Phoenix II (Rachael) vs The Doctor ( Habib Ben Hassan)

Originally posted by id369
You see, I don’t see how this could be any different from Rachael. If both are given the time to formulate a thought. What keeps him from being trained wrecked by Rachael?

Um. I don't know. I kinda just said that earlier.

It seems like you think I'm arguing for Habib. I'm not. I'm presenting the info that I know, and then stopping when I would be overstepping my knowledge. I do think it would take a lot to "train wreck" the Doctor in a scenario where both are prepared for the fight. Would she overpower him? Sure, eventually. But would she blink him out of existence without a fight? Even battling Galactus like she did isn't enough for me to believe that.

So my post, as it were, is kinda like "Hey, he can do all of these things, and this is how he does it. So if she can counter that stuff or overpower it, she wins. If she can't, she can't." Apparently she can, according to you, and according to those scans, which is cool. I'll co-sign that unless I see something to change my mind.

I am doing both presenting evidence, and falling back on topic. You say, your not siding with Habib. But not initially, or else you would not poke at the fact that the Host has bin susceptible to various forms of attacks. Habib and various other Doctors, have bin susceptible to various attacks as well. I think you realized by now, that both are plagued with similar limitations. What makes you think, Habib will come in Full Blown DEM Doctor, and not Rachael?

Matter Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Reality Warping, High End Psi etc…Rachael as Phoenix II has all these abilities to fall back on, on top of elevating her self to Superhuman stats.

Well if someone wants to man up and argue in favor of Habib. The topic is still open.

Originally posted by id369
I am doing both presenting evidence, and falling back on topic. You say, your not siding with Habib. But not initially, or else you would not poke at the fact that the Host has bin susceptible to various forms of attacks. Habib and various other Doctors, have bin susceptible to various attacks as well. I think you realized by now, that both are plagued with similar limitations. What makes you think, Habib will come in Full Blown DEM Doctor, and not Rachael?

Matter Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Reality Warping, High End Psi etc…Rachael as Phoenix II has all these abilities to fall back on, on top of elevating her self to Superhuman stats.

Well if someone wants to man up and argue in favor of Habib. The topic is still open.

I don't like your tone, so I'm done here. I'm agreeing with you, trying to have a respectful discussion, and now am being subjected to insinuations that I'm not "manning up." If this isn't your intent, you're doing a poor job of making your points in a way that doesn't seem like veiled insults.

I am sorry, but the purpose of this thread for some one to pick a side they feel warrants the victor. And hold his ground as to why, he/she thinks will be the victor.

Being neutral, will not aid the purpose of this topic.

Originally posted by id369
I am sorry, but the purpose of this thread for some one to pick a side they feel warrants the victor. And hold his ground as to why, he/she thinks will be the victor.

Being neutral, will not aid the purpose of this topic.

And I wanted to praise digi for being so open couple of times, but felt that might seem condescending or self-serving as I couldn't phrase it properly.

If you want to emphasize on the educating part, well isn’t that what I was doing, even if I had sided with Rachael?

Take for example:
If the Doctor is limited by thought and preparation. Rachael is no different, and provided scans with what I was explaining, and an example of how she cuts lose if not for her own limitations. Not that I actually wanted to focus “cutting lose” part. Only how Rachael limit’s herself.

Originally posted by id369
If you want to emphasize on the educating part, well isn’t that what I was doing, even if I had sided with Rachael?

Take for example:
If the Doctor is limited by thought and preparation. Rachael is no different, and provided scans with what I was explaining, and an example of how she cuts lose if not for her own limitations. Not that I actually wanted to focus “cutting lose” part. Only how Rachael limit’s herself.

By bringing up what the doctor can do he helps to set the bar of where rachel needs to be, and from the sounds of it he agrees that she's there.

yeah, i agree. digi was walking lightly because while he knows doc, he was less sure about rachel. he was exactly right in felling things out first. how does one pick a side if they aren't aware of the capabilities of both combatants? 😕

he already stated rachel wins. if you're looking for someone to say doc wins, you likely won't find them as this version of rachel would beat him every time.

This version is too powerful?

Then make it Phoenix II, the one that is ranked Mid Herald.

The point is still relatively the same. What can Habib do to contest Rachael?

By the way.. Phoenix 1 was the Raptor manifestation of the phoenix force. phoenix II was the shell that it inhabited as Jean, Phoenix III is Rachel and Phoenix 4 is the real Jean Grey.

Can I say the Doctor wins?

Originally posted by Creshosk
By the way.. Phoenix 1 was the Raptor manifestation of the phoenix force. phoenix II was the shell that it inhabited as Jean, Phoenix III is Rachel and Phoenix 4 is the real Jean Grey.

Indeed, technically Rachael is Phoenix III. But they have her tagged as Phoenix II.