Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not really, if you have the Gun to his head. He had him at his mercy when he pounded his face in. He could have kept going etc. He stopped. Deadpool could have won if he wanted too.So he hallucinated.
You're really over-complicated that fight.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusWhat faulty logic? I simply stated if you want to rationalize it in such a manner you can go ahead and do it.
This a pure hand to hand fight against Shang-Chi. Really, there's no way he can win this if you look at it. Especially with these boards rules. His physically superior, more skilled, and has the ability to amp with Shang-Chi. Unless there are some circumstances in play like there are in comics, there is no justification for him to lose, no matter how you look at this.
Man you kinda dodged the point I just made. You dont think that Bullseye, Daredevil, Moon Knight, Kraven (whos beaten Black Pnather) could get some wins over over Shang Chi?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You're really over-complicated that fight.
Simply making a statement based on the observation of that fight, and Deadpool's character.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Man you kinda dodged the point I just made. You dont think that Bullseye, Daredevil, Moon Knight, Kraven (whos beaten Black Pnather) could get some wins over over Shang Chi?
Not really.
In a straight up fist fight, without any gear? They could. Personally with his chi amping and capabilities, I see him winning over most of them. Punisher on the other hand shouldn't. Especially going by the KMC Board rules. Without any circumstances, gear, plot or just straight up luck, he has in comics, there simply isn't any reason for him to win in a straight up fist fight. His physically inferior, less skilled, and so on. There is no logical way he should win. I'm not downplaying Punisher, or attempting to insult him. It's just a logical observation based on their respective abilities.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusIn a straight up fist fight, without any gear? They could.
Exactly, how are you managing to overcomplicate things then?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Punisher on the other hand shouldn't. Especially going by the KMC Board rules. Without any circumstances, gear, plot or just straight up luck, he has in comics,
Ok please explain what luck he had in stalematng Kravemn, Bullseyes, DD and MK details please.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
there simply isn't any reason for him to win in a straight up fist fight. His physically inferior, less skilled, and so on. There is no logical way he should win. I'm not downplaying Punisher, or attempting to insult him. It's just a logical observation based on their respective abilities.
You're basically making a statement reepating it again withjout backing it up with anything and basically fobbing off any good showings that Puynisher has as PIS.
The logic you are using could be applied to Bullseye, DD and Kraven, all those guys have enhancements and you probably consider them more skilled.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Exactly, how are you managing to overcomplicate things then?
Could =/= Would.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok please explain what luck he had in stalematng Kravemn, Bullseyes, DD and MK details please.
Did I mention those specific ones? If you want my opinion on those specific fights, post the scans of all their fights, so I can re-read them and make an observation in regards to them.
He fought Moon Knight, Bullseye, and the likes for a page or two?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You're basically making a statement reepating it again withjout backing it up with anything and basically fobbing off any good showings that Puynisher has as PIS.The logic you are using could be applied to Bullseye, DD and Kraven, all those guys have enhancements and you probably consider them more skilled.
Not plot induced stupidity, but plot and so on. Your honestly telling me that gear, circumstances and other things have not played in his favor in the past or allowed him to hold his own against his superiors? How do you think he survives against guys like Wolverine and Spider-Man?
Daredevil beat him every single time as I recall. He gave Bullseye a bloody nose, when he was toying with him, then they knocked eacth other down. The second fight, Frank wins by putting a gun to his head. I don't recall the Kraven incident well enough to comment on it unfortunately.
No one is denying his skilled, or impressive physically he is. You do not need to prove that to me by referencing his fights.
Yes, hence the reference to plot. On these boards he shouldn't beat someone physically superior and skilled. He shouldn't beat someone if he doesn't hold any single advantage, in a fight. Hence why comics are comics. Based on any logical thinking, a man cannot beat another man in a fist fight, when one man, is stronger, faster, more skilled, and holds every advantage in a scenario, unless outside circumstances play in. There's no way to get around that and the rules of these boards. Hence why he loses every single time to Shang-Chi.
So what's exactly is your point here? Do you think Punisher beats Shang-Chi? If so how? Mind you this is a straight up fist fight on KMC.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusDid I mention those specific ones? If you want my opinion on those specific fights, post the scans of all their fights, so I can re-read them and make an observation in regards to them.
He fought Moon Knight, Bullseye, and the likes for a page or two?
Im not sure if I wanna do that especially how you've been debating in Thor vs Hulk thread (or whatever). No doubt you will probably start over analysing it. Well heres one.
Another one.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/ms_-_moon_knight_v3_021_p09.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/ms_-_moon_knight_v3_021_p10.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/ms_-_moon_knight_v3_021_p11.jpg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusNot plot induced stupidity, but plot and so on. Your honestly telling me that gear, circumstances and other things have not played in his favor in the past or allowed him to hold his own against his superiors?
