Could Wonderwoman take Skaar/Lyra or WWHulk

Originally posted by Master Court
Dude, I know everything about everything, including the fact that crematoriums cook you at about 1600 degrees. But I never said Diana had to get close to use her lasso. But once that lasso's on, then what? BFR? BFD. Hulk jumps back and smacks her ass on his way to the ground. Then they do that playful fight/foreplay thing that Hulk did with Caiera. And then they get it on. Because Wonder Woman likes powerful men. She likes to be dominated. And Hulk dominates her. And then I can't TELL you what they do with that lasso. Ho, ho, ho.

Bottom line, Diana is physically inferior to Hulk. Even more inferior to WWHulk. Diana's a better fighter. That's it. That's all that can be said. She can fly. She can block attacks. So? Hulk's blocked and deflected planet busting attacks. Even a galaxy busting attack. And her HF is piddly sh*t to Hulk's. So even with an "out-last him" strategy, she'd lose. She moves really fast? So? She couldn't do any lasting damage to Hulk. Her only move would be BFR. Hulk comes right back.

I'm sure you think you're funny, but I assure you that you are not.

No, you don't know everything about everything if you just had to ask me what happens after the lasso is on him. I suggest you take a stroll to the WW Respect thread and read up on exactly what the lasso can do. You might not respect WW, but you should definitely have more respect for the weapons that she carries. Please tell me how Hulk is able to even able to will himself to continue fighting once the lasso is around him? How he is able to resist being bent to Diana's will or how Diana doesn't just dump his soul? There is more she can do as well.

You are also still clinging on to this notion that I am arguing that Diana has to KO him, which I've already repeated is NOT what is going to happen. You're argument of her being physically inferior is irrelevant because no one is saying the she beats him by fighting him physically. The few hits that he might land on her would be deflected by the bracers (another point you ignored) and I don't see this fighting lasting long enough for her to tire and to allow him to finally land some KO'ing blows. You also ignore the speed advantage and downplay the flight advantage. All she has to do is lasso him. It's over after that. Given that she is faster, a lot smarter, has better reflexes, the bracers and can fly, I see that happening before he can KO her. If you want to argue WW vs WWH H2H, go make a thread for it. I'm also not going to respond to your claims about Clark vs WWH either . . .

Fully geared WW is spite. All she needs is her basic equipment to win.

Originally posted by Master Court Sentry didn't burn him out. Sentry's aura reverted him. That's what his aura does. It biologically, not mentally, calms the Hulk. That's why they became friends. The aura eases the background pain Hulk always feels. And that calms him. World Breaker was exerting more power than WWHulk ever had, so it obviously wasn't a burn out. And since World Breaker isn't a persona, and just WWHulk going all-out, it's hard to believe he was burnt out without fighting anywhere near his maximum.

Where does it state that his aura calmed him down? Nowhere does it state that Sentry’s aura calmed him down as far as I can tell. It worked on Savage Hulk, who was as smart as my left toe at times.

In fact, Reed specifically tried to recreate it and it didn’t work against
Green Scar, and it was completely useless. Sentry simply burned him out, in a stalemate.

Yes Green Scar became a lot stronger, but so what? He became a lot angrier so that makes sense. The Hulk’s strength is depended on his anger. He became a lot angrier and hence became a lot stronger. At the point he was fighting Sentry though they both burned out. Just because he wasn’t fighting at his strength limit doesn’t mean anything as the Hulk doesn’t have some sort of set limit does he? Depended on anger, his strength is.

Originally posted by Master Court My point exactly. Anything any Hulk does is achievable and then some by Savage Hulk. That includes pulling planets back together, breaking Colossus' arms, soloing the X-Men, the Fantastic Four. Savage Hulk's soloed the Avengers a million times, only ever getting trouble when Thor showed up. The Banner-Hulk that caught the mountain at a moments notice. And Reed or Ironman pissed him off to keep the strength up. Savage wouldn't need the pep talk. He's proven to be planet busting levels. Even World Breaker, whether Savage Hulk knows it or not, is achievable to him.

Soloed the Avengers a million times? That ain’t true. He gets a lot more than trouble when Thor shows up.

When has Hulk ever pulled planets back together? I’ve never seen that nor heard that ever.

