Originally posted by Philosophíayes.
Are you talking to me ?
just saying that a statement like that should be accompanied by a brief explanation of what surrounded that feat, since it's not an every fight occurrence.
and it could be a feat exclusive to a green lantern, and further exclusive to only kyle.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
yes.just saying that a statement like that should be accompanied by a brief explanation of what surrounded that feat, since it's not an every fight occurrence.
and it could be a feat exclusive to a green lantern, and further exclusive to only kyle.
A mind-controlled Kyle attacked Wonder Woman who was about 50 feet away. Wally said that he only has a picosecond before the blast reaches her and eventually got the ones responsible for the mind-control in front of the blast. It takes light 3.3 picosecond to travel 1 millimeter.
And the last part is too strawman-type-of-counter to actually bother adressing.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You're a fu(king joke boy.Why should I bother trying to counter stupid claims? You don't seem to really know anything about what a lantern ring can do.
I posted a very simple argument. Using his near-full charge, a fairly inexperienced green lantern can stop someone far more powerful than any opponent Norrin has ever thought about fighting. The man formerly known as the greatest lantern ever, would naturally do even better. Now your response to this, seemed to be that the Surfer would survive this and/or dodge it.
- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious
- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious
- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconsciousHere's the gaping hole of ignorance pertaining the ring. They are already fast enough to hit the Flash and Zoom. Is Norrin faster than these? Of course not, of course not. Everybody who's ever touched a Flash and Surfer comic, knows this. This is granted, this is something everybody knows. Lantern rings can hit fast people. Hal was able to tag Zoom without much trouble. Does Hal have some kind of superhuman perception Sinestro does not? OF COURSE not.
So what have we learned? You've learned nothing, but the rest of us have managed to derive from these incidents a simple fact:
- Rings can hit fast people.
- Rings can hit fast people.
- Rings can hit fast people.
- Rings can hit fast people.Naturally, Sinestro pouring lots of energy into an attack is a viable tactic. It would hit and it would knock him out. This myth about phasing? Well fortunately a lot of things strike people who are phasing. Mjolnir, energy, electricity, Wolverine Death's sword, adamantium to some degree, telepathic attacks and all sorts of different metals. And most importantly, in some incidents Martian Manhunter has been shut out by a green lantern's shield. Is Norrin a better phaser than J'onn? Of course not, of course not.
At least uve decided to attempt to counter the argument regardless of how ridiculous ur counter is.
Now to get to this "argument of yours"
This argument was sufficiently countered earlier on in the thred. "Stopping" the antimonitor in the way u described it tells us absolutely nothing about the power of this full charge so regardless of how many times u mention it its still irreelvant. Further, my response was to point out the foolishness of such an attack because it has a high possibility of missing and that surfer has other ways of avoiding the attack
Here u resort to nonsensical redudancy as if that somehow strengthen s ur case. And then ignore part of the argument that was made clear earlier I didnt dispute that surfer could be koed if 90percent of the rings energy hits him at once. What i did was refer to ways in which surfer could stop this ffrom happening such as phasing forcefields,dodging etc.
lol, what idiocy. Being able to tag a superfast opponent on some particular occasions suddenly means u can continuously hit that opponent(or someone moving at high speeds) in a prolonged battle while they are moving at that speed? Thats inane. ITs equivalent to claiming that becuse Hulk tagged quicksilver on a particular occasion, quicksilver cant dodge hulks blows in a fight.. Or because Deathstroke
has tagged flash before, we conclude that flash isnt fast enough to dodge any of his blows. Ur just ridiculous
All that we learned is that u subscribe to false and nonsensical beliefs. And then u have the audacity to redundantly post such nonsense numerous times. lmao
While a viable tactic it likely wouldnt be effective because it could miss considering surfers speed,or could be avoided other ways. ITs not like his blasts havent been dodged before and the likelyhood of that is even moreso here where surfer will be operating at great speeds. Further mentioning the things which have negated phasing in the past is hardly proof of anything if u have no incident in which sinestros shields hve defended against such. Post the martain manhunter incident as that would stand as proof of such.
Further while ur all engrossed in ur nonsensical tactic u forget that surfer will be attacking sinestro as well and with his greater speed will be getting more attacks in. Sinestro will therefore have to be on the defensive as well.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You're a fu(king joke.Why should I bother trying to counter stupid claims? You don't seem to really know anything about what a lantern ring can do.
I posted a very simple argument. Using his near-full charge, a fairly inexperienced green lantern can stop someone far more powerful than any opponent Norrin has ever thought about fighting. The man formerly known as the greatest lantern ever, would naturally do even better. Now your response to this, seemed to be that the Surfer would survive this and/or dodge it.
What did we learn from this incident? You probably learned nothing, the rest of us gathered this:
- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious
let's stop right there. Exactly how much power is in "90% of the ring?"
we see someone hitting antimonitor with a lot of energy, but don't really have a good idea of scale here.
