Top Ten Sith

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Um what? I don't think you understand. He called them nobodies so he must prove it, especially since they were all on the jedi council and by definition, can't be nobodies. This is NOT equivalent to the religion debate.

Then you shouldn't make the statement that they're nobodies. It's a poor attempt to diminish characters to prove your argument.

But then almost every character in Star Wars is a somebody, even Darth Bandon, who was the apprentice of Darth Malak. Who would you call a nobody then and how would you prove it?

Every character starts of as a nobody and then to become a somebody they have to prove themselves. These characters, by having done nothing special (except being on the Jedi Council, which isn't a good factor for combat prowess) they are marked as nobodies until they proof themselves.

I agree untill we seem them do something they are nobodies in a sense though Kavar is suppose to be a great swordsman/leader but as for the other two they are just jedi masters, ok good for them they are maybe stronger then the average jedi knight but other then that what else do they have to their name.

Originally posted by Gideon
I just caught this:

Do you have anything to corroborate that theory? Anything at all to suggest that this is the case? That Andeddu was not in fine form during his battle with Krayt's flunkie?

Let's make something abundantly clear, because my patience for the "lawl older sith r teh better sith" is pretty much nonexistent. It's an outdated, obsolete, disproven, and entirely worthless notion. Older does not equal better, and it doesn't mean that Andeddu was on the verge of death simply because he got his ass kicked by a newer Sith. It means that:

Spoiler:
There are "new" Sith that are more than capable of handing "old" Sith their asses.

I know, I know. Radical idea.

It's a very plausible theory Gideon. At least several millennia have elapsed since Andeddu was in his body. Unless you're suggesting that someone has the same skills after thousands of years of not using them.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I agree untill we seem them do something they are nobodies in a sense though Kavar is suppose to be a great swordsman/leader but as for the other two they are just jedi masters, ok good for them they are maybe stronger then the average jedi knight but other then that what else do they have to their name.

Are you suggesting that anyone but the most powerful Jedi in the order get put onto the council?

The wisest? Most trustworthy? Eldest? Most diplomatic?

There is a reason why Qui-Gon wasn't on the Council. Do you think that the 12 Jedi on the council are always the most powerful?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
It's a very plausible theory Gideon. At least several millennia have elapsed since Andeddu was in his body. Unless you're suggesting that someone has the same skills after thousands of years of not using them.

Not neccessarily. It seems to me that his time in the Holocron is similar to stasis. From his perspective it would be just like when Lister went into stasis on Red Dwarf i.e. it was like no time had passed at all.

Plus, as I pointed out, why would a chicken like Andeddu start a fight if he wasn't at his peak?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
He projected himself because his spirit was bound to the amulets. Nadd was free to roam the galaxy. Not that any of this matters.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

Now you're arguing against the comics. Hilarious.

Sometimes what you see in the comic really isn't what you see, hell if not i'd argue that exar kun looked like he was waving 12 light sabers around and therefore he is a saber god.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

HOW

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

Prove they're nobodies. And then prove Vader has ANY defense for it. I'll accept your concession on this point because you're just sounding ridiculous.

Kavar is the only exception, and he is more of a saber dueliest than a force fighter and i'd argue that he'd smash kreia in a pure saber duel.

Your the one thats suppose to prove she will insta kill his ass, i don't have to prove it the other way around.

Oh and i don't make "sounds" on the internet.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

No, I just said that if her and Vader were to face off, Vader doesn't have a technique to stop the force drain. You went off on a tangent as usual.

How do you know that her ramblings in the jedi enclave to the exile and the masters was just to stall time to prep the technique?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

This is your question? Looks like you're about 5 years behind this star wars forum. Nihilus' power was greater than Traya's.

Vader has taken more shit that kreia and he still is able to get back on his feet and pick a fight.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

ROFL. The desperate "simple force push" theory has been debunked time and time again. She was drained of the force as she ADMITTED it, and was exiled. You wouldn't sound so ridiculous if you didn't argue against known facts.

I can argue the "power" she was stripped off was her as the head of the sith triumvirate(sp?).

If she truly was cut off the force how come she could still "tilt" the lightsaber a little bit when she called out for it?

A force user whose connection has truly been cut off won't even be able to use the force to any degree(i believe this as ulic couldn't sense kun crying out for him when he was trapped in that temple).

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

You have no idea of Traya's power or command of the force, so speculation is irrelevant.

Galen marek, an even more beastly guy in the force could barely kill vader despite the massive ownage and when galen attempted to kill vader, he gets right back on his feet and gives him another duel(this may be the DS ending, but it is applicable to the "infinities timeline", it just shows what happens IF galen wanted to turn to the DS).

And no matter how strong your command of the force is, if you get caught offguard and brutally pounded without any sort of physical protention of force defence, your going to get smashed to bits, ESPECIALLY if your old.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

His force knowledge, not his command.. Once again, irrelevant and wrong.

