Monarch VS Thanos, Hulk and Juggernaut

Originally posted by Galan007
during the majority of that battle, monarch was monologing to prime, and antagonizing him - ie. he certainly wasn't fighting to his "arena" standards. however, in a forum battle, monarch is going to be fighting at said level. having said that, i can't imaging thanos being able to get in close enough to physically rip his suit open. *shrugs*

remember, during "arena" monarch simultaneously owned every version of captain atom throughout the multiverse + numerous GL's + several superman... with utter ease [something i honestly can't imaging thanos doing.] and as far as h2h goes, monarch was able to no less than stalemate prime [as we saw during "countdown".]

All very valid points, that I agree with for the most part having read the comics. However, I have a few questions that I would like your opinion on.

1. Whether or not Thanos could solo, do you think the team wins in said fight?
2. I don't remember and TK assault on Monarch, so does he have a good resistance to that kinda of an attack? I saw no matter manipulation attempt nor TK assault IIRC
3. Seems to me, that Monarch didn't mind going h2h in the least and actually invited it against Prime. I don't think he would back away from a h2h confrontation and thus I don't see why Thanos couldn't get close.
4. Even if Thanos isn't able to get close right away, wouldn't you agree he has a much wider and more potent long distance arsenal than Prime does? Thus, is very capable of having the battle take place like that for awhile and hold his own.

Without PIS/CIS/BFR, Monarch can probably beat them in pure H2H.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Without PIS/CIS/BFR, Monarch can probably beat them in pure H2H.

1. He loses 10/10
2. He wins

Monarch has a higher chance of winning if he uses his full power. H2h is not what he excels in.

As for him running, he ran from the Monitors.

Originally posted by iceman24567
1. He loses 10/10
2. He wins

2. He loses this one, due to Thanos.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
How?
1. He has the strength and energy output to keep up with the 3. And they do not have the same versatility in melee combat as Superboy-Prime.

2. He loses this one, due to Thanos.

Monarch might win 1 but gets raped in the second

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
1. Whether or not Thanos could solo, do you think the team wins in said fight?
2. I don't remember and TK assault on Monarch, so does he have a good resistance to that kinda of an attack? I saw no matter manipulation attempt nor TK assault IIRC
3. Seems to me, that Monarch didn't mind going h2h in the least and actually invited it against Prime. I don't think he would back away from a h2h confrontation and thus I don't see why Thanos couldn't get close.
4. Even if Thanos isn't able to get close right away, wouldn't you agree he has a much wider and more potent long distance arsenal than Prime does? Thus, is very capable of having the battle take place like that for awhile and hold his own.

2.) the 'regular' captain atom had some form of TK-resistance, so naturally, monarch would have said resistance as well - though i'm honestly not sure how impressive it was. however, do you honestly believe thanos would have enough time to use TK against a PIS-free monarch? i don't think so personally..

as far as matter matter manipulation-resistance goes, look at the dozens of characters monarch owned [firestorms', captain atoms', GLs', etc.] most of their attacks literally deflected right off of him.

3.) monarch spent the bulk of that battle making fun of prime. he used very few offensive energy attacks. because we know what he is well capable of [via "arena"] we know that in a PIS free setting, he's not just going to sit there and fight people h2h. he is going to use his uber energy skills to their max.

4.) don't understand what you mean..?

Originally posted by thanos-prime
he could teleport to get close enough or use tk

YouTube video

juggernaut is heihachi mishima

😖hifty:

😂 hahah I can see that happening if they don't get pushed by a blast.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
YouTube video

juggernaut is heihachi mishima

😖hifty:

Originally posted by Galan007
1.) unless it's h2h, juggy/hulk are useless. even in the h2h scenario, monarch more or less stalemated prime - so i could definitely see him doing very well.

2.) the 'regular' captain atom had some form of TK-resistance, so naturally, monarch would have said resistance as well - though i'm honestly not sure how impressive it was. however, do you honestly believe thanos would have enough time to use TK against a PIS-free monarch? i don't think so personally..

as far as matter matter manipulation-resistance goes, look at the dozens of characters monarch owned [firestorms', captain atoms', GLs', etc.] most of their attacks literally deflected right off of him.

