Originally posted by iceman24567
Well in my opinion unless Tyrant has done so on panel we can't assume he will do so in a forum battle then again thats just using common sense..
Ummm actually that is exactly what your NOT using. Common sense tells us both Galactus and Tyrant probably can. So, then your saying Galactus has no CA powers as surfer does since he hasn't displayed this on panel.. Interesting theory... that lacks common sense...
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The point is... how can anybody say Monarch owned things with a greater amount of ease than Tyrant when Monarch in actuality LOST. You can say it was overconfidence and you can spin it however you want. Fact is, he lost and therefore nothing was easier than what Tyrant did. Tyrant has NO bad showings.. NONE. He fought tougher people than Monarch and still never lost. He ended up getting defeated by multiple UN blasts, but that is hardly what I would call "losing" a fight. It matters not if Tyrant fought them ALL at once... The fact is he faced tougher competition in Thanos and Galactus alone and had the upper hand in both. Monarch faced... a lot of CA, Superman, GL fodder and a host of others that Galactus could problem one shot all at the same time. Prime is greater than Tyrant.. lol. Based on what? Prime has no armor to open up on Tyrant.. Tyrant has cosmic awareness and Prime is still weak to Red Sun. Not to mention again the versatility edge Tyrant would hold. Tyrant physically manhandled Thanos after a initial good battle such that Thanos hasn't had done to him before. Yes, we are talking about Thanos who is peers imo with Prime strength wise. Of course with Thanos holding the versatility and overall power edge over prime. I'm just using those two because they are far greater than anyone Monarch faced. That is without even going into the high heralds he beat that again are better than any of the CA's, GL's, WW etc etc. The point is.. it was Tyrant who fought the tougher competition and had no bad showings and did so with greater ease, not Monarch.
I don't know where you get the Thanos is a peer with Prime. They are close when it comes to fight, but Prime with the GA is above Thanos. You can spin it all YOU want, but from what I've seen, Thanos hasn't broken barrier of any sort. He isn't as fast, nor is he as durable. IN my opinion, Prime with GA>Tyrant, or Thanos. For pity's sake, he took a hit that would kill a Guardian. He even took a universal blast. He himself defeated about 32 lanterns in a matter of seconds. And you have the audacity to say he is weak???
You also compare the fight with Prime and Monarch to Tyrant and Thanos. Need I remind you how the fight went. Monarch's armor was breached. He was shocked. That's NOT something he would allow if he knew what Prime was capable of. He clearly underestimated him. Also, wasn't Galactus weakened with that fight against Tyrant? Didn't he own him later on?
Also, what does Prime's weakness got to do with this fight. yeah Tyrant "might" have CA, but he never used it. Hell if you are going to say he can use it, then Prime can use the same attack that Superman used against DS. The counter-Vibration. That would kill Tyrant in one second. Guess what? he ain't going to use it because he never has done it. He doesn't have the option and the ability to do it, but he doesn't. Just like Tyrant with his CA.
Against Prime, versatility doesn't help. When has it worked?? Red Sun radiation failed more often then not. Magic never worked, Energy blast just get him bad. It takes a huge amount of power to hurt him. Then we got the speed problem. He is easily faster then Tyrant.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiMonarch in actuality LOST
The point is... how can anybody say Monarch owned things with a greater amount of ease than Tyrant when Monarch in actuality LOST. You can say it was overconfidence and you can spin it however you want. Fact is, he lost and therefore nothing was easier than what Tyrant did. Tyrant has NO bad showings.. NONE. He fought tougher people than Monarch and still never lost. He ended up getting defeated by multiple UN blasts, but that is hardly what I would call "losing" a fight. It matters not if Tyrant fought them ALL at once... The fact is he faced tougher competition in Thanos and Galactus alone and had the upper hand in both. Monarch faced... a lot of CA, Superman, GL fodder and a host of others that Galactus could problem one shot all at the same time. Prime is greater than Tyrant.. lol. Based on what? Prime has no armor to open up on Tyrant.. Tyrant has cosmic awareness and Prime is still weak to Red Sun. Not to mention again the versatility edge Tyrant would hold. Tyrant physically manhandled Thanos after a initial good battle such that Thanos hasn't had done to him before. Yes, we are talking about Thanos who is peers imo with Prime strength wise. Of course with Thanos holding the versatility and overall power edge over prime. I'm just using those two because they are far greater than anyone Monarch faced. That is without even going into the high heralds he beat that again are better than any of the CA's, GL's, WW etc etc. The point is.. it was Tyrant who fought the tougher competition and had no bad showings and did so with greater ease, not Monarch.
