ROTS Obi Wan vs AOTC Obi Wan and Anakin

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Right, because Anakin would react the same way to OB1 as he did to a former Jedi turned Sith who just killed a bunch of Jedi... yea, that makes sense.

No. Just because they had a stalemate with ONE move doesn't mean they're equals. Per Lucas, at the time of ROTS, Anakin is the most powerful. Yes he lacks mastery and control at times, but he is still superior to OB1. Now, is ROTS OB1's mastery of the force greater than AOTC Anakin's? Sure. But that's also from a "Jedi" point of view. If Anakin were to give into his emotions like he did with the tuskens and later, Dooku, then I'm sure he could find some ways to launch some offensive force attacks.

I just think that together, they would overwhelm OB1. It won't be fast, but they will get him. Look how Anakin affected Dooku after their duel via his labored breathing. ROTS OB1 couldn't even do that. People tend to underestimate Anakin around here becase of Hayden's acting and Lucas' writing.

First, there was a 10 year gap for Dooku to improve, and Dooku, by nature, is quite a bit higher than OB1. There was only 3 years between AOTC and ROTS and we've seen nothing from Kenobi to suggest he's a beast with the force. Just some low grade telekinesis. Yes his saber skill enhanced, but to what extent? Couldn't be that much in three years compared to the first 10 that he started studying it after realizing that QGJ's form was lacking.

And yes, fighting for that long would make you better, but you can only go as far as your natural potential can take you. He didn't become THE master of Soresu during ROTS, which means he obtained that goal during the Clone Wars, which for us, could be a few weeks after AOTC for all we know. Even still, the power gap for OB1 wouldn't be that great or anywhere near the level of that of Anakin.

On a side note, Dooku had just quit the Order around the time of TPM and was said to have become a more powerful Sith once giving into the Darkside, which would attribute to his exponential power gain over that 10 year span. Well that and training under the most powerful Sith Lord ever...

Originally posted by mattatom
Thats all very well and good but I wasn't aware Dooku trained under Bandon 😕

You mean Revan right?

Fun note: Bandon is actually indirectly trained by the most powerful Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt

No. Just because they had a stalemate with ONE move doesn't mean they're equals. Per Lucas, at the time of ROTS, Anakin is the most powerful. Yes he lacks mastery and control at times, but he is still superior to OB1. Now, is ROTS OB1's mastery of the force greater than AOTC Anakin's? Sure. But that's also from a "Jedi" point of view. If Anakin were to give into his emotions like he did with the tuskens and later, Dooku, then I'm sure he could find some ways to launch some offensive force attacks.

I just think that together, they would overwhelm OB1. It won't be fast, but they will get him. Look how Anakin affected Dooku after their duel via his labored breathing. ROTS OB1 couldn't even do that. People tend to underestimate Anakin around here becase of Hayden's acting and Lucas' writing.

First, there was a 10 year gap for Dooku to improve, and Dooku, by nature, is quite a bit higher than OB1. There was only 3 years between AOTC and ROTS and we've seen nothing from Kenobi to suggest he's a beast with the force. Just some low grade telekinesis. Yes his saber skill enhanced, but to what extent? Couldn't be that much in three years compared to the first 10 that he started studying it after realizing that QGJ's form was lacking.

And yes, fighting for that long would make you better, but you can only go as far as your natural potential can take you. He didn't become THE master of Soresu during ROTS, which means he obtained that goal during the Clone Wars, which for us, could be a few weeks after AOTC for all we know. Even still, the power gap for OB1 wouldn't be that great or anywhere near the level of that of Anakin.

On a side note, Dooku had just quit the Order around the time of TPM and was said to have become a more powerful Sith once giving into the Darkside, which would attribute to his exponential power gain over that 10 year span. Well that and training under the most powerful Sith Lord ever...

