Originally posted by Creshosk
That doesn't change that your argument is invalid due to it being circular reasoning.I noticed you didn't try to refute that.
Iceman freezing the Strange wasn't impressive because the Stranger was harmed by Juggernaut and unable to defeat the team.
There.
Now I believe there's a fanfic with Jubilee in it waiting for you, begone.
Originally posted by CreshoskUmm, no. It's PIS because..
Why would it be pis?And Space is not absolute Zero, its three degrees above absolute zero.
Oh, let me guess. its pis because bobby's a filthy mutie...
-Stranger has shrugged off attacks, and owned, the likes of Overmind, Silver Surfer, Super Skrull, Quasar, etc.
-He has created and destroyed worlds (one of which was Battleworld.)
-His power is > a Watcher.
-etc etc.
Originally posted by MerlynAnd the creation of a celestial isn't allowed to do such a thing?
Umm, no. It's PIS because..-Stranger has shrugged off attacks, and owned, the likes of Overmind, Silver Surfer, Super Skrull, Quasar, etc.
-He has created and destroyed worlds (one of which was Battleworld.)
-His power is > a Watcher.
-etc etc.
Originally posted by Kris BlazeOoh, touchy.. I take it you're afraid to debate with me?
Iceman freezing the Strange wasn't impressive because the Stranger was harmed by Juggernaut and unable to defeat the team.There.
Now I believe there's a fanfic with Jubilee in it waiting for you, begone.
You know, being hurt by the "herald" of Cytorak isn't anything to be ashamed of.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Partially.I can't imagine Wally's speedtrick working on anyone powered by the power cosmic. Especially not Stardust.
i asked because i said basically the same thing in a ss vs wally debate (though there are differences). it essentially comes down to a battle for control over the kinetic energy of the victim. if you think SD is capable of overriding bobby's control, then bobby really can't win at all. if not, bobby has a chance. i think it would work for a short time (ie--bobby could briefly freeze sd) but in SD's case his powers are continually replenished so bobby would have to continually drain them. i don't think he'd be able to do that and i think SD would be able to override bobby's control eventually.
as for killing bobby, again, that's a trickier issue. he'd need to trap bobby's consciousness somehow. just not exactly sure how . . .
Originally posted by CreshoskI've never seen a character wanked so much.
And the creation of a celestial isn't allowed to do such a thing?
Anywayz, considering Stranger has shrugged off attacks from those I listed... And then went on to effortlessly own them... Bobby being able to simply freeze his attacks ftw!!11@ doesn't strike me as something that should be taken (by the non-fanboy-type) as anything but PIS. Being "the creation of a Celestial" can only take you so far. 😂
Originally posted by leonidasHow long do you think the incapacitation would last? Long enough to count as a win or not? Because people argue that koing wolverine even for a little bit still counts as a win against wolverine even if wolverine was only down for a few panels, that count for less than 10 seconds.
i asked because i said basically the same thing in a ss vs wally debate (though there are differences). it essentially comes down to a battle for control over the kinetic energy of the victim. if you think SD is capable of overriding bobby's control, then bobby really can't win at all. if not, bobby has a chance. i think it would work for a short time (ie--bobby could briefly freeze sd) but in SD's case his powers are continually replenished so bobby would have to continually drain them. i don't think he'd be able to do that and i think SD would be able to override bobby's control eventually.as for killing bobby, again, that's a trickier issue. he'd need to trap bobby's consciousness somehow. just not exactly sure how . . .
Originally posted by MerlynWell I still ask, why do you think he should not be able to do such a thing? At what point is an omega level mutant allowed to start hanging with the higher level tiers?
I've never seen a character wanked so much.Anywayz, considering Stranger has shrugged off attacks from those I listed... And then went on to effortlessly own them... Bobby being able to simply freeze his attacks ftw!!11@ doesn't strike me as something that should be taken (by the non-fanboy-type) as anything but PIS. Being "the creation of a Celestial" can only take you so far. 😂
Originally posted by Creshosk
Because people argue that koing wolverine even for a little bit still counts as a win against wolverine even if wolverine was only down for a few panels, that count for less than 10 seconds.
ohhh no . . . don't drag me into that mess . . . 😄
and i'd think it probably wouldn't last very long. is there a specific time limit the forum uses to constitute a win?
Originally posted by leonidas
i asked because i said basically the same thing in a ss vs wally debate (though there are differences). it essentially comes down to a battle for control over the kinetic energy of the victim. if you think SD is capable of overriding bobby's control, then bobby really can't win at all. if not, bobby has a chance. i think it would work for a short time (ie--bobby could briefly freeze sd) but in SD's case his powers are continually replenished so bobby would have to continually drain them. i don't think he'd be able to do that and i think SD would be able to override bobby's control eventually.as for killing bobby, again, that's a trickier issue. he'd need to trap bobby's consciousness somehow. just not exactly sure how . . .