We DO have a good idea of how much power surfer can tank though:
That's quasar hitting surfer with the energy equivalent of "a small star." Not only does this not KO surfer, he's not even scratched. (note also that quasar was trying to powerdrain him here. Didn't work. SS's energy reserves are simply too huge.) In the same scan we see surfer claiming that he's flown through supernovas with no problem.
Is sinestro emptying "99% of the ring" going to exceed the output of entire stars and supernovas? I'd say probably not, and even if it's on par, we know that surfer can tank those. Keep in mind this version of surfer is pretty old, and has since been upgraded (see: annihilation.)
Naturally, Sinestro pouring lots of energy into an attack is a viable tactic. It would hit and it would knock him out. This myth about phasing? Well fortunately a lot of things strike people who are phasing. Mjolnir, energy, electricity, Wolverine Death's sword, adamantium to some degree, telepathic attacks and all sorts of different metals. And most importantly, in some incidents Martian Manhunter has been shut out by a green lantern's shield. Is Norrin a better phaser than J'onn? Of course not, of course not. [/B]
Your error here is assuming there's only one way to phase. In fact, there's several. We see flash doing it by vibrating his molecules. J'onn and the Vision accomplish it via density manipulation. (spreading molecules out, to avoid attacks). Kitty pryde accomplishes this by actually shifting her mass partway into another dimension. Tactic #3 most definitely avoids energy attacks, and shadowcat has done it more than once. Tactics 1 and 2 are debatable. Which can surfer accomplish? All Three. Surfer's powerset grants him superspeed (tactic 1), density and matter manipulation (tactic 2), and he can cross dimensions as well, giving pretty good weight to the theory that he can accomplish tactic 3 as well.
Since the writers never bothered to establish HOW surfer does it, any one of these could be valid. Saying that a lantern ring stopped the martian manhunter doesn't mean much, since we KNOW MM is restricted to phasing via density manipulation. This isn't the case with surfer.
Hell, since surfer can time travel under his own power, one could even argue he could be time shifting his body to avoid attacks, or possibly another method entirely that we haven't thought about. Point being, since you DON'T know and SS's powerset is EXTREMELY broad, you can't say conclusively that an energy assault here would hit a phased object.
simply put because its a long post:
1.) There's evidence that surfer can tank someone throwing the equivalent of entire stars and supernovas at him- good argument that dumping "99%" of the ring isn't going to KO him
2.) Phasing as a tactic can be accomplished in a variety of ways, some of which can completely avoid energy attacks, and all of which fall under surfer's powerset. If necessary, phasing would avoid an all out attack.
I'm not saying who wins, but this argument isn't valid.
Originally posted by Philosophía
A mind-controlled Kyle attacked Wonder Woman who was about 50 feet away. Wally said that he only has a picosecond before the blast reaches her and eventually got the ones responsible for the mind-control in front of the blast. It takes light 3.3 picosecond to travel 1 millimeter.And the last part is too strawman-type-of-counter to actually bother adressing.
Lord. facepalm
You really think Waid put that much thought into it when he wrote that?
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Of course not, of course not.
as an aside to my earlier post: it occurs to me there's a couple of incidents that point to the total energy output of a lantern ring being at or significantly less than the output of a star/supernova.
In Final Night, the Hal Jordan variant of parallax absorbed the blast/radiation of our sun going nova, and used it and his own energies to restart/reform the sun. The effort killed him, and I'm pretty sure that version of hal is substantially stronger than current sinestro.
In DC 1 million, Kyle Rayner nearly gave himself an aneurysm- he was bleeding from the nose and could barely speak- attempting to contain a weakened solaris. Solaris is a stellar supercomputer and artificial sun but is VERY small in comparison to our own sun, or even earth. It was maybe the size of a tall building. Had it been the size of an ACTUAL star, Kyle would have been easily overwhelmed, if not killed in the attempt.
So, given those two examples that directly compare the output of a lantern ring to the output of a sun/supernova, I'm going to say surfer can handle 100% of a ring's output without too much difficulty.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
as an aside to my earlier post: it occurs to me there's a couple of incidents that point to the total energy output of a lantern ring being at or significantly less than the output of a star/supernova.In Final Night, the Hal Jordan variant of parallax absorbed the blast/radiation of our sun going nova, and used it and his own energies to restart/reform the sun. The effort killed him, and I'm pretty sure that version of hal is substantially stronger than current sinestro.