All Green Hulk was, was Savage Hulk’s power set plus a higher strength base as a result of the Warp Core amp. As well, because of his intelligence and training, he has focused rage. Just because he isn’t screaming and talking like an autistic child, doesn’t mean he isn’t getting stronger and so on but obviously he can be pushed.

Originally posted by Master Court I am SO not ignoring Wonder Woman's powers. In this case, her fighting skill is her only advantage. Her strength, speed, and durability are piddly sh*t to WWHulk. WWHulk not only has the arena training and experience, he's got years of countless battles with Thor, Hercules, Gladiator, etc. All these bricks with fighting skills well beyond Hulk's. But Hulk has easily hung/beaten some of them. Thor has hit Hulk with Mjolnir at full strength before, and the fight didn't miss a beat. Hulk took it like it was any other attack. Nevermind the fight or Thor sh*t, I'm establishing Hulk's durability. Savage Hulk, BTW. Diana's most powerful shot would be nowhere near Thor's most powerful shot with Mjolnir.

You really are. Here you go again, and bring up these examples as if she would have to knock him out to win. She doesn’t have to knock him out to win, I repeat one more time.

Her physical capabilities are going to mean nothing? Are you serious? With her combat speed, strength, fighting skills, and so on, even a hit and run tactic would be effective unto a point. In all honesty she has an instant win, which is her Lasso.

Full strength? What did I tell you last time? Thor not holding back against a mortal for one instance doesn’t mean shit compared to his full strength. Thor has casually knocked out the Silver Surfer when blood lusted, someone who is a hell of a lot more durable and can tank a hell of a lot more than the Hulk without too much of a problem when in the past he could not. Even when his life is in danger, and he says his best efforts, cannot do anything, he still holds back ridiculous amounts of power. It’s his character. Even against gods who can kill him, he holds back. I’ve seen him damage Mangog with a blow upside the head and manhandle him when the Universe at stake when before he was beaten into unconsciousness and said he could do nothing. His reserve of strength is ridiculous. So don’t try and tell me with a straight face that was Thor’s strongest blow. He can easily hit with planet shattering force, and he didn’t even hit with that level of strength ever as far as I can tell in their fights. It’s simply in his character. Even when his life was in danger, and his attacks were not doing anything despite his best efforts to stop a being who would beat him to the brink of death, he goes on to one shot the same being when Sif is in danger. That’s Thor.

Originally posted by Master Court And again, with the Sentry stuff, I'm establishing the power level of WWHulk. Sentry's a notoriously stupid/bad fighter. So nevermind that. I'm simply pointing out Sentry's maximum power didn't even really phase WWHulk. WWHulk seemed bored the whole time, except a few angry faces when getting hit.

Hulk and Sentry were going toe to toe just to point on. There is no need to establish his level of power. I read the entire arc before. I know everything he did there.

Originally posted by Master Court It's called reaction speed. Hulk's got bundles of it. Supersonic reaction speed is standard. He's gone faster. Besides, her bracelets can't block the shockwave of a hearty thunderclap, no matter if she's flying or not.

Hasn’t Thing been called faster than the Hulk in combat? Just point that out. His head fast beings before.

His reaction time is worth shit against Wonder Woman. She has faster than light combat speed and it’s superior to even Superman in that regard. He is not hitting her if she doesn’t want to get hit, plain and simple. She doesn’t fight like bricks when she fights smart. It’s the Aegis effect. They can block anything. Even wide spread energy attacks. I’ve seen her entire vicinity engulfed by a fire, and she used them to absorb/deflect the attack. Even in the centre of a powerful omni directional explosion they have deflected the attack. It can deflect/block anything really. It’s deflected sonic attacks in the past before. Thunder claps would be no problem, and it’s not as if it would be significantly effective in the first place.

Originally posted by Master CourtBottom line; he throws a punch, she blocks it, he snags her arms, and headbutts her ten times. If she's in the air, she gets a thunderclap. She lands somewhere, and Hulk lands right on top of her. He's been shown as jumping much faster than military fighter jets. So he lands, and she gets that big Hulk punch. You know the one where he's fully extended his arm and burying his opponent's head in the ground with rocks flying out?

That entire scenario is utter bullshit and you know it. Your completely ignoring her power set, abilities, weapons and skills.

Originally posted by Master Court And as for the rope sh*t? Yeah right. Hulk could duck it or jump out of it before she can tighten it. Supersonic reactions, remember?

