Luke, Yoda and Mace Windu vs General Grevious, Ventress and Jango Fett with twist

Started by Dr McBeefington4 pages

Originally posted by Gideon
Advent and a certain sock both made eloquent and considerable arguments for Odan Urr; it's practically impossible to contradict the case they made. The Dark Nest Crisis and much of both subsequent series illustrate that while Skywalker's powers remain more formidable than Jacen's, he did not have his nephew's scope of Force knowledge, which is why (I reiterate) Skywalker is travelling to these various cults that Jacen made on his sojourn: to learn what his nephew knew that he himself did not.

I never argued Jacen's superiority in esoteric force techniques. But there's nothing to suggest Jacen possesses the number of light side/dark side techniques that Luke does. And I believe I addressed Advent's argument.

Traditionally, if a Force user is a master of more arcane, complex techniques, he or she has a knowledge that surpasses someone with a more basic perspective.

So you're saying Jacen's knowledge surpasses that of Palpatine?

Power and knowledge are not the same concepts; the fact that Skywalker was powerful does not mean that his knowledge of the Force is greater than those who are weaker than he is.

I never said it did.

Your desperation is tangible; this is the price one pays for losing on multiple fronts. You're the one back peddling and we've all noticed that you failed to address or concede the bulk of my argument.

Who is "we"? What "we" have noticed is you pushing the same agenda for the past month. What "we" have noticed is you stating something that's already a given on this forum, and continuing to state it.

You need to do one or the other, and you need to do it soon. It would be a shame for you to be otherwise relegated to the status of a certain sock and ignored.

Disagree all you like. Argue all you like. But you will either address your opponent's argument or, failing that, concede.


I addressed a particular part of your argument where you claimed Jacen had deeper command of force techniques. In the future, I suggest you be more specific, rather than making general statements.

DS
I never argued Jacen's superiority in esoteric force techniques.

Sweet. And since that is an area in which Jacen enjoys superiority, you reaffirm the original claim:

Gideon
The logical conclusion is that Luke Skywalker is a supremely proficient duelist in the mythos and an extremely powerful Force user, but there are those individuals who rival and surpass him in certain respects and are capable of killing him.

👆

DS
But there's nothing to suggest Jacen possesses the number of light side/dark side techniques that Luke does.

Is there something that suggests otherwise, given that Jacen was a scholarly Jedi and one of Luke's proteges? This isn't the Sith we're talking about; it stands to reason that, especially in Luke's dire circumstances regarding the fragility of his order, he would want his apprentices to know all that they can.

DS
And I believe I addressed Advent's argument.

You did, if by address you mean responded. The quality of your argument? That's open to interpretation.

DS
So you're saying Jacen's knowledge surpasses that of Palpatine?

This is the second time you've said that, and I urge you to elaborate. Prove that Jacen has mastered more arcane, complex techniques.

DS
I never said it did.

...

DS
You say he learned little or had limited knowledge? He seemed quite powerful up until DE. He then got even more powerful under the tutelage of Palpatine, as well as the library on Ossus.

^ This whole excerpt is an attempt to confirm his uber knowledge because he demonstrates uber power. So, yes, you very well said that they were the same.

DS
Who is "we"? What "we" have noticed is you pushing the same agenda for the past month. What "we" have noticed is you stating something that's already a given on this forum, and continuing to state it.

Ironic, because "we" have noticed that "you" seem to be arguing things
"you" claim is common knowledge.

That makes you sound rather inept.

DS
I addressed a particular part of your argument where you claimed Jacen had deeper command of force techniques. In the future, I suggest you be more specific, rather than making general statements.

Address the rest of it, now. Because it looks like you're banking on me forgetting that you called me out on the whole thing.

Originally posted by Gideon
Sweet. And since that is an area in which Jacen enjoys superiority, you reaffirm the original claim:

👆


And we are back to square one where you're preaching something that's a given on this ofrum.

Is there something that suggests otherwise, given that Jacen was a scholarly Jedi and one of Luke's proteges? This isn't the Sith we're talking about; it stands to reason that, especially in Luke's dire circumstances regarding the fragility of his order, he would want his apprentices to know all that they can.