LOL there was no plot hell when he fought Kraven The Hunter he had just blacked out and fought several meta-humans. You are just making assumptions because of your misconception on his skills.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How do you think he survives against guys like Wolverine and Spider-Man?
Thats ABC logic that doesn not apply to the people I mentioned.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Daredevil beat him every single time as I recall.
No he hasnt Punisher has actually had some good showings against DD I might get them later.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He gave Bullseye a bloody nose, when he was toying with him, then they knocked eacth other down. The second fight, Frank wins by putting a gun to his head. I don't recall the Kraven incident well enough to comment on it unfortunately.No one is denying his skilled, or impressive physically he is. You do not need to prove that to me by referencing his fights.
Yes, hence the reference to plot. On these boards he shouldn't beat someone physically superior and skilled. He shouldn't beat someone if he doesn't hold any single advantage, in a fight. Hence why comics are comics. Based on any logical thinking, a man cannot beat another man in a fist fight, when one man, is stronger, faster, more skilled, and holds every advantage in a scenario, unless outside circumstances play in. There's no way to get around that and the rules of these boards. Hence why he loses every single time to Shang-Chi.
So what's exactly is your point here? Do you think Punisher beats Shang-Chi? If so how? Mind you this is a straight up fist fight on KMC.
This stuff about the plot is exaggerated, its happened in some fights but you are blowing things out of proportion.
Shang beats Pun 7/10.
ur like talking to a ****ing wall.
do you get this? SHang-chi superior in every single way, this is not some comic were one person can be fighting at his best, when the other is not. Shang-chi is not going to be dumb down for any of the fights. He the more skill, physically superior fighter what dont u get? god your a fanboy.
Shang-chi not DP he not bullseye he more skill and phsycially superior to them. He does not get cocky or make stupid jokes and moves. He not like that his cis won't effect his preformances that Bullseye or DP.
yea punisher e beats shang-chi 3 times even though shang-chi more skilled, physically superior and wait for it can uses range chi attacks, which could end it in a hit.......
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im not sure if I wanna do that especially how you've been debating in Thor vs Hulk thread (or whatever). No doubt you will probably start over analysing it. Well heres one.
What's wrong with my debating? What you call over analyzing, I call, a simple observation. There is nothing wrong with giving a thorough opinion on a subject.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneAnother one.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/ms_-_moon_knight_v3_021_p09.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/ms_-_moon_knight_v3_021_p10.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg236/MoonKnight616/ms_-_moon_knight_v3_021_p11.jpg
Punisher and Bullseye trade blows for a little over a page then he pulls out a gun and wins? That's supposed to prove something? Gear, circumstance, plot etc. It's in his favor here.
Punisher antagonizes Moon Knight by pushing his buttons, messing with his mind in turn throwing of his game, and reducing his effectiveness in a fight. They then trade blows for about two pages. Moon Knight then gets the upper hand and it's stopped by Spider-Man. What would you say is in play here? Could it be plot and/or circumstances in favor of Punisher? You tell me.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL there was no plot hell when he fought Kraven The Hunter he had just blacked out and fought several meta-humans. You are just making assumptions because of your misconception on his skills.
You state their is no plot involved then you go on to say he beats Kraven the Hunter in a weakened state? Seriously?
Post the scans. It'll be fun to read it again.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats ABC logic that doesn not apply to the people I mentioned.
Not them specifically, but the people he fights and how he survives in general.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No he hasnt Punisher has actually had some good showings against DD I might get them later.
Punisher has no wins against him, while I believe Daredevil has 3 or two. One of their fights was interrupted as I recall.
Go ahead.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
This stuff about the plot is exaggerated, its happened in some fights but you are blowing things out of proportion.Shang beats Pun 7/10.
If you say so. I don't believe I'm blowing it out of proportion at all. I'm simply stating a conclusion based on the observation of his fights in general with different level of opponents.
I again ask you one more time, what is your justification for giving Punisher even one win over Shang-Chi? How does he win even once, against an opponent who is superior in every way, more skilled, and can amp himself with chi energy and use it for other purposes? How does Punisher even get one win?
Shang-Chi wins 10/10. There is absolutely no reason he should lose even once, in a straight up fist fight, without gear, or circumstances, especially based on KMC Rules where everyone fights at full capacity and such. No logical reason at all. It doesn't mean he goes down without fighting every single time, or doesn't put up any defense.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What's wrong with my debating? What you call over analyzing, I call, a simple observation. There is nothing wrong with giving a thorough opinion on a subject.Punisher and Bullseye trade blows for a little over a page then he pulls out a gun and wins? That's supposed to prove something? Gear, circumstance, plot etc. It's in his favor here.