His reactions are not going to save him shit against Wonder Woman and her speed. For Christ sake she’s lassoed Zoom when blind. If she wants to Lasso him, it’ll be on him and tightened before he even knows what happens.

Originally posted by Master Court Diana's a much better fighter. That's it. Flying gives her a safe haven, but not an advantage. The most anyone could come up with for her is a strategy to survive and delay WWHulk until someone showed up to help. Help that would be quickly annihilated. But she would definitely never stand a chance against WWHulk. Not early on, and sure as f*ck not later.

You’re completely underestimating Diana. She has the strength necessary to rock his world, and with her speed, even hit and run tactics would be effective unto a point. Hell, a single punch from She-Hulk to the face had the Hulk bleeding for entire pages. His durability was shit in that arc. It was his healing factor that incredibly impressive. Anyways, throwing in her weapons and there really isn’t any reason she should lose like I said unless she goes blow for blow with him.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx

You? Uh, shut up. Yeah. WW is not spite for WWHulk under any circumstances. And Hulk is impossible to control. The few people that have pulled it off, eventually lose control. He doesn't bend to anyone's will. And nevermind what happened on Sakaar with the obedience disks. I'm ignoring it because it hurts my argument, as does the fact that it's impossible to disobey the power of the lasso.

Second, I don't tell jokes for your amusement. Whatever I say is for my own pleasure and keeps my d*ck hard 24 hours a day. That's why you'll never see me saying the same damn thing ALL the time like everybody else. And the really funny part is that I could even say something really f'd up but true, and you could still think I'm just f'ing around. And THAT, my friend, is where the real erection comes from. Confessing guilt and having no one care is like having your cake and eating it, too. I've already done it here quite a few times, and I'm loving every minute of it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Where does it state that his aura calmed him down? Nowhere does it state that Sentry’s aura calmed him down as far as I can tell. It worked on Savage Hulk, who was as smart as my left toe at times.

In fact, Reed specifically tried to recreate it and it didn’t work against
Green Scar, and it was completely useless. Sentry simply burned him out, in a stalemate.

Yes Green Scar became a lot stronger, but so what? He became a lot angrier so that makes sense. The Hulk’s strength is depended on his anger. He became a lot angrier and hence became a lot stronger. At the point he was fighting Sentry though they both burned out. Just because he wasn’t fighting at his strength limit doesn’t mean anything as the Hulk doesn’t have some sort of set limit does he? Depended on anger, his strength is.

Reed's device didn't work because it wasn't legit. It couldn't be, for story purposes. They couldn't have Reed whip out a calming device every time Hulk went on a rampage. The device failed. And it's been said a million times that Sentry's aura calms the Hulk. What's NEVER been said is that Hulk burnt himself out. They never said that anywhere. And WWHulk wasn't even fighting at maximum. Even at World Breaker levels he was holding back, so we never even saw a potential maximum, especially since it was hinted that he could have destroyed the entire planet with absolute ease. Fact is, Hulk doesn't lose power. He gains it, constantly. He has no maximum output. Remember Apoc's machines? Celestial tech. According to Apoc's readings, he said Hulk possess the potential to generate enough energy to challenge the Celestials themselves. Hulk does not run out of energy. Ever. Just because he's physically reached a certain limit in response to steady anger, doesn't mean his energy is limited. He doesn't tire. He doesn't run out of gamma. And yet, there's a perfectly clear and logical explanation for his transformation into Banner. Sentry's aura. Sentry's aura biologically effects Hulk and hinders his ability to get stronger.

You've made a good argument, so I've considered another possibility, somewhat of a common ground. If Hulk did indeed "burn himself out", it's still not in any way an indication of a limit on Hulk's power, as it is still a result of Sentry's aura. While being biologically calmed, and therefore biologically hindered, ie limited, it's possible Hulk's energy ran out, but only because of Sentry's aura effect capping Hulk's power and likely slowing or stopping the generation of gamma. In all of Hulk's years, he has never shown the potential to burn out, no matter who he was fighting. So no Sentry aura, and only Sentry's aura, no burn out. Your thoughts? Or was this perhaps what you were already trying to say?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Soloed the Avengers a million times? That ain’t true. He gets a lot more than trouble when Thor shows up.

When has Hulk ever pulled planets back together? I’ve never seen that nor heard that ever.