he didnt lose. he stalemated, and he stalemated PRIME. Prime is physically no joke. and he showed to be atleast equal to him. I think depowered tyrant falls to prime
Originally posted by iceman24567
Right so here on forums you would give Tyrant the win over Prime using cosmic awareness that he has never used before? For your info Galactus has used cosmic awareness before.
Good then you can provide the scans of him scanning an enemy for a weakness in a battle situation and finding his weakness. GO
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiNah thats not what i typed nor what i thought you meant. Either way Tyrant scanning Prime for weaknesses isn't only out of character but it can't be supported by on panel feats.
Good then you can provide the scans of him scanning an enemy for a weakness in a battle situation and finding his weakness. GO
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Again! You are acting as if Prime is weak. The dude breaks Barriers with his fist alone. He tanks Universal attacks and lives to tell the tale. He takes on the most powerful opponents like Monarch, (That wizard), and laughs at them.I don't know where you get the Thanos is a peer with Prime. They are close when it comes to fight, but Prime with the GA is above Thanos. You can spin it all YOU want, but from what I've seen, Thanos hasn't broken barrier of any sort. He isn't as fast, nor is he as durable. IN my opinion, Prime with GA>Tyrant, or Thanos. For pity's sake, he took a hit that would kill a Guardian. He even took a universal blast. He himself defeated about 32 lanterns in a matter of seconds. And you have the audacity to say he is weak???
You also compare the fight with Prime and Monarch to Tyrant and Thanos. Need I remind you how the fight went. Monarch's armor was breached. He was shocked. That's NOT something he would allow if he knew what Prime was capable of. He clearly underestimated him. Also, wasn't Galactus weakened with that fight against Tyrant? Didn't he own him later on?
Also, what does Prime's weakness got to do with this fight. yeah Tyrant "might" have CA, but he never used it. Hell if you are going to say he can use it, then Prime can use the same attack that Superman used against DS. The counter-Vibration. That would kill Tyrant in one second. Guess what? he ain't going to use it because he never has done it. He doesn't have the option and the ability to do it, but he doesn't. Just like Tyrant with his CA.
Against Prime, versatility doesn't help. When has it worked?? Red Sun radiation failed more often then not. Magic never worked, Energy blast just get him bad. It takes a huge amount of power to hurt him. Then we got the speed problem. He is easily faster then Tyrant.
Show me at any point where I said Prime was weak? I never said Prime was weak and actually called him Monarch's best opponent. I like Prime as a character and never once said nor claimed he was weak. What I did dispute and prove was that Monarch certainly did nothing "easier" than Tyrant did. You can never do something easier when you get KILLED in a one v one encounter. DP Tyrant has no such showings and never lost one not one vs. battle he fought. So, again.. I disputed your claim that Monarch fought tougher people and did so easier. That has been proven false. It was actually Tyrant who fought tougher people and never once lost. Need I remind you... Galactus would probably one shot the "team" that Monarch wrecked. When you add up who they fought.. Tyrant clearly fought the tougher opposition and did so with relative ease.
For the record and the scans are available. Galactus WAS NOT weak and actually fed on a planet that had him say he hadn't felt this good in very long time. He knew the battle was coming i.e. where the prep came in. So, Tyrant had on the ropes a Well-Fed and Prepped Galactus.
