Originally posted by Enyalus
DP has kicked Kraven's ass. 😄
Which one because theres two? Kraven also beat Black Panther...and?
Originally posted by SamZED
But he WAS holding back, he clearly wanted to end the fight and to reason with Frank. I mean he could've snapped his neck.
I think your reading too much into it im pretty sure there are lots of serious fights were he hasnt done that.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok so if im refering to the second Kraven how is that relevant?
The second one was trained by the original, there father and son. so it quite relevant in a debate about kraven, however neither is relevant in proving a case against shang-chi when there inferior to him
Originally posted by Battlehammer
How is kraven relevant with shang-chi to begin with?The second one was trained by the original, there father and son. so it quite relevant in a debate about kraven, however neither is relevant in proving a case against shang-chi when there inferior to him
Read my posts and see how its relevant.
Originally posted by SamZED
😕 Yes due to skill alone, thats a fact. Read the fights again.
as for there fight in civil war, not sure that much of a compliment to DP that he could only stalemate some one who was mimicking anothers style.
Originally posted by BattlehammerAnd you came up to that concusion how? Hell, Deadpool hit Punisher's nose harder than that in suicide kings, he doesnt have a hf and he was far from koed. And its not like comicbook characters without hfs never been hit like that and even harder without getting knocked out. Again, in th fight they've landed the same amount of attacks and the fight seemed pretty equel and in civil war DP slapped a freaking i-pod to IF back and he didn't even notice. That could've been a granade or a knife if DP wanted. So yeah, due to pure skill
have, a knee in the face like that would have KO DP easily if not for his healing factor. It was not skill that allowed him to stalemate IF.as for there fight in civil war, not sure that much of a compliment to DP that he could only stalemate some one who was mimicking anothers style.
Originally posted by SamZED
And you came up to that concusion how? Hell, Deadpool hit Punisher's nose harder than that in suicide kings, he doesnt have a hf and he was far from koed. And its not like comicbook characters without hfs never been hit like that and even harder without getting knocked out. Again, in th fight they've landed the same amount of attacks and the fight seemed pretty equel and in civil war DP slapped a freaking i-pod to IF back and he didn't even notice. That could've been a granade or a knife if DP wanted. So yeah, due to pure skill
So what does slapping an I-pod have to do with h2h skill? nothing. And what worse IF was mimicking some one elses style and all DP could do was stalemate him tisk tisk
Originally posted by BattlehammerI dont because its not. hf or not if that hit was so hard he still would've fell on the ground and healed afterwards but it didnt even break his nose. And what scans do you want to see? Of characters without hf being hit harder than that and not getting koed? Seriously, you're trying to downplay DP's skills and support it with an ASSUPMTION you've made. The fight was a stalemate, DP didnt punch IF in the face thanks to his healing factor but thanks to his skills and NOTHING really suggests that he would've been koed if it wasnt for the hf.
So punisher has superhuman like damage soak, and I like to see scans. DP should have been dropped if he did not have a healing factor and lets say he some how manage not to, there no way he could have been hit like that and then right away able to grap IF leg like he did, that was due to a healing factor not skill, not even sure how you can't see that.
Originally posted by BattlehammerBecause mimicking someone else's style for someone like IF is really hard? Besides it doesnt seem like he was trying all that hard seeing how Deadpool figured its him. And slapping an i-pod has something to do with the fighting speed. Simply proves that if DP wanted to he could've easilly stabbed IF with a dagger during the fight and that DOES have a lot to do with fighting skills.
So what does slapping an I-pod have to do with h2h skill? nothing. And what worse IF was mimicking some one elses style and all DP could do was stalemate him tisk tisk
Originally posted by Phantom Zone Thats exactly what im talking about, why did Bullseye allow him to reach for his gun and pull it to his head? Its not like that was done quickly becuase it took three panels.
Just because it showed us every action, him reaching for the gun, and him pulling it out, does not mean it took long. Just trying to point that out, as well as Punisher can draw his guns extremely quickly.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone Really? Ive seen him easily get stunned by Dardevil's punches.