Oh, I didn't mean he pulled the whole planet back together. But he pulled the land back together during huge earthquakes on Jarella's world. Yeah, anywho, moving on...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

All Green Hulk was, was Savage Hulk’s power set plus a higher strength base as a result of the Warp Core amp. As well, because of his intelligence and training, he has focused rage. Just because he isn’t screaming and talking like an autistic child, doesn’t mean he isn’t getting stronger and so on but obviously he can be pushed.

You really are. Here you go again, and bring up these examples as if she would have to knock him out to win. She doesn’t have to knock him out to win, I repeat one more time.

Her physical capabilities are going to mean nothing? Are you serious? With her combat speed, strength, fighting skills, and so on, even a hit and run tactic would be effective unto a point. In all honesty she has an instant win, which is her Lasso.

Oh, I know about Wonder Woman's powers and abilities. I was just cheesing the other guy because he was giving me static.

My point is that Wonder Woman far from "stomps" WWHulk. Even with the lasso. Great, the no-KO is accepted. But this idea that Wonder Woman pwns with her lasso is a bit over-exaggerated. As I basically see the "bend to my will" play as a waste of time, considering - although it would most likely work - this thread isn't "Can Wonder Woman make WWHulk submit", it's a versus. Subduing Hulk, making Hulk submit, or BFR'ing him with the lasso is not really a win at all. It's avoiding a fight. Not a victory. The thread calls for a fight. Now if Wonder Woman did all that sh*t with her bare hands, that's something. Otherwise, it's not her, it's the lasso. And Hulk has beaten people stronger and faster than Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Full strength? What did I tell you last time? Thor not holding back against a mortal for one instance doesn’t mean shit compared to his full strength. That’s Thor.

^
(OMITTED FOR ROOM)

If you're not holding back, that means a very large amount of effort is put into it. And Hulk was more or less unphased by that particular shot. Thor didn't say he has always held back, or how much he holds back. Since he wasn't holding back there, his absolute (non WM)maximum can't be assumed to do too much more damage. Wonder Woman is nowhere near Thor in strength. So if WWHulk is pissed, Wonder Woman's strength really won't be enough to challenge his durability, even if she blitzes. But I don't need to argue that, since it seems it's been agreed she couldn't KO WWHulk and without the lasso she's screwed.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hulk and Sentry were going toe to toe just to point on. There is no need to establish his level of power. I read the entire arc before. I know everything he did there.

Hasn’t Thing been called faster than the Hulk in combat? Just point that out. His head fast beings before.

Thing is SO not faster than Hulk. Not at all.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That entire scenario is utter bullshit and you know it. Your completely ignoring her power set, abilities, weapons and skills.

You’re completely underestimating Diana. She has the strength necessary to rock his world, and with her speed, even hit and run tactics would be effective unto a point. Hell, a single punch from She-Hulk to the face had the Hulk bleeding for entire pages. His durability was shit in that arc. It was his healing factor that incredibly impressive. Anyways, throwing in her weapons and there really isn’t any reason she should lose like I said unless she goes blow for blow with him.

I was goofing around with the punch, kick, bite, crap. When has any fight ever gone like that, man? I was just saying that when Wonder Woman get's bored of flying around Hulk and slugging him, assuming she doesn't use her lasso, Hulk eventually, sometime before the end of the world, gets his hands on her. Whether it's because she screws up or dies of old age, who can say? But Hulk can outlast her, heal any damage, and one good right cross from a pissed Hulk is all it would take to lay her out and/or give him ample opportunity to press the attack and knock her lights out. His durability was awkward, yes, but like you said, HF was off the charts. Whether it was full power Cyclops' beams, a hundred thousand rounds of adamantium bullets of varying caliber, a Hulk-powered-punch from Strong Guy, a relentless beating from Sentry, getting his neck broken, Hulk healed from every last thing. He can't be killed. He was never KO'd until he let himself get KO'd. Savage Hulk is one thing. But WWHulk is beyond Wonder Woman. Her lasso is the only problem, if you insist on counting the lasso stuff as a win. Which doesn't make sense; you win a fight by avoiding it? If she doesn't throw a single punch, it's not a fight. The minute she uses her lasso for the insta-win crap, it's a forfeit.

Originally posted by Badabing
Did you see my post or just disregard it? Next time it's a warning.

what a killjoy 🙄