Red sun actually did work and yes not as well as with regular superman but it did contain him for awhile. Also remember who else survived that universal destroying blast via shields? Prime wasn't the only one. Regardless, this isn't Prime vs. DP Tyrant. This is Tyrant vs. Monarch. Your reasoning that Monarch had tough opposition and did so easier was false as I've shown It was Tyrant who faced the tougher competition and did so with ease.
Originally posted by iceman24567
Nah thats not what i typed nor what i thought you meant. Either way Tyrant scanning Prime for weaknesses isn't only out of character but it can't be supported by on panel feats.
Ummm how can you say you weren't sure what I meant. I laid it out very clearly in our earlier discussion. I said SS has scanned an enemy using CA yet Galactus never has. By your theory then, since Galactus has never done that he can't. Although common sense tells us Galactus more certainly should be able to being that SS only has a fraction of Galactus power. By that same token Tyrant was made to be Galactus equal and in his image.. again someone with considerably more PC than SS.. yet he can't as well. Nah I don't buy it.
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiDude relax i skimmed threw what you wrote and i was kinda in the sky you know 😮 . I understand exactly what you mean but you can't give him a win on wishful thinking not on here that just isn't fair it's like saying Barry Allen can do whatever anybody connected to the speed force can do because he's the avatar of the speedforce like giving him Wally's speed stealing ability. Like i said unless you can prove he is capable of such things on panel you can't give him a majority solely based on your speculation.
Ummm how can you say you weren't sure what I meant. I laid it out very clearly in our earlier discussion. I said SS has scanned an enemy using CA yet Galactus never has. By your theory then, since Galactus has never done that he can't. Although common sense tells us Galactus more certainly should be able to being that SS only has a fraction of Galactus power. By that same token Tyrant was made to be Galactus equal and in his image.. again someone with considerably more PC than SS.. yet he can't as well. Nah I don't buy it.
Originally posted by iceman24567
Dude relax i skimmed threw what you wrote and i was kinda in the sky you know 😮 . I understand exactly what you mean but you can't give him a win on wishful thinking not on here that just isn't fair it's like saying Barry Allen can do whatever anybody connected to the speed force can do because he's the avatar of the speedforce like giving him Wally's speed stealing ability. Like i said unless you can prove he is capable of such things on panel you can't give him a majority solely based on your speculation.
Fair Enough man. I do get what your saying..I guess its just a different take on things. By the way, I wasn't giving him the win based on said tactic. I just personally think its an option but don't feel we would even have to do that. Just my opinion
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Show me at any point where I said Prime was weak? I never said Prime was weak and actually called him Monarch's best opponent. I like Prime as a character and never once said nor claimed he was weak. What I did dispute and prove was that Monarch certainly did nothing "easier" than Tyrant did. You can never do something easier when you get KILLED in a one v one encounter. DP Tyrant has no such showings and never lost one not one vs. battle he fought. So, again.. I disputed your claim that Monarch fought tougher people and did so easier. That has been proven false. It was actually Tyrant who fought tougher people and never once lost. Need I remind you... Galactus would probably one shot the "team" that Monarch wrecked. When you add up who they fought.. Tyrant clearly fought the tougher opposition and did so with relative ease.For the record and the scans are available. Galactus WAS NOT weak and actually fed on a planet that had him say he hadn't felt this good in very long time. He knew the battle was coming i.e. where the prep came in. So, Tyrant had on the ropes a Well-Fed and Prepped Galactus.
Red sun actually did work and yes not as well as with regular superman but it did contain him for awhile. Also remember who else survived that universal destroying blast via shields? Prime wasn't the only one. Regardless, this isn't Prime vs. DP Tyrant. This is Tyrant vs. Monarch. Your reasoning that Monarch had tough opposition and did so easier was false as I've shown It was Tyrant who faced the tougher competition and did so with ease.
Regardless, you still view Prime with the GA inferior to Thanos. That's what I don't get. I am going to need those scans.
Red Sun works to a point. Prime has gone though a red star and landed on a planet. Without injury. If you don't call that resistance I don't know what to say.