I never said, they were equals, of course Anakin has more raw power, reserve..., (more than anyone) but they have ABOUT equal mastery of their powers, probably Obis is even higher. But what good is this raw power to him(Anakin) , if he cant summon it at will, that he cant control it all the time(i am talking about Force powers, not ligtsaber prowess).
And ROTS Anakin has nothing to do with this fight.
But what offensive Force powers does AOTC Anakin have? If ROTS ROTS Anakin, who very much, gave to his emotions, couldn't defeat ROTS Kenobi, what will AOTC Anakin do, who has even less mastery of the Force and has no reason yet to give in to his emotions, against Kenobi.

Tell me, how do you imagine the fight, described it to me, how will the duo get him.
Sure Anakin affected Dooku a little, but lets be fair here, by this point, he was no match for him and Dooku was practically toying with the duo in the movie.
Dooku only took Kenobi out so quickly in ROTS, because of the Force, with sabers he would, have to work for it very hard.
I actually had no problem with his acting and off all actors(except Ray Parks-Dart Maul) he was the most proficient in the training process,
allegedly, almost defeated a Kendo master.

Yeah there was a 10 year gap and of course Dooku is higher then Obi-Wan, but he was decades older then Kenobi and still advanced by a lot, are we to believe that Kenobi who was in his 30s, by AOTC was actually close to his full potential. And you have to remember , it was 3 years of constant fighting.
I never said he is a best with the Force, but i wouldn't call him weak, sure Dooku pwned him, but he is one of the best ever. Very few people, in history of SW, could do something like that.
I think his saber skill was enhanced, by a huge margin. He went from, being a joke against Dooku, to pwning Grievous with ease. I don't see, AOTC Kenobi, doing that.
Why couldn't he learned more in 3 years of constant war, then 10 years of peace. Look how much Dooku learned in 10 years, compare to previous 70, how much Mace advanced in 10, compared to before...
Both were older then Kenobi and Kenobi saw much more action then Dooku and Mace.

I agree that, fighting long would make you better and you can only go as far as your natural potential can take you, but how do you know, where Kenobis potential ends. Do you have a chart of every SW character and when they hit their potential. Is it logical to assume, that Kenobi stop growing, somewhere between Clone wars in his 30s, when people older then him, were still advancing, becoming more powerful.
Your absolutely right about the fact, that the power gap for OB1 wouldn't be that great or anywhere near the level of that of Anakin, but in this fight its AOTC Anakin, who has still to experience the 3 year war and huge growth in power.
And not to mention the fact, that he still learned new techniques that made him a overall better combatant.

Dooku advanced lot, by joining the Dark side and studying under Sidious, but he was already in his 70s, why couldn't Obi-Wan in his 30s, whit constant fighting advance as well.

And like i said in my earlier post, Kenobi knows the duo and their weaknesses, the same doesn't apply in return.
And, do we agree, that no team here, can with this battle with Force powers?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I never said, they were equals, of course Anakin has more raw power, reserve..., (more than anyone) but they have ABOUT equal mastery of their powers, probably Obis is even higher. But what good is this raw power to him(Anakin) , if he cant summon it at will, that he cant control it all the time(i am talking about Force powers, not ligtsaber prowess).

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And ROTS Anakin has nothing to do with this fight.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
But what offensive Force powers does AOTC Anakin have?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
If ROTS ROTS Anakin, who very much, gave to his emotions, couldn't defeat ROTS Kenobi,