3.) monarch spent the bulk of that battle making fun of prime. he used very few offensive energy attacks. because we know what he is well capable of [via "arena"] we know that in a PIS free setting, he's not just going to sit there and fight people h2h. he is going to use his uber energy skills to their max.

4.) don't understand what you mean..?

1. I wouldn't say totally useless. I mean after all Monarch really would have to concentrate on Thanos and would be spending most of his time exchanging with him. I don't see monarch being able to put juggs down for the count and thus he might be able to get close. Especially if Monarch is busy dealing with Thanos. Furthermore, I don't get one thing.. How do you figure in a h2h confrontation Monarch would do just fine. Stalemating Prime is good.. But going toe to toe with Thanos, Juggs and Hulk and you feel like he would do just fine? Punches aren't putting down Juggs and maybe hulk (depending what level he get to) and Thanos isn't KO'd at all really and certainly not by punches. In a h2h encounter I think the team pretty easily takes down Monarch.

2. As far as the TP/TK goes.. I don't remember much of anything in Monarch's run. I agree I don't see Thanos doing that unless he had to (losing the fight badly), but that is one v one. However, if Monarch is having to deal with Juggs and Hulk coming at him and the former being really hard to put down, thanos would have time to try that tactic. Whether he would or not is another matter.

I agree I doubt matter manipulation would work considering who Monarch fought who were capable of such tactics.

3. I agree and understand your point about a PIS environment and not having to go toe to toe. However, they also have to fight in character on KMC, and to me, that is just kinda how Monarch is. He can be very brass and over-confident and thus it is possible from what we've seen on panel that he decides to go h2h.

4. My thinking here was this.... Thanos even at long range can do just fine. He has much more versatility the Prime. Prime had to get in close to do his damage and where he fights best. Thanos does not. So, just because Monarch is good long range that doesn't spell doom for Thanos in the least. He's very capable at fighting at that range and has many options. Remember, he has shielding which certainly could hold up against monarch for awhile considering what its held up against prior. So, while in his shielding blasting, TP, etc all work just fine. Also, would you agree that Thanos's blast are more potent than anybody Monarch faced? Anyways, my point on 4 was that Thanos doesn't really have to fear a long distance battle with Monarch considering is wide variety of powers and shielding. The same isn't true for Prime who had to get in close.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
1. I wouldn't say totally useless. I mean after all Monarch really would have to concentrate on Thanos and would be spending most of his time exchanging with him. I don't see monarch being able to put juggs down for the count and thus he might be able to get close. Especially if Monarch is busy dealing with Thanos. Furthermore, I don't get one thing.. How do you figure in a h2h confrontation Monarch would do just fine. Stalemating Prime is good.. But going toe to toe with Thanos, Juggs and Hulk and you feel like he would do just fine? Punches aren't putting down Juggs and maybe hulk (depending what level he get to) and Thanos isn't KO'd at all really and certainly not by punches. In a h2h encounter I think the team pretty easily takes down Monarch.

2. As far as the TP/TK goes.. I don't remember much of anything in Monarch's run. I agree I don't see Thanos doing that unless he had to (losing the fight badly), but that is one v one. However, if Monarch is having to deal with Juggs and Hulk coming at him and the former being really hard to put down, thanos would have time to try that tactic. Whether he would or not is another matter.

I agree I doubt matter manipulation would work considering who Monarch fought who were capable of such tactics.

3. I agree and understand your point about a PIS environment and not having to go toe to toe. However, they also have to fight in character on KMC, and to me, that is just kinda how Monarch is. He can be very brass and over-confident and thus it is possible from what we've seen on panel that he decides to go h2h.

4. My thinking here was this.... Thanos even at long range can do just fine. He has much more versatility the Prime. Prime had to get in close to do his damage and where he fights best. Thanos does not. So, just because Monarch is good long range that doesn't spell doom for Thanos in the least. He's very capable at fighting at that range and has many options. Remember, he has shielding which certainly could hold up against monarch for awhile considering what its held up against prior. So, while in his shielding blasting, TP, etc all work just fine. Also, would you agree that Thanos's blast are more potent than anybody Monarch faced? Anyways, my point on 4 was that Thanos doesn't really have to fear a long distance battle with Monarch considering is wide variety of powers and shielding. The same isn't true for Prime who had to get in close.

