God or Satan...Who's Truly Evil?

Like who? Don't say gnostics... god is perfect in gnosticism, the demiurge isn't the real god in that religion...

Originally posted by Luminatus
Basic human nature tells us that what we are refused is even more alluring.

All metaphors are imperfect.
Biblical God is a metaphor.
Therefore, Biblical God is imperfect.

Debates about metaphors ---> conclusions about metaphors.

Originally posted by Mindship
All metaphors are imperfect.
Biblical God is a metaphor.
Therefore, Biblical God is imperfect.

Four terms fallacy.

I don't see the four terms.

1. Biblical God
2. Metaphors
3. Imperfection

None of those has a double meaning that would create a fourth term.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't see the four terms.

1. Biblical God
2. Metaphors
3. Imperfection

None of those has a double meaning that would create a fourth term.

Metaphor is used two slightly different ways. Unless he's saying that god is a literary device which is clearly not how the Bible portrays it.

Or alternately God is used two different ways. God as a metaphor and God as actually portrayed in the bible.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Metaphor is used two slightly different ways. Unless he's saying that god is a literary device which is clearly not how the Bible portrays it.

Or alternately God is used two different ways. God as a metaphor and God as actually portrayed in the bible.

Originally posted by Luminatus
It all started earlier today with looking up chaos religions and finding out about Discordianism. That somehow led to Satanism which led to me reading a bit about Theistic Satanism ie. worshiping Satan as a god.

When you actually think about it, isn't it God who truly tempted Adam and Eve? He chose to put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil there and said "don't eat from this tree." Basic human nature tells us that what we are refused is even more alluring.

Plus, I'm not a big Old Testament buff but didn't God tell the Jews to kinda kill a lot? So I don't see Satan in The Bible orchestrating mass murder.

Also I found this interesting quote earlier.

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis (Lucifer); He refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay." Qur'an 7:11-12

Seems like a fair enough objection to me. If I had all the power and wisdom of an angel I wouldn't bow to us either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Reign_In_Hell

Fun read.

Originally posted by Bardock42
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Reign_In_Hell

Fun read.

Originally posted by Luminatus
It all started earlier today with looking up chaos religions and finding out about Discordianism. That somehow led to Satanism which led to me reading a bit about Theistic Satanism ie. worshiping Satan as a god.

When you actually think about it, isn't it God who truly tempted Adam and Eve? He chose to put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil there and said "don't eat from this tree." Basic human nature tells us that what we are refused is even more alluring.

Plus, I'm not a big Old Testament buff but didn't God tell the Jews to kinda kill a lot? So I don't see Satan in The Bible orchestrating mass murder.

Also I found this interesting quote earlier.

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis (Lucifer); He refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay." Qur'an 7:11-12

Seems like a fair enough objection to me. If I had all the power and wisdom of an angel I wouldn't bow to us either.

It is an interesting objection to be sure. I believe that God commanded the Israelites to kill for a variety of reasons. Sometimes in defense of them but other times it could be considered a test of sorts.

Angels are emanations of God and in that they have no will other than what he bestows... man is given the will of god and is superior to angels. That said the notion that satan is an enemy of god is a misconception within christianity. He is another emanation.

all i remember is that Satan's ultimate trump card is that he can manupilate our strength into our weakness.
i'm seeing that here.

speaking with faith in mind:
I think lotta times people refuse to see the keyword: beyond human understanding when it comes to religions. we always go around pretending that we understand things and a few years down the road we're proven wrong. yet, every single time the "wise people" gather together and pretend that they've got everything figured out. and with this limited, feeble, overly self-indulgent "thinking" people are going around calling god evil and satan good.

Actually from what I've read, the reason many Satanists worship Him is because they view Him as a source of knowledge. They see his guiding Eve to eat the fruit as not an act of evil seduction but wanting to help humans learn and live under their own strength.

This is a nice little site.
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/

And I'm a simple person so i appreciate words more with visuals and music so this vid is nice too.
YouTube video

yeah i know. satanism isn't actually "oh lets kill babies in the name of satan" as most people think. satanism actually use satan because they view him the epitome of individuality. which, baring my religious side, i do actually see. satanism is in fact actually pragmatic and realistic.

Originally posted by Luminatus
It all started earlier today with looking up chaos religions and finding out about Discordianism. That somehow led to Satanism which led to me reading a bit about Theistic Satanism ie. worshiping Satan as a god.

When you actually think about it, isn't it God who truly tempted Adam and Eve? He chose to put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil there and said "don't eat from this tree." Basic human nature tells us that what we are refused is even more alluring.

Plus, I'm not a big Old Testament buff but didn't God tell the Jews to kinda kill a lot? So I don't see Satan in The Bible orchestrating mass murder.

Also I found this interesting quote earlier.

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis (Lucifer); He refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay." Qur'an 7:11-12

Seems like a fair enough objection to me. If I had all the power and wisdom of an angel I wouldn't bow to us either.

God is Love, and he worketh all things for the good of those who love him(good).

Originally posted by Thundar
God is Love, and he worketh all things for the good of those who love him(good).

If god is all love then "he" would not not limit that love to just those who love "him". True love does not require anything in return.

God is definitely the evil one. He hides hatred, egomania, hipocrisy, cruelty, bigotry, and his obsession with control behind a thin veneer of supposed love.

Edit: This, of course, if God is indeed represented by most christians, especially the hardline ones.

Epicurus for the win:

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

Originally posted by Luminatus
It all started earlier today with looking up chaos religions and finding out about Discordianism. That somehow led to Satanism which led to me reading a bit about Theistic Satanism ie. worshiping Satan as a god.

When you actually think about it, isn't it God who truly tempted Adam and Eve? He chose to put the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil there and said "don't eat from this tree." Basic human nature tells us that what we are refused is even more alluring.

Plus, I'm not a big Old Testament buff but didn't God tell the Jews to kinda kill a lot? So I don't see Satan in The Bible orchestrating mass murder.

Also I found this interesting quote earlier.

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis (Lucifer); He refused to be of those who prostrate.

(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay." Qur'an 7:11-12

Seems like a fair enough objection to me. If I had all the power and wisdom of an angel I wouldn't bow to us either.

God Almight is in control of all god(s)... 😉

Originally posted by Thundar
God Almight is in control of all god(s)... 😉

There is more then one god? 😕