Originally posted by Count Makashi
what will AOTC Anakin do, who has even less mastery of the Force and has no reason yet to give in to his emotions, against Kenobi.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Tell me, how do you imagine the fight, described it to me, how will the duo get him.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Sure Anakin affected Dooku a little, but lets be fair here, by this point, he was no match for him and Dooku was practically toying with the duo in the movie.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dooku only took Kenobi out so quickly in ROTS, because of the Force, with sabers he would, have to work for it very hard.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I actually had no problem with his acting and off all actors(except Ray Parks-Dart Maul) he was the most proficient in the training process,
allegedly, almost defeated a Kendo master.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yeah there was a 10 year gap and of course Dooku is higher then Obi-Wan, but he was decades older then Kenobi and still advanced by a lot, are we to believe that Kenobi who was in his 30s, by AOTC was actually close to his full potential. And you have to remember , it was 3 years of constant fighting.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I never said he is a best with the Force, but i wouldn't call him weak, sure Dooku pwned him, but he is one of the best ever. Very few people, in history of SW, could do something like that.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I think his saber skill was enhanced, by a huge margin. He went from, being a joke against Dooku, to pwning Grievous with ease. I don't see, AOTC Kenobi, doing that.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Why couldn't he learned more in 3 years of constant war, then 10 years of peace.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Look how much Dooku learned in 10 years, compare to previous 70, how much Mace advanced in 10, compared to before...
Both were older then Kenobi and Kenobi saw much more action then Dooku and Mace.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I agree that, fighting long would make you better and you can only go as far as your natural potential can take you, but how do you know, where Kenobis potential ends. Do you have a chart of every SW character and when they hit their potential.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Is it logical to assume, that Kenobi stop growing,

Originally posted by Count Makashi
somewhere between Clone wars in his 30s, when people older then him, were still advancing, becoming more powerful.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Your absolutely right about the fact, that the power gap for OB1 wouldn't be that great or anywhere near the level of that of Anakin, but in this fight its AOTC Anakin, who has still to experience the 3 year war and huge growth in power.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And not to mention the fact, that he still learned new techniques that made him a overall better combatant.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dooku advanced lot, by joining the Dark side and studying under Sidious, but he was already in his 70s, why couldn't Obi-Wan in his 30s, whit constant fighting advance as well.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And like i said in my earlier post, Kenobi knows the duo and their weaknesses, the same doesn't apply in return.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And, do we agree, that no team here, can with this battle with Force powers?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
The reserves is what keeps him going at such a frantic pace that people can't keep up with. Ergo, OB1 would tire long before Anakin would and his defenses would be breached..

Yea, but the question is, could he tire him before, ROTS Obi-Wan defeats him, or is he actually good enough yet, to defeat him. Remember this is AOTC Anakin, who is way below of his ROTS version.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Um...never said he did. 😕

Then why did you brought it up?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
What offensive force powers does Kenobi have? They're Jedi... they don't typically use the force like that.

I know, its exactly what i was saying. It was a response to your statement

-If Anakin were to give into his emotions like he did with the tuskens and later, Dooku, then I'm sure he could find some ways to launch some offensive force attacks

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
whoa whoa whoa.... you know that was a completely different situation than when he completely and utterly destroyed Dooku. You know better than that. Don't try that Nebaris shit please.

Yea, i know, but Kenobi still survived his onslaught, whats his(Anakins) younger version going to do, who isn't as good, strong, fast....?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I said Anakin wouldn't freak out on OB1 like he did Dooku in AOTC. That certainly doesn't mean that he can't use his emotions to fuel to his attacks.

Well Obi-Wan could be a dick and just say something about Padme.
And yeah, he can use his emotions, but this is THE master of Soresu
and Anakin who is headstrong, inpatient, reckless...

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Considering they were the best team in the Order, they could figure something out. They aren't both going to just stand right in front of him and take turns attacking him. They're both craftier than that.

The same aplies in return. ROTS Kenobi isn't just going to stand there and let the team atack him at once. He will try to break them apart, he willl use faints to force them to get in eachothers way...
And the best team in order, performed miserably against Dooku twice.

[QUOTE=12247484]Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
[B]If a padawan OB1 can defeat a more deadly and powerful opponent (Maul) then certainly him and the chosen one can defeat an older OB1.

whoa whoa whoa.... you know that was a completely different situation. It was PIS and you know it. You know better than that. Don't try that Nebaris shit please.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
But the point is he did much better than OB1 did. Proof he was "toying' with them? Especially when Anakin saved OB1 from a sure shot death blow.

