Health care
What are your thoughts on the health care in your country?
If you live in a country where there is a universal health care, do you use it, support it, or have you opted for private health care? If you're in a country that doesn't have universal health care, would you want to have it, or are you happy with the health care you have now?
Also, if you live in a country with universal health care, do you think stomatology and optometry should be part of universal health care as well?
There is no real healthcare coverage for 1/3rd of the United States population. Many of those are covered by a ponzi scheme claiming to be insurance. There are long lines, rationing, and death panels under the guise of private managed care. The insurance companies strangle the country with a monopoly and buy the president and politicians. The drug industry overcharges and upholds stringent patent and copyright policies that make them complicit in genocide and insurance premiums drive our wages down and prices up. Government tries to pass pussy, half ass so called reform so a minority of militant brownshirts recruits a bunch of racists to violently suppress opposition, molding policy to the benefit of insurance companies and giving politically motivated violence legitimacy, while aid organizations which were founded to provide health relief in the third world now mostly concentrate in the United States to provide medical services for 130 million people who are uninsured, underinsured, or facing bankruptcy from life saving procedures that their insurance doesn't cover or can't afford medical payments for their families because they have a $40,000 annual deductible.
Meanwhile, doctors who can't make enough due to unfair compensation and high insurance overheads make up the difference through self-referrals, unnecessary tests, and by medieval treatments like treating gum disease by pulling teeth instead of using antibiotics and treating ectopic pregnancies with hysterectomies.
And that's why us parasitic Americans would rather pay a couple hundred bucks to go to Canada to see your doctors instead of going bankrupt or dying in the streets here.
Originally posted by PlacidityYeah, cause if you watch something then some bullshit sentimental biased piece of crap.
* Go Universal Health Care* Health Care in the United States is shocking.
* Watch the film 'Sicko' by Michael Moore.
Anyways, health care is problematic in my country, at least public health care. It's rather expensive, and very unflexible, as many things the government thinks it can do. Personally I am privately insured, and that's quite lucky, cause private health care is rather good here, and gets you a lot of advantages. I guess on the whole I am glad that we don't have a corporate socialist system as the US or a universal, but slow and rather bad system as the UK.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, cause if you watch something then some bullshit sentimental biased piece of crap.Anyways, health care is problematic in my country, at least public health care. It's rather expensive, and very unflexible, as many things the government thinks it can do. Personally I am privately insured, and that's quite lucky, cause private health care is rather good here, and gets you a lot of advantages. I guess on the whole I am glad that we don't have a corporate socialist system as the US or a universal, but slow and rather bad system as the UK.
Actually, the former VP of Cigna and many other former insurance employees confirmed that Sicko is 100% true and that the health insurance industry spent $150 million to make Michael Moore seem illegitimate and defeat the movie.
The problem is with how private insurance works. They claim that the prices are based on cost of care and things like illegal immigration and malpractice suits. Not so.
In actuality, the insurance risk pool is made up of premiums from policy holders (that have been underwritten so that the only people who typically get insurance are those who need it least unless they get it through an employer), shareholders who buy stock in the company, and a government subsidy which typically accounts for 60% of the risk pool. Everything is then invested in the stock market.
So where does the money go after that? First overhead, which accounts for as much as 30%, then executive compensation which can run into the billions, the marketing, bribery-er I mean lobbying, paying dividends, and finally whatever is left is what goes to the policy holders, but only if their treatment isn't too expensive or else someone digs up a reason to rescind their policy or they just reach their lifetime maximum and get kicked off or, they just deem any treatment "experimental" and refuse to cover it.
But what if they get sued? Well, they've got that covered too. A rider tacked on to the bankruptcy reform bill passed in 2006 legally makes any kind of insurance company legally liable for a maximum of $10,000 in damages so typically they plead guilty, pay a pittance, and never even go to trial. That's happened even in recent cases where judges have determined that civil racketeering charges are warranted!