1.) monarch doesn't need to put juggy down - all he has to do is avoid him [a task I doubt it would be very difficult considering his teleportation abilities.] plus, monarch's faced a whole lot more than 3 foes at once, and done just fine.

Furthermore, even the combined JLA/JSA [of which packs a MUCH bigger wallop than thanos/juggy/hulk] were not able to put superboy prime down - yet monarch was able to go toe to toe with him, while not fighting to his 'max' [ie. mainly h2h.] so by that coin, monarch should be able to do extremely well against this trio, imo.

2.) monarch *specifically* didn't have any TK-resistance feats i can think of. however, captain atom [who is monarch], did. and again, i personally don't view hulk and juggy as real threats outside of a strictly h2h environment. just MO.

3.) by that logic, what's more 'in character' for monarch? The 4 issues of "arena" where he owned anyone and everyone with dominative ease, or the 1 issue of "countdown" where he battled prime h2h?

4.) yes. thanos' ranged attacks are VERY powerful. but are his attacks more powerful than 52 separate captain atoms' [of whom monarch effortlessly owned?] I'm hard pressed to think so personally.

Am i crazy or is Monarch (Hank Hall)...different than Monarch (Captain Atom)? the OP states Monarch (Hank Hall)....why are their discussions about countdown and Captain Atoms feats?.....i thought it was made clear that Captain Atom Had the future Tech Suit of Monarch augmenting his power....was it revealed that it was Hank Hall the whole time?...did i miss something?

Originally posted by starlock
Am i crazy or is Monarch (Hank Hall)...different than Monarch (Captain Atom)? the OP states Monarch (Hank Hall)....why are their discussions about countdown and Captain Atoms feats?.....i thought it was made clear that Captain Atom Had the future Tech Suit of Monarch augmenting his power....was it revealed that it was Hank Hall the whole time?...did i miss something?

but yeah, using strictly hank-monarch's feats, he gets the beatdown.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
YouTube video

juggernaut is heihachi mishima

😖hifty:

Kazuya is a dick.

Originally posted by Galan007
i never read the OP, but you're right. hank hall = hawk = monarch = extant. that character is very different from the more recent incarnation of captain atom-monarch. though it was mentioned [during "extreme justice" iirc] that captain atom-monarch was actually a copy of hank-monarch, created as a side effect of the process that trapped him in the timestream.

but yeah, using strictly hank-monarch's feats, he gets the beatdown.

Whew..thanks...i thought i missed something important.....i do remember in countdown they have a brief origin of Monarch....i was wondering if they retconned it or revealed a switch-a-roo 😆

Originally posted by Galan007
1.) monarch doesn't need to put juggy down - all he has to do is avoid him [a task I doubt it would be very difficult considering his teleportation abilities.] plus, monarch's faced a whole lot more than 3 foes at once, and done just fine.

Furthermore, even the combined JLA/JSA [of which packs a MUCH bigger wallop than thanos/juggy/hulk] were not able to put superboy prime down - yet monarch was able to go toe to toe with him, while not fighting to his 'max' [ie. mainly h2h.] so by that coin, monarch should be able to do extremely well against this trio, imo.

2.) monarch *specifically* didn't have any TK-resistance feats i can think of. however, captain atom [who is monarch], did. and again, i personally don't view hulk and juggy as real threats outside of a strictly h2h environment. just MO.

3.) by that logic, what's more 'in character' for monarch? The [b]4 issues of "arena" where he owned anyone and everyone with dominative ease, or the 1 issue of "countdown" where he battled prime h2h?

4.) yes. thanos' ranged attacks are VERY powerful. but are his attacks more powerful than 52 separate captain atoms' [of whom monarch effortlessly owned?] I'm hard pressed to think so personally. [/B]

As always good points Galan.