Yea, he did better, but he was still no match fore Dooku.
Well ok, he was toying with Obi-Wan, but didn't go all-out on Anakin either, look how easily he destroyed his second saber.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
How do you know? He mastered the ultimate refinement in saber to saber combat to the absolute highest degree. Kenobi mastered a defensive form designed at a time when an answer to blaster shots was needed. And yes he used the force. he was so in control of the saber duel at hand that he had the time to use the force against OB1 while simultaneously kicking Anakin in the chest.

ROTS novel.

Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics. He drove a series of flashing thrusts toward Kenobi's legs to draw the Jedi Master into a flipping overhead leap so that Dooku could burn through his spine from kidneys to shoulder blades-and this image, this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.

-Kenobi had become a master of Soresu.

Dooku found himself having a sudden, unexpected, overpowering, and entirely distressing bad feeling about this

Sure Dooku was surprised, when Kenobi switched to Soresu, but he still couldn't break trough his defences in the given time,that is why he used the Force, because he was worried, not because he was in control.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Again, if Dooku had a higher potential that OB1, which he almost certainly does, then it makes the point moot. We didn't see that great of improvement on the part of Kenobi, save for sabers, which we didn't really get to see much of in AOTC. I'm not saying he didn't improve. I'm saying it wasn't to that great of a degree, especially in the force.

I never said in the Force, i meant his general combat prowess. But he advanced hugely in sabers. He went from being a joke to Dooku, to see above.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I didn't say he was weak, but I wouldn't call him one of the greats either. What has he done with the force? Saw QGJ and came to see Luke? Wow...

Well ok, maybe not one of the greats, but very strong, i think the problem is, that most people thin of Yoda and compare all the Jedi to him and of course then they look weak. Hell, what did other Jedi, in the time of PT show with the Force?(except Mace)

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Wait, pwning GG with ease? Did we watch the same movie? He cut off two hands and then used a force push. He didn't defeat GG with a saber. He had to shoot him. He wasn't even effective with the staff. And he wasn't much more than a joke to Dooku in Sith either.

Yes with ease. He cut of his 2 hands easily and Force pushed Grievous, who then tried to escape. And he didn't defeat him with sabers, was because he lost his saber in the chase. And even with a staff, he still defeated him and hit him in the chest, GG only survived, because he had some kind of a steel chest and staffs weren't designed to hurt him.
He says something like this to Obi-Wan(i just don't remember where)

-Do you really think, i would equip my bodyguards, with weapons that could harm me?

Only in the Force, see above.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Studying? Time to refine skills? Guidance from greater masters? Just cause you're in wars doesn't mean that you will constantly be in situations that will allow you to improve on your force abilities. Saber skills, sure. I said he improved. But we don't know at what point he earned the moniker as THE Soresu master. It could have been right after AOTC for all we know.

I never meant his Force powers alone, but his overall combat ability. For
all we know it could have been 3 days before ROTS. You don't have proof to dispute, that he didn't advance allot in between the Episodes.
Like i said, he went from being a joke to Dooku, to holding his own against him with sabers.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
This begs proof. Mace fought along side in the CW and Dooku was being trained and instructed by Sidious, the most powerful DLOTS ever. They don't train the way Jedi do in peaceful surrounding and such. He was constantly busy carrying out Sidious' plans across the galaxy, and learning new DS techniques. Mace and OB1 weren't learning "new" dark techniques. I'd venture to say they weren't learning new LS techniques that late in life. And still, you're comparing 10 years and two people that are far more powerful to OB1 who only had 3 years to grow.