But where it gets really awesome is if you try to change the system. Apart from owning nearly every member of congress and the president, health insurance companies have their own "trade group" which is the framework they use to pool resources and fix prices. They can (and have) spent more money than it takes to fight small military conflicts on advertising in order to defeat any reform legislation. And when that or their supplied congressional talking points don't work, they hire astroturfing organizations like Dick Armey's Freedomworks to hire a bunch of "grassroots activists" to disrupt town hall meetings, subvert democracy, and occasionally drag the opposition out into the street, beat them to within an inch of their lives, and then press charges for assault and battery after faking injuries.
lol, tl:dr warning
so, no more than 3 months ago, I was diagnosed as being type 1 diabetic.
To live, I need to monitor my blood sugar levels. My case isn't so bad, and small insulin injections, 3 times a day at meals, with a second, long lasting, insulin injection at bed, is totally enough to keep my sugars in check (in fact, as I get healthier, my insulin requirements are going down, all I'm really saying is that, as far as diabetes goes, I could be WAY worse).
So, I'll get to the medications in a second, but just as far as doctors visits go: I have had several walk in clinic appointments, normally with blood work and other lab work done. A night in the emergency ward, on going meetings with diabetic specialists and a nutritionist at the hospital, and now at least 2 separate endocrinologists working with me. I'm thinking of going to a third, as I'm more inclined to their style, but whatever. Waiting periods have been, well, non-existent. The endocrinologists have had a couple of months wait, but my condition isn't life threatening, so its not that big a deal. I guess in a private system I might not have to wait until January to meet this new guy, but this was only really an issue when I was first diagnosed. Because there are so few family doctors, and mine is in the city I used to live in (45 min drive, ugh) I initially went to a walk in clinic when I figured out something was up. They prescribed me pills, which was stupid, and better care immediately would likely have been possible in a private system, though, within a week I was seeing a diabetic specialist, because I was vigilant and kept on the system when I didn't think the care was proper.
In all of this, the only direct cost, to me, has been parking at the hospitals and clinics. While there may have been marginal advantages to a private system in my case, it would have prevented many other conveniences. For instance, I would likely not be seeing as many endocrinologists, if any, nor would I be so frequently with the diabetic care specialists. Further, given the initial walk in would have cost a significant amount, I would have been more likely to find out I was a diabetic after slipping into a coma or something else, whereas access to "free" doctors allowed me to be somewhat preventative.
Now, medications in Canada (Ontario at least) are not covered by the government. I am on my father's health plan, so that works well, but soon I will have to use the one I get through school (I'll be 25 and no longer covered by his work). I didn't find any stats on a quick google search, but I've never heard of "uninsured" canadians being refused medicine as a real problem with our system. At the very least, going by the OHIP site (http://www.settlement.org/sys/faqs_detail.asp?faq_id=4000305) there are numerous ways that the government will assist you, and even if I didn't have a specific health plan, there would be a way for me to get the government to assist with meds.
This is good. Because, I currently have over a dozen prescriptions for things that I go through fairly quickly. Contour test strips, which I use 3-5 of a day, cost about $90 for 100. I would die if I didn't have them, and if I had to pay for them, well, I'd be in really bad shape. Insulin is similarily expensive, as are the machines which I test my sugars on, etc.
On paper, there are advantages to either one (private v public). However, when you go through stuff like this, some things becomes abundantly clear. You can't sacrifice the ability of people to have excellent care, just because it might free things up or make things more convenient. I'm in favor of private care being available, but if a government must exist, this is something it owes the people who it gives itself the power to rule.
The US has the most expensive health care on earth yet it is consistantly rated towards the bottom of the first world. The "free market" simply doesn't work here because it places profits before people.
Obama's health care "reform" is garbage as well. It would prioritize care based on "probability of longetivy", in other words, it tells old people to fukk off and die. It would also NOT reduce costs.
Affordable health care should be a universal right and everyone should have access to it but the problem in the US is our country is so broke and in debt we simply can't afford it at this time.