Luke, vader and galen prove you wrong, these guys aren't scholars to the degree than sidious is, but their command of the force is nonetheless imrpessive.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

Nope, that he had raw power.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

I haven't contradicted myself once. And this line of thought is hilarious. How do you gain power and reach your potential? Come on, even a 3rd grader knows this. Yes that's right, knowledge. From Holocrons, from his master, etc.

I'm sure that if anakin were to achieve his full potential as a jedi(assuming sidious did die and anakin didn't betray mace), would he have studied all the sith holocrons or everything in the jedi archives(maybe so here)?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

Right. Which means Andeddu's powers had atrophied since the last time he used them.

Keep cracking these jokes and untill you actually prove that andeddu is superior to vader, don't bother arguing that he is.

Oh and i'll believe and acknowledge andeddus force mastery when dynasty of evil comes out, until then, keep him OUT of the sith top tier.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

You've yet to prove any of this and the only facts here don't put Vader in the top tier categories.

*slaps head*.

For the choking xizor miles away shit, heres the full quote

"I would caution the prince-" Thunder, ominous and deep, sounded in Vader's speech. The harsh rasping of his breath was just as audible, transmitted from the bridge of the Executor. He had only recently taken possession of this new flagship, which had replaced the previous Devastator.

Xizor sensed a pressure at his throat, like an invisible hand tightening against his windpipe, cutting off the flow of blood and air to his brain. He didn't know if he was imagining it, if some weakness not yet rooted out from the core of his being had allowed a trace of unreasoning, wordless fear into his thoughts, or whether Vader's powers could reach this far. He had had previous encounters with the dark lord's undeniable strength, the ability to reach out and crush the life from those creatures Vader considered lesser to himself. To annoy him, to fail to carry out instructions or thwart his plans in any way, was to court an unpleasant death by asphyxiation.

For the massive barrier, go play the prologue of TFU, its part of the scripted gameplay that vaders smashes a gigantic barrier with one force move.

And for the hut, this is from the novel

When the warriors were spent, he turned his attention to the struts of the hut. Raising one hand, Vader dug deep into the dark side, bending and cracking the ancient wood. It resisted, as strong but not as brittly as metal could be. It twisted and flexed, releasing energy slowly rather than snapping in two.

But that didn't save the people above. The hut tossed like a ship on stormy seas. Wookiees leapt or swung to safety.

"Grab hold of something," the robed man called to them. "Quickly!"

Vader clenched his fist, hard,and the support struts finally cracked. He extended both hands, and the hut shook from side to side. With a sickening sound, the last of its supports gave way and the hut tumbled to the platform below. Wookiees flew bodily in all directions. Splinters and dust filled the air.

Vader didn't flinch as the hut crashed directly in front of him, split open like an overripe fruit.

^DO NOT underestimate the properties of wood, you may think its easy but seriously, have you ever watched myth busters? A minigun barely had enough power to shoot a tree trunk in half.

Vader crushed the entire foundations of a massive hut and had enough power to shake the hut itself like a ship in a stormy sea.

And have you ever seen how massive ships rock in a stormy sea?

As for vader pwning kota, go look it up on you tube.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

uh, no?

Vader was as tall as Vastor had been, but probably massed a good twenty kilos less. He wasn't physically impressive in the same way; no musculature was visible under the black armor. It didn't matter. There was no doubt in Nick's mind that, were Kar Vastor somehow pitted against Darth Vader, the feral Balawai renegade wouldn't stand a chance.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington

I don't have to prove it. In fact YOU have to prove that Traya was empowered by Malachor V. Traya herself stated that these sith marauders gain power when they near a force sensitive. You lose.

And wasn't kreia able to mask her force connection and escape detection by other force users? So how do you gain power from something you cannot see/sense?

EDIT

BTW DS.

Don't get angry if i disagree with you, i'm certainly not angry at you at all for disagreeing.

I just think this is a good debate weather any of us are being "ridiculous" or not and i still respect you like most of the other forum members.

This IS a good debate, no trolling no bullshit no flaming, just plenty of disagreements hence the debate.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Are you suggesting that anyone but the most powerful Jedi in the order get put onto the council?

Yes, before Anakin Skywalker was on the council (and as we know wasn't put on because the council deemed him worthy to be one of them) he was arguably then a good part of the council.

Jacen Solo (Betrayal) was more powerful then members of LOTF jedi council and probably was in the Dark Nest Trilogy too.

Qui-gon would be on the council if not for his views on topics.

Slash is right, not everyone is on the council simply because they are good in combat, Anoon Bondara (suppose to be second to none in technical ability) and Cin Drallig were two battle masters and weren't on it.

So it's not impossible and again I ask what makes them powerful other then being on the council and how the hell do we substantiate that when two of them don't really have anything to their names.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Are you suggesting that anyone but the most powerful Jedi in the order get put onto the council?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Coleman_Trebor

You have done well my young apprentice.... hence forth, you shall be known as.. darth....