Yea, but he wasn't fighting as much as Kenobi, we see in the cartons,
novels that he stayed more in the temple, occasionally going to pitch in.
Dooku didn't spent all 10 years training every single day, he still has an CIS to run, meetings with important people...
I am not saying Kenobi advanced more then Dooku or Mace, but both of them were quite older and still advanced, why couldn't Kenobi in his 30s.
Are you saying, that he didn't grow after AOTC?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
That's exactly my point. You can't assume that he grew by a great amount when nothing suggested he did, save for becoming better in sabers

Yea, but your saying he only advanced by a little in sabers, i am saying, he advanced by allot. See the above quote from the ROTS novel.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Who else really grew that much in those three years other than Anakin?

No one as much as Anakin, but other people, including Kenobi, still grew.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
But he still has the power within him, he's just yet to learn to harness it. Given his natural abilities and then fact that AOTC OB1 wasn't far from his ROTS self, they would eventually overpower him

Yes, he has to learn to harness it, something he didn't menage to do, by AOTC, so all this power, want help him that much, if he has no control over it, or if he cant unleash at will.
ROTS Kenobi is quite, if not much better then his AOTC counterpart.
See above.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Like what?

I don't know, but he probably picked something up.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
How not? He doesn't know himself? Anakin doesn't know him? ROTS OB1 knew all that about Dooku the second time around and he ended up in a worst position.

They know about him and generally know what to expect, but they don't know exactly how he "evolved" and how good he has become, While ROTS Kenobi, knows everything about his former self and apprentice.
A small advantage for ROTS Kenobi.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I'll assume you meant "win." Not really. But it would depend on how they would use the environment around them. But unlikely in most scenarios.

Exactly, it would have to go to sabers, where ROTS Kenobi, who is a smarter fighter, the best combatant here, more calm, experienced(from the war), would eventually turn the battle in his favor. He would especially use the knowledge of AOTC Anakin(his weaknesses), to win this battle.

Sorry for the double post, it said i had to much characters.

Hey, I'm at work right now and when I get off, my wife and I have to go see our Realtor about a new house, but after that, I will come back and reply to you. Don't think I'm ducking you or conceded, lol. 😉

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yea, but the question is, could he tire him before, ROTS Obi-Wan defeats him, or is he actually good enough yet, to defeat him. Remember this is AOTC Anakin, who is way below of his ROTS version.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Then why did you brought it up?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I know, its exactly what i was saying. It was a response to your statement

-If Anakin were to give into his emotions like he did with the tuskens and later, Dooku, then I'm sure he could find some ways to launch some offensive force attacks

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yea, i know, but Kenobi still survived his onslaught, whats his(Anakins) younger version going to do, who isn't as good, strong, fast....?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Well Obi-Wan could be a dick and just say something about Padme.
And yeah, he can use his emotions, but this is THE master of Soresu
and Anakin who is headstrong, inpatient, reckless...

Originally posted by Count Makashi
whoa whoa whoa.... you know that was a completely different situation. It was PIS and you know it. You know better than that. Don't try that Nebaris shit please.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yea, he did better, but he was still no match fore Dooku.
Well ok, he was toying with Obi-Wan, but didn't go all-out on Anakin either, look how easily he destroyed his second saber.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
ROTS novel.

Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics. He drove a series of flashing thrusts toward Kenobi's legs to draw the Jedi Master into a flipping overhead leap so that Dooku could burn through his spine from kidneys to shoulder blades-and this image, this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.

-Kenobi had become a master of Soresu.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dooku found himself having a sudden, unexpected, overpowering, and entirely distressing bad feeling about this

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Sure Dooku was surprised, when Kenobi switched to Soresu, but he still couldn't break trough his defences in the given time,that is why he used the Force, because he was worried, not because he was in control.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I never said in the Force, i meant his general combat prowess. But he advanced hugely in sabers. He went from being a joke to Dooku, to see above.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Well ok, maybe not one of the greats, but very strong, i think the problem is, that most people thin of Yoda and compare all the Jedi to him and of course then they look weak. Hell, what did other Jedi, in the time of PT show with the Force?(except Mace)