The US government spends more money, per individual, on healthcare than Canada does, and we provide universal coverage
this is part of a macleans article that sort of went through why Canada kicks America's ass, this section, health:
http://www.macleans.ca/science/health/article.jsp?content=20080625_19351_19351
Originally posted by inimalist
The US government spends more money, per individual, on healthcare than Canada does, and we provide universal coveragethis is part of a macleans article that sort of went through why Canada kicks America's ass, this section, health:
http://www.macleans.ca/science/health/article.jsp?content=20080625_19351_19351
And here is the messed up thing - half of all bankruptcies and half of all foreclosures are result of people not being able to pay their medical bills
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
And here is the messed up thing - half of all bankruptcies and half of all foreclosures are result of people not being able to pay their medical bills
It is so weird, eh?
how the American people were ever swindled into supporting such a retarded system is beyond me.
Like, I wasn't a huge fan of Sicko, but the realization on that woman's face, when she learned how much other people in the world pay for the medicine that is bankrupting her, that alone should have been enough for people to demand something else.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Also, if you live in a country with universal health care, do you think stomatology and optometry should be part of universal health care as well?
ha, missed this part initially
absolutely!
not only that, but proper mental health care too.
Originally posted by inimalist
It is so weird, eh?how the American people were ever swindled into supporting such a retarded system is beyond me.
Like, I wasn't a huge fan of Sicko, but the realization on that woman's face, when she learned how much other people in the world pay for the medicine that is bankrupting her, that alone should have been enough for people to demand something else.
ha, missed this part initially
absolutely!
not only that, but proper mental health care too.
Apparently, France is supposed to have the best health care in the world.
And I must say I have not had any problems with Canadian health care, nor have I ever, and I mean ever had problems with the UK one.
I had problem with my kidneys (actually, knock on wood it wasn't that but I thought at the time it was) and I called up a doctor at 3 am, but 3.30 i was at hospital. He did tests, prescribed some stuff to me and I was back home that evening and was alright 2 days later.
I cannot imagine having to pay for such thing.
And I strongly support stomatology and optometry being part of universal healthcare - I am having issues with how expensive that is at the moment, let alone paying for every single thing that is wrong with me or could be wrong with me if I didn't have universal health care.
The thing is - you pay for it one way or another - if not through taxes then out of your own pocket to corporations who are going to try and avoid paying out (like all other insurance bastards).
As far as medication goes in UK, we all pay set price of little over £6.45. Some medication are maybe 20p, but you pay for it £6.45, however if for some reason you had to have a medication which was £20, you'd still pay 6.45.
I think this is fair.
I am sorry to hear you were diagnosed with diabitis. That must have been terrible, especially since you're young. For some reason I associate diabetes with older people, which is really really wrong, since an astounding number of very young children and young adults have it.
I have Health Care through my employer. The issue of Health care will be vary depending on the case. I personally happy with my plan and the doctor, dentist, dermatologish, etc...that my plan provides.
My take on health care is similar to going to a trial. If you can afford a very good lawyer...get him...if not...use the one provided by the state. In other words Pull your own weight. If you can afford a health plan...then good for you. If you can't, then let the state government take care of you.
I've never used a stomatology and optometry or whatever so I can't comment on that...
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Apparently, France is supposed to have the best health care in the world.
And I must say I have not had any problems with Canadian health care, nor have I ever, and I mean ever had problems with the UK one.
I've had the discussion with KidRock before. He'll point out people who needed emergency specialist treatment needing to be shipped to the states (at the expense of the Canadian gvt of course) for care.
So like, if you needed emergency brain surgery, or an fMRI immediatly, you might be SOL, but that is, to me, the only glaring issue we have, which is slowly being solved by the introduction of the private clinics.
I don't know if it exists, but fMRI stuff could easily use research machines in the cases of emergencies. Its strange, i could book an fMRI for research purposes, and get in sometime this month, whereas it is 3-6 months for medical reasons. While it makes me smile, its sad.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I had problem with my kidneys (actually, knock on wood it wasn't that but I thought at the time it was) and I called up a doctor at 3 am, but 3.30 i was at hospital. He did tests, prescribed some stuff to me and I was back home that evening and was alright 2 days later.