Considering again, Luke having at least 20 years on Jacen in experience and knowledge under Palpatine and the library of Ossus, and that after Jacen got back from the Vong War Luke didn't trust him, it would be foolish to assume that Jacen is in the same league with light side/dark side techniques. And I don't know where you are getting this idea that Luke wants his apprentices to know all they can. If that was the case, Jaina wouldn't have been surprised that Luke knew the shatterpoint charism.

This is the second time you've said that, and I urge you to elaborate. Prove that Jacen has mastered more arcane, complex techniques.

Wonderful.. While Luke studied under Palpatine, mastered things such as the Fallanassi technique, managed to be in two places at once(or so Jacen thought), managed to force push Jacen's stealthX, and managed to create his own lightning technique.

Ironic, because "we" have noticed that "you" seem to be arguing things
"you" claim is common knowledge.

That makes you sound rather inept.


Really? I see you and me arguing about Luke's power. I see you and me arguing about Jacen's power. Who is this "we", once again?

Address the rest of it, now. Because it looks like you're banking on me forgetting that you called me out on the whole thing. [/B]

I originally called you out on peddling your "stating the obvious" agenda. I'll go back and see what I posted after that.

DS
Wonderful.. While Luke studied under Palpatine, mastered things such as the Fallanassi technique, managed to be in two places at once(or so Jacen thought), managed to force push Jacen's stealthX, and managed to create his own lightning technique.

No, DS. You asked me if Jacen's knowledge surpassed Palpatine's. I was asking you to prove that Jacen knew more complex, arcane techniques than the Emperor.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, DS. You asked me if Jacen's knowledge surpassed Palpatine's. I was asking you to prove that Jacen knew more complex, arcane techniques than the Emperor.

I wasn't aware that the Emperor was familiar with esoteric techniques. I wasn't aware the Emperor knew the Flow Walk or the Kel Dor technique.

Dr McBeefington
I wasn't aware that the Emperor was familiar with esoteric techniques. I wasn't aware the Emperor knew the Flow Walk or the Kel Dor technique.

😐

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=508764&pagenumber=1

Oh jesus can you quote it please? And I really hope you didn't rest your argument on "Palpatine knew every technique and created more."

Dr McBeefington
Oh jesus can you quote it please? And I really hope you didn't rest your argument on "Palpatine knew every technique and created more."

I have to force people to read the damn thing somehow.

131

There is a section called "Knowledge of the Force"

Originally posted by Gideon
I have to force people to read the damn thing somehow.

131

There is a section called "Knowledge of the Force"

What the hell do you mean you have to "force" people to read it? I've read it many times. You're implying that there's one quote or two in there that supports your argument. If that is the case, why would you want me going over the entire document. YOU are the one that wrote it so I would expect you to know the location AND the quote. I'll see if I can find it.

Oh wow. The thread is basically can the 3 most powerful jedi ever beat the enemy in a short time. 2 pages later it's "so and so is better than Luke at X!"

BTW, it's true that Jacen is better in some aspects than Luke. This is obvious. EVERYONE is better than EVERYONE at something.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Oh wow. The thread is basically can the 3 most powerful jedi ever beat the enemy in a short time. 2 pages later it's "so and so is better than Luke at X!"

BTW, it's true that Jacen is better in some aspects than Luke. This is obvious. EVERYONE is better than EVERYONE at something.

I'm not i'm worse at everything than everyone.

BTW, it's true that Jacen is better in some aspects than Luke. This is obvious. EVERYONE is better than EVERYONE at something.

This is without a doubt the most (least) effective pairing of inane drivel that I've ever had the (mis)fortune to run across.

STOP QUOTING HIM

You guys are waaay too harsh with him. Cerially.

Gideon
You're the one back peddling [...]
It has spread. 😐

Originally posted by Eminence
It has spread. 😐

No one recognizes my jokez anymore. I know the correct spelling is "backpedaling."

Teach DS, please?

Eminence
Teach DS, please?

If you haven't noticed, my current KMC priority is to save His Imperial Majesty's ass from some Asian saboteur and Exar Kun.

Exar Kun died though. A long, long time ago...

Eminence
Exar Kun died though. A long, long time ago...

And he's still a pain in the Emperor's ass. Of course, if I, Jedi is any indication, Sidious would have lol'd at Kun.

Who the hell is this Exar Kun?