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yes with ease. He cut of his 2 hands easily and Force pushed Grievous, who then tried to escape. And he didn't defeat him with sabers, was because he lost his saber in the chase. And even with a staff, he still defeated him and hit him in the chest, GG only survived, because he had some kind of a steel chest and staffs weren't designed to hurt him.
He says something like this to Obi-Wan(i just don't remember where)

-Do you really think, i would equip my bodyguards, with weapons that could harm me?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Only in the Force, see above.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I never meant his Force powers alone, but his overall combat ability. For
all we know it could have been 3 days before ROTS. You don't have proof to dispute, that he didn't advance allot in between the Episodes.
Like i said, he went from being a joke to Dooku, to holding his own against him with sabers.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yea, but he wasn't fighting as much as Kenobi, we see in the cartons,
novels that he stayed more in the temple, occasionally going to pitch in.
Dooku didn't spent all 10 years training every single day, he still has an CIS to run, meetings with important people...

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I am not saying Kenobi advanced more then Dooku or Mace, but both of them were quite older and still advanced, why couldn't Kenobi in his 30s.
Are you saying, that he didn't grow after AOTC?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yea, but your saying he only advanced by a little in sabers, i am saying, he advanced by allot. See the above quote from the ROTS novel.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
No one as much as Anakin, but other people, including Kenobi, still grew.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yes, he has to learn to harness it, something he didn't menage to do, by AOTC, so all this power, want help him that much, if he has no control over it, or if he cant unleash at will.
ROTS Kenobi is quite, if not much better then his AOTC counterpart.
See above.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I don't know, but he probably picked something up.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
They know about him and generally know what to expect, but they don't know exactly how he "evolved" and how good he has become, While ROTS Kenobi, knows everything about his former self and apprentice.
A small advantage for ROTS Kenobi.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Exactly, it would have to go to sabers, where ROTS Kenobi, who is a smarter fighter, the best combatant here, more calm, experienced(from the war), would eventually turn the battle in his favor. He would especially use the knowledge of AOTC Anakin(his weaknesses), to win this battle.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Sorry for the double post, it said i had to much characters.

I am busy today, i l respond tomorrow.

You, know what proves, that Kenobi advanced allot, Asajj Ventress.
In their first fights, Assaj easily holds her own against Kenobi and Anakin. She is about equal, if not better in their first fights.
But by, the time of Obsession(which takes what, a couple of months, before ROTS), she is no match for Kenobi anymore. He easily, effortlessly defends against her and isn't even attacking her, he just parries her strikes and is trying to redeem her, while she is in rage and attacking him furiously.
Obviously, Kenobi had to advance by allot, to go from about equal with Assaj, to easily defeat her. And Assaj was also growing, during the Clone Wars, so Kenobis growth had to be substantial.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't fly. Asajj is hardly a measuring stick. How can he "defeat" her if he, as you said, wasn't even attacking her? Escaping defeat or simply blocking attacks, is in no way, shape or form indicative of "easily defeating" someone in a duel. Dooku was blocking all of Yoda's "attacks" and he could never beat him. Granted, Yoda was holding back, but he was still attacking to subdue him, all strikes of which were blocked.

And yes, Obsession was about 6 months prior to Sith. But still, that doesn't indicate when he advanced. He had to have had improved before Obsession to contend with her.

AOTC Kenobi had not even BEGAN to use Soresu. By ROTS, he is "the master" of it. This title is given by Mace, and backed up by musings from Dooku, and by evidence with his fight with Grievous.

I read the Star Wars dictionary thingy one time, it said Obi-Wan had mastered 3 forms, Soresu being his best, but also Ataru, and something else............

Originally posted by truejedi
AOTC Kenobi had not even BEGAN to use Soresu. By ROTS, he is "the master" of it. This title is given by Mace, and backed up by musings from Dooku, and by evidence with his fight with Grievous.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Yes he did. He started right after QGJ died and saw how flawed that style was. He did not master Soresu in less then 3 years. That would make more prodigious that Anakin.