I cannot imagine having to pay for such thing.
I'm glad it wasn't anything major 🙂
but totally, or even, how likely would you be to forego medical treatment because you know how much it is going to cost? how many people wake up at 3 and go, "I'll see how it is in the morning" because they don't have the cash on hand?
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
And I strongly support stomatology and optometry being part of universal healthcare - I am having issues with how expensive that is at the moment, let alone paying for every single thing that is wrong with me or could be wrong with me if I didn't have universal health care.
The thing is - you pay for it one way or another - if not through taxes then out of your own pocket to corporations who are going to try and avoid paying out (like all other insurance bastards).
I have friends who cannot afford dental. They basically have to wait until issues become so bad that they are a) real health problems, or b) unable to work or live normally because of them, then have to get teeth pulled or whatever for hundreds of dollars.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
As far as medication goes in UK, we all pay set price of little over £6.45. Some medication are maybe 20p, but you pay for it £6.45, however if for some reason you had to have a medication which was £20, you'd still pay 6.45.
I think this is fair.
The plan I'm on now, its $1 per perscription.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I am sorry to hear you were diagnosed with diabitis. That must have been terrible, especially since you're young. For some reason I associate diabetes with older people, which is really really wrong, since an astounding number of very young children and young adults have it.
actually, it really isn't that bad. Old people get it very frequently, as do the overweight, but that is normally type 2, and they don't need to take insulin.
Type 1 is seen more in young children, but it can come later in life, usually around my age, and usually accompanying some sort of throat/digestive tract infection. I'm VERY lucky I didn't go into a coma or anything, as I was living for at least 6 months to a year (though, admittedly, the symptoms could go back 4-5 years) as an undiagnosed diabetic.
I thought I had an eating disorder for a long time, which isn't manageable at all, and would essentially be with me for ever.
Diabetes was a pleasant surprise compared to that, and honestly, I feel so much better now than before, like, about everything. Like, I'm even less depressed and more inspired to make music/art.
having a large bio-medical waste bin to fill part way with needles has provided a quite safe and inconspicuous hiding place too, so thats a bonus.
Its also fun to mess with people and tell them they probably have it.
haha, diabetes is the best thing that ever happened to me
Originally posted by inimalist
ha, missed this part initiallyabsolutely!
not only that, but proper mental health care too.
Definitely. My family's insurance (from my mother's job as a teacher) refuses to cover most mental health problems that aren't totally crippling and have tried to weasel out of paying for ones that say they do cover.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Definitely. My family's insurance (from my mother's job as a teacher) refuses to cover most mental health problems that aren't totally crippling and have tried to weasel out of paying for ones that say they do cover.
god, thats ridiculous
good luck man, that stuff is hard even with the proper support
imho, total dereliction of responsibility, and really, ends up costing companies way more in the end due to low productivity and stressed people who hate their jobs (and that is in the cases that aren't crippling)
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Obama's health care "reform" is garbage as well. It would prioritize care based on "probability of longetivy", in other words, it tells old people to fukk off and die. It would also NOT reduce costs.
All I can say is: You dumbass. You fell for that GOP bullshit. 😆
That "arguing" point has long since been debunked as GOP lies.
Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Affordable health care should be a universal right and everyone should have access to it but the problem in the US is our country is so broke and in debt we simply can't afford it at this time.
No, we can afford it.
We just use our money very poorly.
Edit -
And, yes, I read your post, inimalist. It wasn't a tl:dr post.
And before anyone gets the wrong idea about my reply to Dark Cloud, he's my homie and I am NOT a democrat. I'm just pulling his chain.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Edit -And, yes, I read your post, inimalist. It wasn't a tl:dr post.
lol, I don't know anymore. Sometimes I'll put half that and people will complain.
but ya, more on topic, we've been through about as much about health/any reform as there is to go over, this is one thing that I feel could be changed for the better without requiring revolutionary change, just Americans don't seem to want it.
Like, what prevents you from socializing medical insurance, the way Canada does, as opposed to a government run system?