Anakin Skywalker vs. Darth Vader (NO FORCE)

I can agree with that, Miss, and on some level, Wolverine. In the RotS novel, it's stated that Dooku's mastery of the Force is a "joke" compared to Anakin's rage, which does indicate to me that it's likely he wouldn't have been able to launch an assault with the Force without dying, as you point out Miss. As you said, Wolverine, Dooku was on the defensive, and so was Vader.

That's why I think the battle with Mace and Sidious could have played out differently if Sidious did manage to use the Force before being disarmed. Either way, the point I was trying to make was that in a lightsaber duel, Luke did overwhelm Vader, and this is a saber-only match, hence why I brought it up.

Originally posted by Advent

That's why I think the battle with Mace and Sidious could have played out differently if Sidious did manage to use the Force before being disarmed. Either way, the point I was trying to make was that in a lightsaber duel, Luke did overwhelm Vader, and this is a saber-only match, hence why I brought it up.

But as far as the invisible hand duel go, couldn't dooku have fared a lot better if he launched a force assault on anakin the moment before he gets knocked onto the first level and anakins ownage begins?(i think it did began the moment he made the mistake of taunting anakin.)

I mean its true that the novel did state that his mastery of the force was made a joked when anakin started barraging down on dooku but either way he still would have left himself open to attack if he attempted to use the force.

Thats why i'm starting to think that timing of when your using the force is crucial in a duel because if your opponent starts to overwhelm you in a saber fight, you can almost do nothing with the force seeing you have to stand your ground or your going to get cleaved in half.

i love the 3 strokes at the end, where he just holds his lightsaber up, and leans into the railing. Pretty hilarious coreography that.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Point taken 😄

But as far as the invisible hand duel go, couldn't dooku have fared a lot better if he launched a force assault on anakin the moment before he gets knocked onto the first level and anakins ownage begins?(i think it did began the moment he made the mistake of taunting anakin.)

If your interested Wolverine heres the quote

Dooku could feel how Skywalker kept his fury banked behind walls of will: walls that were hardened by some uncontrollable dread.

Dread, Dooku surmised, of himself. Of what might happen if he should ever allow that furnace he used for a heart to go supercritical.

Dooku slipped aside from an overhand chop and sprang backward. "I sense great fear in you. You are consumed by it. Hero With No Fear, indeed. You're a fraud, Skywalker. You are nothing but a posturing child."

He pointed his lightsaber at the young Jedi like an accusing finger. "Aren't you a little old to be afraid of the dark?"

Skywalker leapt for him again, and this time Dooku met the boy's charge easily. They stood nearly toe-to-toe, blades flashing faster than the eye could see, but Skywalker had lost his edge: a simple taunt was all that had been required to shift the focus of his attention from winning the fight to controlling his own emotions...

...Then Sidious, for some reason, decided to intervene.

"Don't fear what you're feeling, Anakin, use it!" he barked in Palpatine's voice. "Call upon your fury. Focus it, and he cannot stand against you. Rage is your weapon. Strike now! Strike! Kill him!"...

...This is the death of Count Dooku:

A starburst of clarity blossoms within Anakin Skywalker's mind, when he says to himself Oh. I get it, now and discovers that the fear within his heart can be a weapon, too.

It is that simple, and that complex.

And it is final.

Dooku is dead already. The rest is mere detail.

So Anakins ownage begins when Sidious betrays him, before he taunted Skywalker he was pushing Dooku back. Then the duel would of reached the same conclusion in a longer timeframe.

The movie doesn't show sidious encouraging anakin.

Gideon brought up that certain parts of the movie retcon the novel and the ownage clearly began when dooku taunted anakin.

In a non-force battle between Anakin and Vader, Anakin wipes the floor with him. He's too quick, agile and unhinged. Vader is a beast, don't get me worn, and incredibly strong and great tactical mind, but Anakin is all those things, but younger, faster and more ferocious.

Long time no see man.

This fight shouldn't even happen, how exactly are they going to face each other when they are the same exact person?

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Long time no see man.

This fight shouldn't even happen, how exactly are they going to face each other when they are the same exact person?

...

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
...

You know how many fights that we ask about could never happen? Its all "what ifs." Its a more direct way to compare and contrast two or more characters attributes. You can't say that even though they are the same physical person that they're the same character. Different views, beliefs, overall mentalities, and obviously, different bodies.

It's a fair comparison.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
If vader was truly going all out against luke then why didn't he unleash his beastly command of the force to stop him? Like he did to a far superior duelist and force user like galen marek who was more capable of actually tearing vader apart?

The dark woman was no anakin skywalker, but she was definately above average being able to phase through solid walls and has a command over flaura and fauna.

EDIT.

But i think its possible that vader was holding back when it came to unleashing force attacks but doing his best to defend against (or kill) luke during their saber fight.

Because the effects sucked back then. End of story.

If only. Worst retcon case in the mythos.

Vader has had 20 extra years to hone his skills, so he's obviously more skilled and knowledgeable, and he's also shown to be smarter and more cautious than the rash Anakin. Vader also shows a greater command of the Force, and although Force attacks can't be made here I'll assume that the Force can still be used to enhance strength/speed/pre cog/etc. In addition, Vader's mechanical limbs give him increased strength, that combined with his enhanced Force ability would give him the edge in strength. Vader also wields an unfamiliar style to Anakin, but Anakin's style is obviously familiar to Vader. Vader's suit is also very durable.

