Darwin biopic "too controversial" for American release

Originally posted by Robtard
^Read it.

Guy says:

-scientist aren't charlatans

Indeed.

Originally posted by Robtard
^-we need not worry about [evolution] it for the time being

This would be a misinterpration of what he said. He said that our eternal salvation is not dependent on knowing the exact scientific process on how God created man.

Originally posted by Robtard
^--he has a heavy leaning towards ID

Odd considering he said that he would just as likely accept Adam being created from mud and water. Why would he make that clarification if he wasn't trying to dispell the idea that it's also possible Adam was created in the instant, "just add water" fashion? Simple, he didn't want to give the idea that he was too heavy towards evolution.

However, you do nothing to actually realize his point: Don't be a dumbass.

Quite simple.

Originally posted by dadudemon
This would be a misinterpration of what he said. He said that our eternal salvation is not dependent on knowing the exact scientific process on how God created man.

Odd considering he said that he would just as likely accept Adam being created from mud and water. Why would he make that clarification if he wasn't trying to dispell the idea that it's also possible Adam was created in the instant, "just add water" fashion? Simple, he didn't want to give the idea that he was too heavy towards evolution.

However, you do nothing to actually realize his point: Don't be a dumbass.

Quite simple.

Fair enough, though I felt he later went on beyond just the "to be saved" concept and felt knowing evolution to be true or false is something not important for now in the general sense.

I meant just in regards to his viewpoint on evolution, ie if evolution happened, then as he said "God did it."

LoL @ Butt-hurt. I have my own views of what his point it.

Do tell me what his point is, iyo.

Originally posted by Robtard
^Read it.

Guy says:

-scientist aren't charlatans

-we need not worry about [evolution] it for the time being

-he has a heavy leaning towards ID

I read it, what's so shocking? I was just saying that the critics I read have said that the film isn't so great.

As far as this "debate" goes, the religionists are guilty until proven innocent as far as evidence is concerned. If it wasn't this way, then we would be forced to take them at their word.

Originally posted by Robtard
Fair enough, though I felt he later went on beyond just the "to be saved" concept and felt knowing evolution to be true or false is something not important for now in the general sense.

Sort of. It was the "spiritual sense", not general sense. He encrouages the scientific discovery.

Originally posted by Robtard
I meant just in regards to his viewpoint on evolution, ie if evolution happened, then as he said "God did it."

Yeah, I see now. That's what I personally believe.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL @ Butt-hurt. I have my own views of what his point it.

Do tell me what his point is, iyo.

lol

You damned woman.

I wasn't calling YOU a dumbass.

Reread this again:

"However, you do nothing to actually realize his point: Don't be a dumbass.

Quite simple. "

Originally posted by dadudemon

Reread this again:

"However, you do nothing to actually realize his point: Don't be a dumbass.

Quite simple. "

It's the same as the first time I read it, jackass.

His point, or one of his points is: Let us come together both creationist and evolutionist, to find the truth, for the betterment of mankind. Though the answer is not all that important, in the bigger scheme of things, God bless.

His motive: He's not a stupid person and he realizes that if the Mormon church sticks blindly to 4K+ year old ideas, modern science will show those ideas to be improbable to outright impossible in time. So as to not get egg on the face of Mormonism, he's taking the the smart approach. "There's scientific data that conflicts with scripture which can't be dismissed, it's [origins] not all that important though, all I know is that God did it, whatever it may be." AKA The Safe-Card.

The only important thing is that God did it. I might say in that regard that in my mind the theory of evolution has to include a notion that the dice have been loaded from the beginning in favor of more complex life forms. That is, without intelligent design of the natural laws in such a way as to favor evolution from lower forms to higher forms of life, I don't think the theory holds water. I can't see randomly generated natural laws producing these remarkable results.

AKA, "If I can't explain away contradictions to my belief, i'm just going to ignore it."

Originally posted by Robtard
It's the same as the first time I read it, jackass.

K. 😐

So, do you or do you not think I was calling YOU a dumbass?

Originally posted by Robtard
His point, or one of his points is: Let us come together both creationist and evolutionist, to find the truth, for the betterment of mankind. Though the answer is not all that important, in the bigger scheme of things, God bless.

Sounds good, almost. He is more or less admonishing, in the nicest way he can, people, specifically close minded Mormons, who call scientists quacks n'stuff, for saying anything that they think runs contradictory to their beliefs. And, no, how man was created is not important to salvation. I don't see how it could be. The fact that He DID create man is the actually point, which is muddied up by close minded Christians all the time, which is what he was talking about.

Originally posted by Robtard
His motive: He's not a stupid person and he realizes that if the Mormon church sticks blindly to 4K+ year old ideas, modern science will show those ideas to be improbable to outright impossible in time. So as to not get egg on the face of Mormonism, he's taking the the smart approach. "There's scientific data that conflicts with scripture which can't be dismissed, it's [origins] not all that important though, all I know is that God did it, whatever it may be." AKA The Safe-Card.

So, you're saying that you don't like it that a high-ranking Christian official is telling his members to not blindly dismiss science if it runs contradictory to what they hold as true? That's a safe-card to you? I was thinking more along the lines of "don't be a dumbass." But, if you want to call it a "safe-card" because you're trying to be derogatory, that's fine. Religion isn't for everyone. 🙂 Following a mythical being that is never seen, heard, etc. is kind of a stretch for some.

Originally posted by King Kandy
AKA, "If I can't explain away contradictions to my belief, i'm just going to ignore it."

I was thinking more like, "evolution is fully plausible, but I believe it was done through an intelligent being."

