Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygonwe chose the flaw. I wouldn't have it another way. I would have chosen the right to chose.
The ends does not justify the means..What was the point of him letting us, mortal men with limited knowledge, choose which path to take?
If he was almighty, he could've just fixed the 'flaw'. He is, after all, perfect as Christians believe him to be.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Who says imperfection is flawed?What is the philosophical meaning of "flawed" and "perfection" anyway?
im·per·fec·tion (mpr-fkshn)
n.
1. The quality or condition of being imperfect.
2. Something imperfect; a defect or flaw. See Synonyms at blemish.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/imperfection
flaw 1 (flô)
n.
1. An imperfection, often concealed, that impairs soundness: a flaw in the crystal that caused it to shatter. See Synonyms at blemish.
2. A defect or shortcoming in something intangible: They share the character flaw of arrogance.
3. A defect in a legal document that can render it invalid.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/flawed
I couldn't find a philosophical dictionary.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygonGod doesn't create evil. God doesn't create sin. God made a perfect world. Putting the tree in the garden, and allowing Satan to "test" our obedience was simply to give us a choice to obey and disobey.
God works in mysterious ways.He's the man who created Satan.. yet people say that he is merciful and forgiving... even though he is the ULTIMATE reason why EVIL exists in the first place!!
If he really loved his creation, he should'nt have given us these 'tests'.
Why can't he just fix what he messed up, and bring the people back to the Garden of Eden and live their eternal lives in peace and prosperity?
God made the perfect angel (satan) the most powerful of them all, and gave him free will just like us.
With all his pride and glory, he fell, he chose to become greater even than god, but failed. So god put him in his place.
I believe the greatest thing God has done was in fact to give us a choice, for what are we if we don't have choices? Till this day, satan still lures all mankind away from god, and many fall for it.
If we assume the standard all powerful imperfect model of god, then I dare say, he is a prick.
Everything that has happened is his fault. He created Adam and Eve from scratch and designed their personalities. He was in control of every variable that influence their decision. Being all knowing, he had to know that Adam and Eve would sin and have no choice not to because of the simple fact that everything is a relation of cause. God created Adam and Eve and ergo, set things into motion from there.
Even if you reject my hard deterministic viewpoint, there is still the question of how Adam and Eve would even been aware that they were sinning.
They had no knowledge of good and evil, right or wrong. Ergo, they could not have been aware that what they were doing was wrong.
You seem to have a good understanding about how god created man. I don't think its possible for us understand the process he went through when he created satan or even adam and eve. (All the variables)
When they ate the fruit of knowledge they then had sinned, it opened their eyes... meaning, it made them realize what it was to disobey gods law, what it was to sin. They were then able to comprehend good and evil and the whole spectrum of it.
Originally posted by Autokrat
If we assume the standard all powerful imperfect model of god, then I dare say, he is a prick.Everything that has happened is his fault. He created Adam and Eve from scratch and designed their personalities. He was in control of every variable that influence their decision. Being all knowing, he had to know that Adam and Eve would sin and have no choice not to because of the simple fact that everything is a relation of cause. God created Adam and Eve and ergo, set things into motion from there.
Even if you reject my hard deterministic viewpoint, there is still the question of how Adam and Eve would even been aware that they were sinning.
They had no knowledge of good and evil, right or wrong. Ergo, they could not have been aware that what they were doing was wrong.
Good thing it is all just mythology.
Originally posted by Mairuzu
You seem to have a good understanding about how god created man. I don't think its possible for us understand the process he went through when he created satan or even adam and eve. (All the variables)When they ate the fruit of knowledge they then had sinned, it opened their eyes... meaning, it made them realize what it was to disobey gods law, what it was to sin. They were then able to comprehend good and evil and the whole spectrum of it.
😄
Originally posted by Autokrat
If we assume the standard all powerful imperfect model of god, then I dare say, he is a prick.Everything that has happened is his fault. He created Adam and Eve from scratch and designed their personalities. He was in control of every variable that influence their decision. Being all knowing, he had to know that Adam and Eve would sin and have no choice not to because of the simple fact that everything is a relation of cause. God created Adam and Eve and ergo, set things into motion from there.
Even if you reject my hard deterministic viewpoint, there is still the question of how Adam and Eve would even been aware that they were sinning.
They had no knowledge of good and evil, right or wrong. Ergo, they could not have been aware that what they were doing was wrong.
I`m going to go with Clive Barker explanation in the Jericho. It makes a great story.
God created, originally, a being in its own image. It was neither male nor female, neither good nor evil, both beautiful and terrible to behold.
When God released what he had created and how powerful it was, he was disturbed. Releasing that he cannot destroy it, he created an abyss for it, a box (pyxis) and left it there for eternity - unfinished and unloved.
Then God started all over again, and created another being, but this time it made two, gave it different sexes, intellect, ability to love, hate, feel and importantly, gave it a soul.
The First Born rotting for eternity into the abyss God left it in, bent on destroying God`s favourite children so that he may be again loved by God, and so that God may give it what it really wants - a soul.
I should start my own religion, write my own book with this story in it, together with collection of other Clive Barker stories.
Scientology would get its ass kicked by my awesome Clive Barker religion.