Daredevil is extremely strong, and with his skills knows how to maximize the efficiency of his blows. I’ve seen him get run over by a truck and not get taken out.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone Thats true but just because he was pissed off doesnt neccesarily make him less effective in that situation he would be running on instinct and that could actually make him better. Furthermore trying to evade a sweep is not the sign of somebody whos not in control.
His emotions were clouding his mind. He was not in control over himself. That’s heavily implied and shown. For someone like Moon Knight, fighting against another skilled opponent would be an extreme disadvantage, if he is not in control over himself, or his actions. Great he isn’t suicidal as he actually defends himself. That doesn’t change that his mental state would put him or any other fighter relying on fighting skill at a disadvantage.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone Yeah Spiderman applies just fine his SS and superhuman states make him a challenge for trained martial artists.
You completely missed my point. Spider-Man does not truly apply here. Spider-Man doesn’t rely on skill but on his instincts and superhuman powers. If anger clouded his mind, it would be an asset as he relies on nothing more than his own instincts as it is as shown throughout his history, although he would be more reckless. It would be a disadvantage for a trained martial artist fighting another skilled opponent who is in control. Moon Knight relies on his skills, focus and training. Anger and emotion clouding his mind, and forcing him to react before he can stop himself and so on would not be in his favor.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone Assumption, you've never seen a fight where in one part of it a fighter gets un-returned blows before but the other fighter steps up afterwards?
True fights can be turned around and it happens all the time. A handful of blows do not mean as much in the long run, but the momentum and advantage would still be in favor of the fighter who is giving the un-returned blows no matter what happens afterward unless a said fighter is holding back etc. Like I said, at that moment, Moon Knight had the advantage. Momentum was in his side. I’m not saying Punisher cannot react and counter him as it moves along.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Just because it showed us every action, him reaching for the gun, and him pulling it out, does not mean it took long. Just trying to point that out, as well as Punisher can draw his guns extremely quickly.
Didnt say it took long, the point I was making that there would have been enough time for somebody as fast as Bullseye to react. Punisher was in no hurry to pull his gun, hell even in the second panel when Punisher grabs his neck Bullseye still doesnt do anything. What person allows somebody to grab them from behind if theres something they could do?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Daredevil is extremely strong, and with his skills knows how to maximize the efficiency of his blows. I’ve seen him get run over by a truck and not get taken out.
I hope this clears things up.
http://img73.imageshack.us/i/punisherusagent2at3.jpg/
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His emotions were clouding his mind. He was not in control over himself. That’s heavily implied and shown. For someone like Moon Knight, fighting against another skilled opponent would be an extreme disadvantage, if he is not in control over himself, or his actions. Great he isn’t suicidal as he actually defends himself. That doesn’t change that his mental state would put him or any other fighter relying on fighting skill at a disadvantage.You completely missed my point. Spider-Man does not truly apply here. Spider-Man doesn’t rely on skill but on his instincts and superhuman powers. If anger clouded his mind, it would be an asset as he relies on nothing more than his own instincts as it is as shown throughout his history, although he would be more reckless. It would be a disadvantage for a trained martial artist fighting another skilled opponent who is in control. Moon Knight relies on his skills, focus and training. Anger and emotion clouding his mind, and forcing him to react before he can stop himself and so on would not be in his favor.
No I didnt miss anything . Anyway a pissed off Batman beat up one of Banes henchmen who was a skilled MA, and used rage to help him defeat Bane.
Pissed off doesnt neccsarily mean less effective. In fact skilled martial artists can tend to still be able to apply skill when pissed, characters like Spiderman can make themselves less effective. Oh and DD was able to defeat a pissed off Spiderman because he was angry, so there goes your theory.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
True fights can be turned around and it happens all the time. A handful of blows do not mean as much in the long run, but the momentum and advantage would still be in favor of the fighter who is giving the un-returned blows no matter what happens afterward unless a said fighter is holding back etc. Like I said, at that moment, Moon Knight had the advantage. Momentum was in his side. I’m not saying Punisher cannot react and counter him as it moves along.
Great. Punisher was in no way being curbstomped and if anything MK only did slightly better.
