing to ALLOW himself to die? nah. to me consistency and a lack thereof, defines what is or is not pis. to look at it your way renders the stories pointless. worse even, rather than enhancing the plot (which is what you're saying it's done for) it actually LESSENS the plot. a weakness is granted to a character to ENHANCE that character and our ability as readers to relate to the character. a 'perceived weakness' is NOT really a weakness at all, hence works CONTRARY to what a writer wants to achieve.meh. call it pis if you want, and if you're willing to render all the previous stories meaningless. i choose NOT to view it as pis, and would rather let consistent characterization speak for itself. .
Originally posted by darthgoober
Flash fights lasting longer than 2 panels is specifically mentioned in the forum rules as an example of a forum's example of PIS. There's no way you can argue about consistency when it's specifically mentioned. It being mentioned like that is better proof that it constitutes PIS REGARDLESS of consistency than anything else someone might bring up. It may not be the what leaps to your mind as Plot Induced Stupidity, but it's the standard we're given to follow.
meh, i don't need the forum to dictate to me what is or isn't pis. so i guess we'll agree to disagree, and i'll disagree with the established forum rule as regards flash specifically. since g isn't specifically mentioned though, it is still open for interpretation, and i'll refrain from claiming pis.
Has he ever done it? If so, he's shown the inclination.
huh? if you are INCLINED to do something, you are more likely to do it than not. g is FAR LESS likely to attempt to gain sustenence from anything OTHER the planets.
He may not have the inclination to do it all the time, but to discover that we'd have to look at all the circumstances he showed it to be "in character" for him to do it.
not really--it's IN CHARACTER for him to be hungry and far weaker than he COULD be were he sated or even mostly sated. i think that has been established so often it is basically axiomatic.
Being in the face of death doesn't mean much. I mean how many times have we seen someone Green Lantern or Surfer refrain from healing themselves despite being on the verge of Death?
vs how often they've been shown capable of healing themselves when being on the brink of death? beyond that, they don't serve the function galactus does. galatus plays a grand role (theoretically) in the universal scheme. he NEEDS to live.
True PIS isn't dictated by consistency though, what you're talking about is closer to SMvF. Thor's refrained from using his hammers powers on numerous occasions, that doesn't mean that we assume his hammer "lost" those powers outside of the stories they were featured in.
no one is saying powers are 'lost' at all, but i think the best gauge for whether something is pis or otherwise SHOULD be consistency. smvfl is pis because spidey doesn't consistently beat heralds and fl isn't consistently defeated by low meta characters. on the contrary, logan taking out herc or thor or hulk in straight h2h is NOT pis (as much as people want to say it is) because that is what is consistently shown in brick-style battles when logan is involved. again, what you're saying renders the stories meaningless. you're saying there never really IS a threat, that g never 'really' is in trouble, ever, since he could always just absorb whatever he wanted anytime he wanted. you're also making heralds utterly redundant and meaningless. by rationalizing away his weakness as you have done, you make the character in all his stories pointless. that is simply a choice i choose not to make.
And if every writer were on the same page I'm sure little inconsistencies like that wouldn't exist, but unfortunately not all of them are. Even when we're talking about SMvF, if the character does it multiple times under multiple writers it doesn't qualify.
which is why looking at the most consistently depicted characteristics is so important. and i'd disagree completely--if spidey was shown beating a herald multiple times, then it would no longer be pis, imo. it would fall under the same heading as logan vs uber-bricks.