I don't usually assume that somebody's able to override someone else's control over a particular type of energy unless there's a difference in their power level. That's why I usually scoff at those who claim that a Green Lantern can control the Power Cosmic or wise versa. Even if this was the case, it would just be like a loop. On to the point. Stardust could trap Bobby's consciousness in his halberd probably. Kill it with telepathic attacks, telepathy's gotta be pretty basic for heralds, especially an ethereal like him.
So yeah, verdict is. Regardless of whether or not Bobby can freeze Stardust, he would eventually get taken apart and have nothing to reform from. If that's not a victory, there'd be something Stardust could do.
Originally posted by Kris BlazeHas Stardust used telepathic attacks? because if what you mentioned with the halberd is true SD could more than likely win the majority if not the totality.
I don't usually assume that somebody's able to override someone else's control over a particular type of energy unless there's a difference in their power level. That's why I usually scoff at those who claim that a Green Lantern can control the Power Cosmic or wise versa. Even if this was the case, it would just be like a loop. On to the point. Stardust could trap Bobby's consciousness in his halberd probably. Kill it with telepathic attacks, telepathy's gotta be pretty basic for heralds, especially an ethereal like him.So yeah, verdict is. Regardless of whether or not Bobby can freeze Stardust, he would eventually get taken apart and have nothing to reform from. If that's not a victory, there'd be something Stardust could do.
But if you're just speculating... then we're basically back to square one.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Nope. which is what causes the problems with Wolverine. And I was just using it as an example.
really? i thought someone once quoted me a time limit. hrm. then i don't know. my thought would be a few seconds, which likely wouldn't constitute a win--at least imo.
kris raises a good point, though i'm not sure of its validity because SD has never been seen using tp to my knowledge, but COULD a high level tp destroy bobby's consciousness? he must have showings vs psi's.
and kris--i assume you're thinking SD could pull a stunt with his halberd similar to what ss did to legacy? maybe. tought to say for sure. SD showed some great versatility with the PC, but that stunt ss pulled was pretty exotic . . . possible? sure. just not sure how likely . . .
Originally posted by CreshoskWhen their standard showings are indicative of such.
Well I still ask, why do you think he should not be able to do such a thing? At what point is an omega level mutant allowed to start hanging with the higher level tiers?
But when you consider Stranger's history of slapping away many of Marvel's elite, teh freeze maneveur is just plain ridiculous.
Is it also your opinion that Iceman beating Oblivion with similiar means, isn't PIS either? srsly
Originally posted by leonidas
and kris--i assume you're thinking SD could pull a stunt with his halberd similar to what ss did to legacy? maybe. tought to say for sure. SD showed some great versatility with the PC, but that stunt ss pulled was pretty exotic . . . possible? sure. just not sure how likely . . .
Stardust can just do what he did to the remains of his race. There's also no reason why telepathy would not finish off Iceman. It's not like being able to reform somehow makes him more resistant to telepathy. All heralds have cosmic awareness at least, so Stardust could at least resort to that.
Originally posted by leonidas
😕
Like a couple of seconds?
Originally posted by leonidasI wouldn't count what one herald does as evidence for another herald. Since not all the heralds are created equal. So I'd like to see if SD has any TP feats.
really? i thought someone once quoted me a time limit. hrm. then i don't know. my thought would be a few seconds, which likely wouldn't constitute a win--at least imo.kris raises a good point, though i'm not sure of its validity because SD has never been seen using tp to my knowledge, but COULD a high level tp destroy bobby's consciousness? he must have showings vs psi's.
and kris--i assume you're thinking SD could pull a stunt with his halberd similar to what ss did to legacy? maybe. tought to say for sure. SD showed some great versatility with the PC, but that stunt ss pulled was pretty exotic . . . possible? sure. just not sure how likely . . .
Originally posted by MerlynI'm not familiar with the incident.
When their standard showings are indicative of such.But when you consider Stranger's history of slapping away many of Marvel's elite, teh freeze maneveur is just plain ridiculous.
Is it also your opinion that Iceman beating Oblivion with similiar means, isn't PIS either? srsly
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Stardust can just do what he did to the remains of his race. There's also no reason why telepathy would not finish off Iceman. It's not like being able to reform somehow makes him more resistant to telepathy. All heralds have cosmic awareness at least, so Stardust could at least resort to that.
you're talking about he absorbed their essences into himself? could happen, but he'd then have to be able to contain bobby's consciousness. he MIGHT be able to, but i'd think that would be a tiresome tactic. he'd constantly have to be on guard and fighting bobby's consciousness which would always try and escape. tp is a solid option if available. otherwise, he still needs to trap bobby's consciousness somehow. the singularity could still do it.
Like a couple of seconds?
that's what i thought--so that's hardly 'bobby defeatzz stranger!!1!' stranger could easily have been caught by surprise by the extent of bobby's powers. doesn't need to be pis . . .
oh, and i agree cresh--hard to say something without at least SOME proof. and i don't know the oblivion feat either. 😕