Oh well. Different interpretations for different people.

Edit - I think you quoted the wrong section. He is not talking about ignoring it at all. Rather, he is explaining how evolution could work with ID.

Originally posted by dadudemon

So, you're saying that you don't like it that a high-ranking Christian official is telling his members to not blindly dismiss science if it runs contradictory to what they hold as true? That's a safe-card to you? I was thinking more along the lines of "don't be a dumbass." But, if you want to call it a "safe-card" because you're trying to be derogatory, that's fine.

Religion isn't for everyone. 🙂 Following a mythical being that is never seen, heard, etc. is kind of a stretch for some.

I do like the first part, he seemed genuinely sincere.

But in the end, he's basically just saying "I don't know; it doesn't really matter, all that does matter is that God did it, as fact." So whatever science proves, he's sticking to God. Science proves man evolved, God did it. Science proves that aliens laid the basis for life on Earth, God did ***, by making the aliens first. AKA The Safe-Card.

I believe in God; I don't believe any man written text to be a viable story of God's doings, motives, actions etc.

Originally posted by Robtard
I do like the first part, he seemed genuinely sincere.

But in the end, he's basically just saying "I don't know, it doesn't really matter, all that does matter, God did it, as fact." So whatever science proves, he's sticking to God. Science proves man evolved, God did it. Science proves that aliens laid the basis for life on Earth, God did ***, by making the aliens first. AKA The Safe-Card.

Cool. And, I don't see any problem with that. To someone who, no matter what, will believe in God, science only further proves God's existance. Yes, I am serious. He even alluded to that with his "God's secrets hidden everywhere" comment when referring to sediments.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I was thinking more like, "evolution is fully plausible, but I believe it was done through an intelligent being."

Oh well. Different interpretations for different people.

Edit - I think you quoted the wrong section. He is not talking about ignoring it at all. Rather, he is explaining how evolution could work with ID.

This is from that "If evolution doesn't prefer complex organisms, then it's false, evidence be damned" part.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I didn't quote the wrong section, but I did state it very poorly, what I should have said was "I accept all science, but if it's unreconcilable with my beliefs, then it must be wrong."

This is from that "If evolution doesn't prefer complex organisms, then it's false, evidence be damned" part.

No offense, because you're my homie, but...

That's not what he was saying at all. He basically ripped Mormons a new one for discarding science when it suits them.

"Many avoid seeking understanding from science because they believe that any theory in conflict with the Lord's revelations will finally be proven false."

Then, he basically puts it out there, indirectly making fun of young earth theorists in his own polite manner.

"We have a dilemma, however, because God has left messages all over in the physical world that scientists have learned to read. These messages are quite clear, well-understood, and accepted in science. That is, the theories that the earth is about four-and-one-half billion years old and that life evolved over the last billion years or so are as well established scientifically as many theories ever are."

For me, that's really what he's saying. That was actually his point. He didn't have the hidden agenda of trying to rationlize his beliefs. His whole point was to say exactly what I said before: Don't be a dumbass.

I posted that because I wanted to show that there ARE high ranking Christian officials who who hold old Earth theory and evolution as fully plausible methods employed by God, such as myself. 😄 My point is, not all Christians are idiots.

Just a film.

I for one want to watch it.

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
Just a film.

I for one want to watch it.

That's what she said. 😐

Originally posted by dadudemon
No offense, because you're my homie, but...

That's not what he was saying at all. He basically ripped Mormons a new one for discarding science when it suits them.

"Many avoid seeking understanding from science because they believe that any theory in conflict with the Lord's revelations will finally be proven false."

Then, he basically puts it out there, indirectly making fun of young earth theorists in his own polite manner.

"We have a dilemma, however, because God has left messages all over in the physical world that scientists have learned to read. These messages are quite clear, well-understood, and accepted in science. That is, the theories that the earth is about four-and-one-half billion years old and that life evolved over the last billion years or so are as well established scientifically as many theories ever are."

For me, that's really what he's saying. That was actually his point. He didn't have the hidden agenda of trying to rationlize his beliefs. His whole point was to say exactly what I said before: Don't be a dumbass.

I posted that because I wanted to show that there ARE high ranking Christian officials who who hold old Earth theory and evolution as fully plausible methods employed by God, such as myself. 😄 My point is, not all Christians are idiots.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But in that quote I showed he basically said that if Evolution does not have ID aspects, then it can't possibly be correct... he said that evolution could not possibly be correct if it did not favor complex organisms, for no reason other than it would contradict his beliefs.

K. I agree there. I also don't see a way for evolution to work out without ID playing a part, at some point, even if that point was at the big bang.

But the difference, I hope, is that if somehow overwhelming evidence showed evolution doesn't favor complex lifeforms, you would accept that.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But the difference, I hope, is that if somehow overwhelming evidence showed evolution doesn't favor complex lifeforms, you would accept that.

But...there's always the safe-card of God did that too from waaaaaaay back when. No matter what, there's always a way out to say God did it. Even the big bang, or before that, or before that. (I'm referring to the multiverse...and then to "branes".)

If there's overwhelming evidence for evolution, like there is now, then there's still a way out: God set it up eons ago to end up like it is.

I'm not talking about ID, that's untestable. I'm talking about "evolution favors complex organisms", which is testable.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I'm not talking about ID, that's untestable. I'm talking about "evolution favors complex organisms", which is testable.

Cool. And, I think there's no way to prove, beyond restricting the enviroment to make it as hostile as possible for life, to disprove that evolution does not favor complex organizations. But, that' is in no way evidence of ID playing a part in evolution, imo.