*going off-topic*
Revan has to his name battles he won and general methods he used. But Thrawn has those plus detailed sources telling us about his personal mentality and small-scale, specific feats. Revan lacks all those little additions that make for a detailed analysis (lack of material on canon's part).
Originally posted by leonheartmm
id say he loses. he died killing a balrog.
Glorfindel was clearly killing him. Though, at the last second, the Balrog griped his tight and pulled him down from the mountain together.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
id say he loses. he died killing a balrog.
But there were also enough balrogs to have made
A.) A section of Morgoths armies, which were number i the billions at the least
B.) Enough to have them be the front line guys after some orcs die, so they just run around and kill stuff
C.)Feanor was surrounded by more than 8 alone, and then there were far more
D.)They numbered about a thousand
Originally posted by Incanus
But there were also enough balrogs to have made
A.) A section of Morgoths armies, which were number i the billions at the least
B.) Enough to have them be the front line guys after some orcs die, so they just run around and kill stuff
C.)Feanor was surrounded by more than 8 alone, and then there were far more
D.)They numbered about a thousand
Originally posted by Incanus
But there were also enough balrogs to have made
A.) A section of Morgoths armies, which were number i the billions at the least
B.) Enough to have them be the front line guys after some orcs die, so they just run around and kill stuff
C.)Feanor was surrounded by more than 8 alone, and then there were far more
D.)They numbered about a thousand
"The idea that Morgoth disposed of a 'host' of Balrogs endured long, but in a late note my father said that only very few ever existed - 'at most seven'."
BoLT2, The Fall of Gondolin
"There should not be supposed more than say 3 or at most 7 ever existed" HoME 10, Morgoth's Ring
Ok, no one is paying any attention, so I wil lrepeat myself:
1.)Morgoths HORDES numbered in the billions, growing so large so that Anfauglith couldnt contain them
2.)Christopher Tolkien is not J.R.R. Tolkien, is he? If the words "at most seven or eight" were in J.R.R. Tolkiens words, then I dont consider them to be right, as in Unfinished Tales the number was a thousand
3.)A thousand is a small number compared to the actual size of the forces of Morgoth
4.)What happened to all the other maiar that joined Morgoth? Did they NOT become balrogs? what did they become then? dragons? orcs? I dont think so.
5.)NOT being corrupt? WTF. They are ALREADY corrupt, hence why they are balrogs, not Maia. A maia is no longer a maia when they become a blarog, because they are then demons not angels. God, get some sense.
6.)One could kill Gandalf when: A.)Gandalf was SEVERLY limited in his powers, B.) Gandalf used a sword and no magic, that movie **** about lightning, no. C.)Gandalf is a maia as well. DEAL WITH IT.
7.)You have yet to prove that Elrond could not kill one, as some could be killed by common soldiers, as happened in numeros battles.
Originally posted by Incanus
Ok, no one is paying any attention, so I wil lrepeat myself:
1.)Morgoths HORDES numbered in the billions, growing so large so that Anfauglith couldnt contain them
2.)Christopher Tolkien is not J.R.R. Tolkien, is he? If the words "at most seven or eight" were in J.R.R. Tolkiens words, then I dont consider them to be right, as in Unfinished Tales the number was a thousand
3.)A thousand is a small number compared to the actual size of the forces of Morgoth
4.)What happened to all the other maiar that joined Morgoth? Did they NOT become balrogs? what did they become then? dragons? orcs? I dont think so.
6.)One could kill Gandalf when: A.)Gandalf was SEVERLY limited in his powers
B.) Gandalf used a sword and no magic, that movie **** about lightning, no.
7.)You have yet to prove that Elrond could not kill one, as some could be killed by common soldiers, as happened in numeros battles.
Originally posted by ares834
RetconedJRR Tolkien said it. And once again retcon.
Prove
Your point...
Werewolves, vampires, perhaps dragons, perhaps orc kings like Boldog, and all other types of monsters.
No, they were created by Morgoth, the balrogs, were not, and there is no friggin way a maiar is an orc, since they are all elves.
He was not severly limited from his powers he was simply banned from using his full might [B]against Sauron
he may have used it all to take down the Balrog.No, in taking on the flesh of Arda, they would not be able to bring thewir full strength to bear, as well as Aman only being a vision.
He usedd magic... He placed a spell on the door to stop the Balrog advancing and the Balrog counter spelled it. He later on brok the bridge. After that we can't say for certain whether he used magic or not.
Ok, yes, he did use magic to keep the door shut for a few moments, forgot that, But no, he didnt break the bridge, the balrog stepped on it. Im pretty sure something that BIG, must be heavy enough to break the bridge.
Prove that Elrond could kill one.
God, you idiot, I JUST SAID THAT TO YOU. You are proving you are losing and yet you refuse to admit it to yourself. [/B]
Originally posted by Incanus No, they were created by Morgoth, the balrogs, were not, and there is no friggin way a maiar is an orc, since they are all elves."Boldog is a name that occurs many times in the tales of the War. But it is possible that Boldog was not a personal name, and either a title, or else the name of a kind of creature: the Orc-formed Maiar, only less formidable than the Balrogs" "Melkor had corrupted many spirits — some great as Sauron, or less as Balrogs. The least could have been primitive Orcs."
No, in taking on the flesh of Arda, they would not be able to bring thewir full strength to bear, as well as Aman only being a vision
Ok, yes, he did use magic to keep the door shut for a few moments, forgot that, But no, he didnt break the bridge, the balrog stepped on it. Im pretty sure something that BIG, must be heavy enough to break the bridge.
God, you idiot, I JUST SAID THAT TO YOU. You are proving you are losing and yet you refuse to admit it to yourself.Elrond has no feats as a warrior, there is no way he could kill a Balrog.
Ah, but who knows the exact circumstances of Glorfindels fight? He also
A.)When confronting the Nine, he was on elvish land, and they were crossing an elvish river.
B.)Spirits is the keyword. I have no doubt that the less corrupted ones were orcs king, but there were never billions of maiar to begin with. There was 1 maiar/orc, and you named him. Dragons and their fell spirit, only Glaurung or Ancalagont the Black would have been powerful enough to be Maiar, and they wernt, they carried the essence of Morgoth.
C.)Dude, you just contradicted yourself,"Right AT THE BALROGS FEET" Meaning the balrog was on it. Sure, there is a little to suggest Gandalf helped it, but no, he didnt break it, the balrog did.
D.)Glorfindel has no feats either, he is like Revan. We know he did something, but we dont know the circumstances. He could have thrown the spear and weapons. Prove he didnt.
E.)No the balrog didnt counter spell it, it had a will greater than Gandalfs and stopped him from keeping the door shut on top of breaking it down.