I would have to disagree: Consider:

AOTC: Pg. 341: "Obi-Wan stepped slowly at first, then cam on in a sudden rush, his blue blade coming in hard, right to left.

Pg. 342: "Against that posture, Obi-Wan's sudden flurry of attacks seemed exaggerated and inefficient, for Dooku defeated each, one after another....

Pg. 342: "Obi-Wan leapt and spun, slashing side to side, chopping and thrusting, but all of Dooku's movements seemed far more efficient.

Pg. 342: His words spurred OBi-Wan forward with another series of slashes and chops, but DOoku's red blade....

Pg 343: Then he exploded into motion, coming on again fiercely , his blue lightsaber flashing about. He kept a better measure of his cuts this time, thought, reversing his angle often, turning a wide slash into a sudden thurst, and he soon had dooku backing, the red blade working furiouly to keep Obi-Wan at bay.

pg 343: OBi-Wan pressed forward more forcefully, but Dooku continued...

Sound like SOresu to you? Not to me.

Also, from ROTS:

(While playing Dooku)

" While Kenobi came on in a measured Shii-Cho cadence."

"Kenobi's master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of time, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics.

He drove a series of flashing thrusts toward Kenobi's legs to draw the Jedi Master into a flipping overhead leap so that Dooku could burn through his spine from kidneys to shoulder blades-- and this image, this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice tha Kenobi met every one of thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort...and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys aswell.

Kenobi had become a master of Soresu.
"

So... Dooku had no idea that Kenobi knew Soresu. If Kenobi had used SOresu to fight with Dooku in AOTC (which the novel clearly describes as a form other than all the characteristics we have of Soresu) Then Dooku would not have been so surprised to see it in him in ROTS.

He may have used Shii-Cho, or Ataro in that fight, but not Soresu.

It also doesn't sound like the movie, as OB1 never did any of that.

Second one you quoted... you're taking completely out of context and you know it. He didn't become a master of Soresu during that fight. That's just saying that he and Anakin were using ploy forms with Dooku at the start of the fight.

And no, it doesn't describe a different form, as opposed to OB1 incorrectly trying to use a form he's not yet mastered. He switched to Soresu right after the death of QGJ after noticing how flawed it was.

Examples:

AOTC - Obi-Wan Kenobi uses Soresu against renowned bounty hunter Jango Fett, a masterful wielder of twin blasters. - wookiepedia - Form 3 with picture.

Obi-Wan Kenobi originally practiced Ataru,[16] but when the style's lack of defensive capability cost the life of his Master, he abandoned the style and began practicing Soresu. Eventually, his mastery grew to the point where he was able to defeat such seasoned swordsmen as Grievous, and Darth Vader during the duel on Mustafar.[10] - same source as above

give me a source other than wookie. i have heard your quote before, but i'm still not sure where it is from.

EDIT: also, what do you mean kenobi didn't do any of that? It was in the AOTC movie that i watched... Complete with the dialogue break in the middle of the fight.

You are saying you don't like this interpretation of the fight from AOTC. The description above certainly isn't contradicted by the movie.

ANd the quote from ROTS is not out of context. it proves that Dooku was surprised to see Obi-Wan using Soresu. Now why would he be surprised to see Soresu if Kenobi used it against him in AOTC?

It was in the OS's databank before they revamped it, then moved to its current location.

Then I have to watch it again, but I don't recall OB1 ever pressing forward and driving Dooku back. But it has been awhile, so I could be wrong. If so, I'll happily concede that portion.

As far as the first part about OB1 and switching - Star Wars insider # 62 - Fightsaber: Jedi Lightsaber Combat

I'd say that like in AOTC, Anakin gets cocky, rushes forward blindly, and then gets killed by RotS OB1. (Except in the movie he doesnt get killed). Then RotS OB1 comes in and destroys his weaker self. BUT if Anakin DIDN'T get cocky and rush forward, I'd say 2v1 would be too much for poor old RotS OB1 and the duo would win.