LOL thats exactly what im talking about Bulleye didnt do anything because he was already beaten. He obvoulsy didnt move because he was too stunned.
Making assumptions again. How do you know he was less effective if hes spissed he could actually be more dangerous. Hell a pissed off spiderman beat the Iron Man 2020 to a pulp.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Punisher antagonizes Moon Knight by pushing his buttons, messing with his mind in turn throwing of his game, and reducing his effectiveness in a fight. They then trade blows for about two pages.[QUOTE=12190973]Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
[B] Moon Knight then gets the upper hand and it's stopped by Spider-Man. What would you say is in play here? Could it be plot and/or circumstances in favor of Punisher? You tell me.
He doesnt get the upperhand thats an assumption you're making.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You state their is no plot involved then you go on to say he beats Kraven the Hunter in a weakened state? Seriously?Post the scans. It'll be fun to read it again.
Hell yes, dont think I will.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL thats exactly what im talking about Bulleye didnt do anything because he was already beaten. He obvoulsy didnt move because he was too stunned.
Beaten already? Dude, Punisher punches him, then we see him pull out a gun, and hold it to his head. We've seen Bullseye take a hell of a lot of damage and keep on coming for him to be beaten by a punch from Punisher.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Making assumptions again. How do you know he was less effective if hes spissed he could actually be more dangerous. Hell a pissed off spiderman beat the Iron Man 2020 to a pulp.
Dude, read your own scans. Moon Knight's thoughts indicate he is less effective. He isn't in control of himself. He isn't even in control over his actions really. He stated his reacting before he even realizes it and so on. Spider-Man doesn't apply here. He basically fights off instinct anyways.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He doesnt get the upperhand thats an assumption you're making.
Nah, an observation. Moon Knight started hitting un-returned blows until Spider-Man steps in.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hell yes, dont think I will.
Okay.
Let's continue this tomorrow. It's late, I'm going to bed.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Beaten already? Dude, Punisher punches him, then we see him pull out a gun, and hold it to his head.
Thats exactly what im talking about, why did Bullseye allow him to reach for his gun and pull it to his head? Its not like that was done quickly becuase it took three panels.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
We've seen Bullseye take a hell of a lot of damage and keep on coming for him to be beaten by a punch from Punisher.
Really? Ive seen him easily get stunned by Dardevil's punches.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Dude, read your own scans. Moon Knight's thoughts indicate he is less effective. He isn't in control of himself. He isn't even in control over his actions really. He stated his reacting before he even realizes it and so on. Spider-Man doesn't apply here. He basically fights off instinct anyways.
Thats true but just because he was pissed off doesnt neccesarily make him less effective in that situation he would be running on instinct and that could actually make him better. Furthermore trying to evade a sweep is not the sign of somebody whos not in control.
Yeah Spiderman applies just fine his SS and superhuman states make him a challenge for trained martial artists.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Nah, an observation. Moon Knight started hitting un-returned blows until Spider-Man steps in.
Assumption, you've never seen a fight where in one part of it a fighter gets un-returned blows before but the other fighter steps up afterwards?
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneHe didnt stalemate Deadpool twice. He only fought him h2h once and Deadpool was holding back big time, he didn't want Frank dead.
Pun has stalemated Kraven The Hunter and actually had the advantage over an armed DP. Hell a poster has stated hes stalemated DP twice and ive seen at least one of those scans. He could get 2 wins against Shang.
On-topic. Shang loses. Bad.
Originally posted by SamZED
He only fought him h2h once and Deadpool was holding back big time, he didn't want Frank dead.
Not killing somebody doesnt mean yoru not willing to beat the crap out of them. Crossbones once was ordered not to kill Cap, but decided he would beat the pulp out of him....I wouldnt really call that holding back.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Pun has stalemated Kraven The Hunter
Originally posted by Mrblonde
Didn't Cat beat down Deadpool and Hasn't Shang beaten Cat multiple times ? And honestly Frank is a non factor here.
Gonna say this is 5/10 split, because Shang's martial superiority is tempered slightly by DP's healing factor.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneBut he WAS holding back, he clearly wanted to end the fight and to reason with Frank. I mean he could've snapped his neck. Im not trying to downlplay Frank's fighting skills but he's no Deadpool.
Not killing somebody doesnt mean yoru not willing to beat the crap out of them. Crossbones once was ordered not to kill Cap, but decided he would beat the pulp out of him....I wouldnt really call that holding back.
Originally posted by EnyalusYou mean that "fight" where Deadpool spent most of the time admiring him instead of fighting him? He was too busy trying to check Cat's tatoo to actually pay attention to the fight. Either way, that's an A>B>C logic, it doesnt work. Deadpool stalemated IF twice, so what.
I thought The Cat's only stalemated Shang, twice? But either way, yeah, Cat's beaten DP easily.
