Health Care [Merged]

Originally posted by inimalist
http://www.livescience.com/health/090922-healthcare-costs.html

not that it proves Kandy's point, given the article associates this longevity gap with poor lifestyle and not inaccessibly health care, but the American system, culture included, is lagging

The whole issue I have though really, is the rather subjective nature of such rankings in general. And that I don't think they should be seen as absolutes.

This is just awesome- CIGNA to mother: "**** YOU!"

For those who don't know the story, three years ago a 17 year old girl needed a liver transplant for cancer treatment. As usual, CIGNA said it was experimental and denied coverage. There was a long battle and they finally agreed to cover the procedure just hours before the girl died.
So people got pissed, there were protests, and even an unsubstantiated claim that someone threw a molotov cocktail at CIGNA's corporate headquarters. The family sued and CIGNA declared victory saying that their decision was justified in court. Not true since the lawsuit was never heard. Health insurance companies have immunity from lawsuits involving coverage denials.

So the girl's mother lead a protest at CIGNA's offices against the myriad of legal immunities that insurance companies had and what do the employees do? They heckle her and give her the finger. I haven't seen so blatant a display of cold hearted cock suckery since Virginia Foxx called Matthew Shepherds mother a fraud to her face on the congressional floor while arguing against hate crimes legislation.
Just heart breaking.

For those who don't know, the most glaring immunities that insurance companies have are-

Immunity from claims related lawsuits
Immunity from the Sherman Anti-Trust Act and certain provisions of the RICO Act
Liability of life insurance companies limited to $10,000

"Not true since the lawsuit was never heard. Health insurance companies have immunity from lawsuits involving coverage denials."

Wait, what? Do you have further info on that?

First of all, there is no law that forces insurance companies to provide any kind of service at all.
Second, a decision made by the US Supreme Court in 1987 (I don't remember the case) states that health insurers cannot be sued by clients regarding coverage based decisions.

Titles III and IV of ERISA make it even harder.

I just got a job near my school for the semester and after a year I will be offered health insurance and benefits, oh yeah!

But I don't need it, since I have my own.

Even if I didn't work there, I would also be able to get it through my school.

And they say it's hard to get health insurance, geez.

Originally posted by KidRock
I just got a job near my school for the semester and after a year I will be offered health insurance and benefits, oh yeah!

But I don't need it, since I have my own.

Even if I didn't work there, I would also be able to get it through my school.

And they say it's hard to get health insurance, geez.

What school are you going to, anyway?

Originally posted by King Kandy
You only get it after a year? I mean your school provides it for the first year, but if not you would be paying out of your pocket which is hard for low-income families (if i'm understanding your situation right...)

What school are you going to, anyway?

I am only working part-time, I think full timers get it quicker. I was talking to an older employee and they said the coverage is great and don't know what they would do without the company giving them the benefits. Makes me angry to hear people wanting to raise the corporate tax though. This might make those companies have to cut back on the benefits to compensate.

edit: I go to one of the Connecticut State Universities.

Originally posted by KidRock
I am only working part-time, I think full timers get it quicker. I was talking to an older employee and they said the coverage is great and don't know what they would do without the company giving them the benefits. Makes me angry to hear people wanting to raise the corporate tax though. This might make those companies have to cut back on the benefits to compensate.

You go to conneticut? How good is the program?

Originally posted by King Kandy
In an earlier thread you said people shouldn't ask their companies for benefits but rather get them themselves... now you are pulling a complete 180. And if they don't know what to do without their corporate benefits, you are admitting people without jobs that can provide them will have trouble.

What sort of program is your school giving you, anyway?

Pretty sure I didn't say that. I said the government should not FORCE these companies to give benefits. Feel free to find the thread if I did say it, but regardless this is what I meant.

That is not what I am saying at all. That is what the other guy was saying. Granted he was also a middle aged man with nothing but a high school education and a family who continuously tells me to "stay in school" and "good job furthering your education, it's worth the work". From my own interpretation I feel he realizes that if this company didn't provide him benefits and he wasn't able to purchase it on his own, it would be his own fault and nobody elses.

Originally posted by King Kandy

You go to conneticut? How good is the program?

What program? The healthcare one?

Originally posted by KidRock
Pretty sure I didn't say that. I said the government should not FORCE these companies to give benefits. Feel free to find the thread if I did say it, but regardless this is what I meant.

That is not what I am saying at all. That is what the other guy was saying. Granted he was also a middle aged man with nothing but a high school education and a family who continuously tells me to "stay in school" and "good job furthering your education, it's worth the work". From my own interpretation I feel he realizes that if this company didn't provide him benefits and he wasn't able to purchase it on his own, it would be his own fault and nobody elses.

Yeah, my family has pushed me to get the highest education and jobs that I could. But I think that given the essential role low-tier jobs play in our society, it's not necessarily the best thing to restrict them. A lot of people could have trouble paying for two or four year colleges, especially since the debts worked up by student loans can be really killer (especially if you're getting an advanced degree... the sort of debts med students can work up are legendary).

Also another thing are people who go to trade schools... the jobs they get are really important, but they won't necessarily provide good benefits or high income.

Originally posted by KidRock
What program? The healthcare one?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay. Could easily have just been a misunderstanding on my part.

Yeah, my family has pushed me to get the highest education and jobs that I could. But I think that given the essential role low-tier jobs play in our society, it's not necessarily the best thing to restrict them. A lot of people could have trouble paying for two or four year colleges, especially since the debts worked up by student loans can be really killer (especially if you're getting an advanced degree... the sort of debts med students can work up are legendary).

Also another thing are people who go to trade schools... the jobs they get are really important, but they won't necessarily provide good benefits or high income.

And I suppose companies giving out benefits to their lower paid employees. This is why I am against the government raising the corporate tax rate and raising the minimum wage, it threatens these lower class workers benefits.

I understand the debt people can incur, it played a big role in choosing the school I go to. I have a scholarship that would give give me a free ride through a public Connecticut university. This was a main reason why I turned down an expensive private school (Northeastern U). There is plenty of scholarships and financial aid opportunities, especially for people in a lower financial class. I have a professor who worked for the New York State Police and he said after 10 years of working for them they paid for more then half of his law school tuition.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Also another thing are people who go to trade schools... the jobs they get are really important, but they won't necessarily provide good benefits or high income.

Trade workers can make very good money and benefits, especially if they're unionized.