ON THE OTHER HAND, Anakin is much more agile than that of Vader. Vader's missing limbs greatly decreased his mobility, which means that he is incapable of attacking, blocking or moving as fast as Anakin. Anakin being younger and more fit also probably has better stamina than Vader, although Vader's command of the Force might allow him to sustain himself to make up for this. And if Anakin can destroy Vader's life support system which appears to be on his face and chest, then Vader's screwed.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
this is really pathetic as already noted luke had like zero talent or technique here. i have very little experience with swords not as much as id like but i can see several ways for vader to ***** luke in this picture.

Originally posted by Incanus
He could have stabbed Luke multiple times, on the overhead chop, Luke was doing extremely wide swings, allowing for a harder hit, but leaving him open more.

I really don't think that we should take the fight scenes literally. I mean, that spin that Obi Wan did in ANH was really retarded, and Vader could've killed him. But the animation and technology wasn't good, so they couldn't make it in high quality.

Originally posted by Advent
Yes, which helped him exactly squat when a neophyte farmboy overpowered his guard. He may have brute force - but greatly lacks agility and finesse.

I'd take skill and speed over strength any day of the week.

Is that why he couldn't break old Ben Kenobi's defenses despite holding all the cards in his favor, such as: keeping up with his saber skills, whereas Ben didn't, knowing all of Ben's moves, but the same is not true for Kenobi since Vader changed his form, and having that "insane physical strength". Anakin was capable of downing Count Dooku in a few brief moments when they started fighting one-on-one. The idea that Vader was anywhere remotely near his former self is not supported by the highest form of canon nor anything else, Glentract.

Indeed, it's stated on the official site's Q&A under Ep. VI Lore (the section "How could Luke beat Vader?"😉 that "the injuries he sustained on Mustafar severely hampered his lightsaber prowess", noting that the "skill and power Anakin demonstrates as a young man is much greater".

Passive use of the Force is allowed. Even if it wasn't, I don't see how what you're saying makes any sense. Vader would be slower than a sloth on the ground. Anakin is much quicker, more talented with a blade, and physically, he isn't a pushover either.

🙄

Thank you Advent. I couldn't have stated it better myself.

Originally posted by Advent

I'd take skill and speed over strength any day of the week.

Is that why he couldn't break old Ben Kenobi's defenses despite holding all the cards in his favor, such as: keeping up with his saber skills, whereas Ben didn't, knowing all of Ben's moves, but the same is not true for Kenobi since Vader changed his form, and having that "insane physical strength". Anakin was capable of downing Count Dooku in a few brief moments when they started fighting one-on-one. The idea that Vader was anywhere remotely near his former self is not supported by the highest form of canon nor anything else, Glentract.

Indeed, it's stated on the official site's Q&A under Ep. VI Lore (the section "How could Luke beat Vader?"😉 that "the injuries he sustained on Mustafar severely hampered his lightsaber prowess", noting that the "skill and power Anakin demonstrates as a young man is much greater".

Passive use of the Force is allowed. Even if it wasn't, I don't see how what you're saying makes any sense. Vader would be slower than a sloth on the ground. Anakin is much quicker, more talented with a blade, and physically, he isn't a pushover either.

🙄

Just to point out, Vader having 20 more years of experience is probably more "skilled". Slower yes, but more skilled and more intelligent, unlike the rash and reckless Anakin.

Vader is stronger, more skilled, smarter and stronger in the Force.

Anakin is faster, more mobile and has more stamina.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Just to point out, Vader having 20 more years of experience is probably more "skilled". Slower yes, but more skilled and more intelligent, unlike the rash and reckless Anakin.

If he were more skilled or even close to as skilled, he wouldn't be stalemating an older Obi-Wan Kenobi who had been out of practice for two decades when he held all the cards in his favor.

If he were more skilled or even close to as skilled, he wouldn't be overwhelmed by a sloppy assault carried out by a neophyte farmboy like Luke Skywalker.

You mean to say that Vader has more experience and perhaps a broader technical knowledge of saber forms. Vader doesn't perform better with a blade than Anakin; the highest form of canon supports that. According to LFL, "the injuries [Vader] sustained on Mustafar severely hampered his lightsaber prowess", and the "skill and power Anakin demonstrates as a young man is much greater". In other words, Anakin is a better duelist than Vader could ever hope to be.

Dammit man u ppl i can't believe this. Vader suit wins obviously... cuz

1. He has armour (Although ppl from hk use the british spelling, i'm using it cuz it looks like amor which is love in spanish... And that looks really weird so yeah idk.)

2. More strength
3. Even if Anakin is faster, he can't keep up without drawing on the force heavily, which he can't do in this situation
4. Vader can be fast when he wants to. Check out the roan shryne fight or w/e his name was. (Rise of Darth Vader) The book after ROTS.
5. Vader now has knowledge of all lightsaber forms, and combined it into his "ultimate form"

Ok i'm not sure if all the info is accurate, but I can't check now so sry about that.

school starts 2mrw thats why.