1. While he can teleport, we can really call that in character for him to do. Actually, I would think its the opposite, and its in character for him to engage in a fight not telport all over the place. So, I really don't see him using that tactic to avoid Juggs. I guess we disagree on the JLA/JSA argument. In terms of versatility of powers and more people I agree they pack more of a punch. However, I thought we were talking about (at least in this section) strictly hand 2 hand. I see Thanos, Juggs, and Hulk being able to put down the JLA/JSA eventually. Yes it would be tough but IMO they would get the job done. While you say they didn't put down prime.. I could easily say they wouldn't be able to put down Juggs or Thanos. The point is h2h is where Juggs and Hulk excel, thus why I think in a strictly h2h encounter Thanos, Juggs and Hulk win.

2. We agree on this point. We don't know if Monarch has that ability or resistance and we know Thanos has very good TP. So, while a viable tactic and option, I really don't see Thanos doing that during said fight.

3. I'll concede that point on what is more in character. However, I point out that IIRC he was still exhibiting the same cockiness as he was with Prime. Only difference was he was using a wider array of powers. So, while you do have a point on how he would fight, we can't completely say he wouldn't resort to engaging this team. He does have a history of being overconfident and doing so during battles. However, point taken on how he's fought most of the time, which wasn't mostly h2h.

4. While I don't know but agree Thanos attacks might not be as powerful as those combined attacks. What I also know, is that all 52 atoms don't have the shielding and durability that thanos does. So, yes offensively if they all fired their best attack at the same time it might be more than one attack from Thanos. However, IIRC they didn't go about it that way and again Thanos has his shielding + durability, plus very powerful attacks (h2h or energy) and more versatility which at least to me says he would do very well. Monarch would never really be able to put down Juggs and thus he would be a constant nuisance to which Thanos could and would take advantage of. Its all subjective but I would say one Thanos attack is worth more than many of those Atoms attacks but probably not all 52 at once.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
As always good points Galan.

1. While he can teleport, we can really call that in character for him to do. Actually, I would think its the opposite, and its in character for him to engage in a fight not telport all over the place. So, I really don't see him using that tactic to avoid Juggs. I guess we disagree on the JLA/JSA argument. In terms of versatility of powers and more people I agree they pack more of a punch. However, I thought we were talking about (at least in this section) strictly hand 2 hand. I see Thanos, Juggs, and Hulk being able to put down the JLA/JSA eventually. Yes it would be tough but IMO they would get the job done. While you say they didn't put down prime.. I could easily say they wouldn't be able to put down Juggs or Thanos. The point is h2h is where Juggs and Hulk excel, thus why I think in a strictly h2h encounter Thanos, Juggs and Hulk win.

2. We agree on this point. We don't know if Monarch has that ability or resistance and we know Thanos has very good TP. So, while a viable tactic and option, I really don't see Thanos doing that during said fight.

3. I'll concede that point on what is more in character. However, I point out that IIRC he was still exhibiting the same cockiness as he was with Prime. Only difference was he was using a wider array of powers. So, while you do have a point on how he would fight, we can't completely say he wouldn't resort to engaging this team. He does have a history of being overconfident and doing so during battles. However, point taken on how he's fought most of the time, which wasn't mostly h2h.

4. While I don't know but agree Thanos attacks might not be as powerful as those combined attacks. What I also know, is that all 52 atoms don't have the shielding and durability that thanos does. So, yes offensively if they all fired their best attack at the same time it might be more than one attack from Thanos. However, IIRC they didn't go about it that way and again Thanos has his shielding + durability, plus very powerful attacks (h2h or energy) and more versatility which at least to me says he would do very well. Monarch would never really be able to put down Juggs and thus he would be a constant nuisance to which Thanos could and would take advantage of. Its all subjective but I would say one Thanos attack is worth more than many of those Atoms attacks but probably not all 52 at once.

1.) i still disagree where the h2h argument is concerned - but since i've already stated my points, i'll just agree to disagree. 🙂

2.) 👆

3.) yes, the cockiness may have still been there in "arena", but the poor battle tactics were not [which was my main point.]

4.) I guess where i was going is that i *personally* can't see thanos simultaneously beating 52 versions of captain atom/several supermen/numerous lanterns - and even if he did, I REALLY doubt he'd do so as effortlessly as monarch.

having said that, i feel that monarch simply operates at a higher level than thanos/hulk/juggy. that's why i see him defeating them with a fair amount of ease in the 'all out' category.

---

at any rate, none of our debate thus far really matters. afterall, it's the hank hall-monarch that's being used here lol.