In DC 1 million, Kyle Rayner nearly gave himself an aneurysm- he was bleeding from the nose and could barely speak- attempting to contain a [b]weakened
solaris. Solaris is a stellar supercomputer and artificial sun but is VERY small in comparison to our own sun, or even earth. It was maybe the size of a tall building. Had it been the size of an ACTUAL star, Kyle would have been easily overwhelmed, if not killed in the attempt.So, given those two examples that directly compare the output of a lantern ring to the output of a sun/supernova, I'm going to say surfer can handle 100% of a ring's output without too much difficulty. [/B]
Originally posted by psycho gundam
yes.just saying that a statement like that should be accompanied by a brief explanation of what surrounded that feat, since it's not an every fight occurrence.
and it could be a feat exclusive to a green lantern, and further exclusive to only kyle.
Could be, Kyle can make Kryptonite, have any other lanterns shown that power?
As Red Lanterns only Hal and Bleez can make constructs
Also in Rebirth Hal shows how different Lanterns use their rings differently according to their personality.
Originally posted by Space M ummyThat's a pretty big oversimplification of what Hal did. Did you ever read that story by chance?
as an aside to my earlier post: it occurs to me there's a couple of incidents that point to the total energy output of a lantern ring being at or significantly less than the output of a star/supernova.In Final Night, the Hal Jordan variant of parallax absorbed the blast/radiation of our sun going nova, and used it and his own energies to restart/reform the sun. The effort killed him, and I'm pretty sure that version of hal is substantially stronger than current sinestro.
In DC 1 million, Kyle Rayner nearly gave himself an aneurysm- he was bleeding from the nose and could barely speak- attempting to contain a [b]weakened
solaris. Solaris is a stellar supercomputer and artificial sun but is VERY small in comparison to our own sun, or even earth. It was maybe the size of a tall building. Had it been the size of an ACTUAL star, Kyle would have been easily overwhelmed, if not killed in the attempt.So, given those two examples that directly compare the output of a lantern ring to the output of a sun/supernova, I'm going to say surfer can handle 100% of a ring's output without too much difficulty. [/B]
In Final Night, Hal could have reignited the sun easily. But that wasn't merely all he did. He got rid of the sun eater, which was extra-special in this case, as it existed in multiple dimensions at once. He also set into motion the events for Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan where Kyle figured out that the Ring and Marty were manifestations Hal left behind- enough energy to rebuild OA in all it's glory at the center of the universe. Another part of the energy allowed Kyle to become ION 1.
Even Kyle in Last Will and Testament said "The green is infinite, dude. [referencing of course the power Hal was wielding as Parallax] How much of it do you think Hal needed to ignite a sun?!" suggesting the absurdity of Hal using all his power to fix Final Night.
In fact, most of your post was garbage.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
facepalm
The fact that you think Solaris is weak makes your argument weak.
reading comprehension problems?
I said solaris was weakened. not weak. After every hero in the known universe attacked solaris, a supernova was triggered at his core and SEVERELY damaged him.
Kyle was attempting to contain solaris' energies/explosion after this, and it was pretty conclusive that this was pretty much kyle's limit.
NO WAY could kyle have tanked or contained a full power solaris by himself. If he could have, he would have, instead of seeing hundreds of heroes get burned to death.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
reading comprehension problems?I said solaris was [b]weakened
. not weak. After every hero in the known universe attacked solaris, a supernova was triggered at his core and SEVERELY damaged him.Kyle was attempting to contain solaris' energies/explosion after this, and it was pretty conclusive that this was pretty much kyle's limit.
NO WAY could kyle have tanked or contained a full power solaris by himself. If he could have, he would have, instead of seeing hundreds of heroes get burned to death. [/B]
Originally posted by Juntai
That's a pretty big oversimplification of what Hal did. Did you ever read that story by chance?In Final Night, Hal could have reignited the sun easily. But that wasn't merely all he did. He got rid of the sun eater, which was extra-special in this case, as it existed in multiple dimensions at once. He also set into motion the events for Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan where Kyle figured out that the Ring and Marty were manifestations Hal left behind- enough energy to rebuild OA in all it's glory at the center of the universe. Another part of the energy allowed Kyle to become ION 1.
Even Kyle in Last Will and Testament said "The green is infinite, dude. [referencing of course the power Hal was wielding as Parallax] How much of it do you think Hal needed to ignite a sun?!" suggesting the absurdity of Hal using all his power to fix Final Night.
In fact, most of your post was garbage.
I have read the story, but no longer have it. If someone has scans so we can see exactly what part of reigniting Sol killed Hal (since it's not really debatable that the feat killed him) that might settle it, since we disagree.
My interpretation is that the energy itself might be infinite, but Hal's ability to manipulate it at that level was not and the strain killed him. And again, we're talking current Sinestro, who doesn't have anywhere near that level of power.
You mean the same Kyle to temporary stop the energies of Imperiex?
not sure what imperiex has to do with anything, but yes, the same kyle was shown to be less powerful than solaris, who in turn had an output less than the sun.
If kyle's ring, or his control over it, was superior or equal- absorbing or containing an exploding sun would have been no problem. as it was, it was tearing him apart.