Spoiler:
marvel

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Thanks for "backing me up" ma friend, now your saying he is free to roam the galaxy so that further makes me believe that that he wasn't bound to specifically any place.

Hilarious indeed, the same way enyalus argued that palpatine DIDN'T dissintigrate the large metal object that crashed on palpatine but rather shurg it off as stated by the DESB. The same way that spirits aren't bound to any one place.

Sometimes what you see in the comic really isn't what you see, hell if not i'd argue that exar kun looked like he was waving 12 light sabers around and therefore he is a saber god.
I'll drop this one, this actually shows his ability to take unimaginable shit and just shows are much pain vader can endure, not his beastly command of teh force.

Why do i have to prove that? I mean what did they do that establishes themselves as ub3r l33t powerful jedi? In my eyes, because they have done absolutely nothing force wise, they are just your average joe jedi masters.

Your the one thats suppose to prove she will insta kill his ass, i don't have to prove it the other way around.

Oh and i don't make "sounds" on the internet.
Your assuming it would be her initial attack against vader, and even if it was, is there anything to prove that such a lethal technique(while it isn't going to drop more powerful people that easily, its still dangerous) is instant?

How do you know that her ramblings in the jedi enclave to the exile and the masters was just to stall time to prep the technique?

And so is vaders, nihilus didn't use his crazy technique on her, or she would have died, he simply force pushed her onto a wall and a simple force push knocked her out pretty badly.

Vader has taken more shit that kreia and he still is able to get back on his feet and pick a fight.

Yeah you mean the part where she said i was "stripped of my power?

I can argue the "power" she was stripped off was her as the head of the sith triumvirate(sp?).

If she truly was cut off the force how come she could still "tilt" the lightsaber a little bit when she called out for it?

Just prove that more knowlege = a greater command of the force.

Luke, vader and galen prove you wrong, these guys aren't scholars to the degree than sidious is, but their command of the force is nonetheless imrpessive.

O really? Prove that achieving your full potential means studying from holocrons this and that.

I'm sure that if anakin were to achieve his full potential as a jedi(assuming sidious did die and anakin didn't betray mace), would he have studied all the sith holocrons or everything in the jedi archives(maybe so here)?
Yeah so that means he s more p0wd3rful than v@der.

As for the rest of this horse shit, come back when you learn how to debate.

I don't think he suggested that Anakin wouldn't need some degree of study to reach his full potential (he wasn't averse to studying as Vader), he was saying he wouldn't need to delve deep into esoteric studies.

Anakin grew stronger without study through his experiences in the clone wars.

You can't have a Sith top 10 list without Vader (the first Sith, the daddy of them all). He has the most feats of any Sith in SW.

Originally posted by Allankles
I don't think he suggested that Anakin wouldn't need some degree of study to reach his full potential (he wasn't averse to studying as Vader), he was saying he wouldn't need to delve deep into esoteric studies.

Anakin grew stronger without study through his experiences in the clone wars.

You can't have a Sith top 10 list without Vader (the first Sith, the daddy of them all). He has the most feats of any Sith in SW.

Anakin grew stronger in RAW POWER. His power stays RAW until he refines it under the study of the force. Raw power by itself is meaningless.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Anakin grew stronger in RAW POWER.

This suggests a misunderstanding of the expressions "raw power" and "potential."

They are the same. Anakin had the same raw power as a nine year old boy that he did during his duel with Kenobi.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Anakin grew stronger in RAW POWER. His power stays RAW until he refines it under the study of the force. Raw power by itself is meaningless.

What Gideon said.

Also, are you actually refusing to acknowledge that Anakin grew stronger through conflict (not study) during the clone wars?

His Jedi powers grew with constant use, like an athlete improving with age.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Anakin grew stronger in RAW POWER. His power stays RAW until he refines it under the study of the force. Raw power by itself is meaningless.

tell that to darth zannah when she snapped 2 guy's necks and blew up her cousins hands with NO training OR study of the force.

As to the Raw power and potential thing I'd say that someones raw power is how well they can innately use the force along with potential to a certain degree.

like anakins potential to be uber as a 9 year old boy was immense and his raw is immense because of how much potential he has but he could use his raw power to pod race as a child.

so i guess your potential dictates how much raw power you have which is what I think gideon was saying now that i think about it.

A simply google search can give you the most accurate answer.
http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/powerful_sith.html
from the man himself

Originally posted by xJLxKing
A simply google search can give you the most accurate answer.
http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/powerful_sith.html
from the man himself

um dude just so you know that ENTIRE site is bogus and NOT canon. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

SS.com is SUpershadow and I believe lucasarts or Leland Chee or someone official has stated that the site is made up and not real.

man... i haven't heard from supershadow in a long time. I hoped that site went away. Apparently not. thanks for trying to help i guess King.