Also, this will turn into a Prime vs Tyrant because you view Prime weaker then anyone Tyrant fought. That's false! Well, that's my opinion
Originally posted by xJLxKing
My fault, I though you said he was weak.Regardless, you still view Prime with the GA inferior to Thanos. That's what I don't get. I am going to need those scans.
Red Sun works to a point. Prime has gone though a red star and landed on a planet. Without injury. If you don't call that resistance I don't know what to say.
Also, this will turn into a Prime vs Tyrant because you view Prime weaker then anyone Tyrant fought. That's false! Well, that's my opinion
So, you view GA Prime as stronger than Galactus? I certainly don't and thus yes Tyrant certainly faced tougher competition. I think GA Prime is a little above Thanos. I feel Thanos would give him a great fight but in the end GA Prime would probably be too much. However, reg. prime I feel is peers with Thanos and it could go either way. So, I'm not getting where your saying I feel Thanos is above GA Prime. What I do feel is that Galactus is above ANYONE Monarch faced. I feel tha Thanos is just as powerful or close to it, as the toughest person Monarch fought (Prime). Then you have SS, Glads, BRB, Morg, Terrax who I feel are above CA's, WW, GL Fodder etc etc. Point is JL... Monarch certainly didn't fight tougher competition and beyond a shadow of a doubt did nothing easier when he actually got KILLED.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Show me at any point where I said Prime was weak? I never said Prime was weak and actually called him Monarch's best opponent. I like Prime as a character and never once said nor claimed he was weak. What I did dispute and prove was that Monarch certainly did nothing "easier" than Tyrant did. You can never do something easier when you get KILLED in a one v one encounter. DP Tyrant has no such showings and never lost one not one vs. battle he fought. So, again.. I disputed your claim that Monarch fought tougher people and did so easier. That has been proven false. It was actually Tyrant who fought tougher people and never once lost. Need I remind you... Galactus would probably one shot the "team" that Monarch wrecked. When you add up who they fought.. Tyrant clearly fought the tougher opposition and did so with relative ease.For the record and the scans are available. Galactus WAS NOT weak and actually fed on a planet that had him say he hadn't felt this good in very long time. He knew the battle was coming i.e. where the prep came in. So, Tyrant had on the ropes a Well-Fed and Prepped Galactus.
Red sun actually did work and yes not as well as with regular superman but it did contain him for awhile. Also remember who else survived that universal destroying blast via shields? Prime wasn't the only one. Regardless, this isn't Prime vs. DP Tyrant. This is Tyrant vs. Monarch. Your reasoning that Monarch had tough opposition and did so easier was false as I've shown It was Tyrant who faced the tougher competition and did so with ease.
Like I said, I want to see those scans of Galactus being well fed. Also, you admitted that Galactus' blast were powering Tyrant up. That's a huge advantage. Nevertheless, Prime is completely different. He is mostly physical and doesn't have attacks that Tyrant can be powered up.
Just because a man with Kryptonite killed Superman doesn't mean he'll be able to kill Superman's foe who don't share the save advantages or disadvantage.
Regardless, Prime has proven he is faster, stronger(with punches), and more durable then anyone Tyrant fought. They might be close but they aren't the same. So it's perfectly acceptable for someone like Monarch to lose against Prime. After all, he is physically strong enough to rip the armor apart. Top it off, with the fact that Monarch underestimated, and taunted Prime all fight.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosiyou and i have been over this before… monarch was jobbing throughout most of his battle with superboy prime - he certainly was not fighting to his max [you even agreed with that much, iirc.] having said that, i haven't the slightest clue why you're trying to bring up that fight as any sort of evidence now? it's like i said before, in the PIS free environment of KMC, monarch isn't going to be jobbing to tyrant - he's going to be fighting to his best [ie. "arena".]
Yes, Monarch owned the CA's and fodder Laterns with ease.. Yet my friend, when he faced his toughest foe.. SBP he lost. So, I don't get all this talk about how easy things were. IMO SBP and Thanos are a very good match. Difference is.... Thanos got messed up and fled before Tyrant killed him. Words from his own mouth and that is saying a lot coming from Thanos. Monarch faced Prime... and lost. Granted its SBP and thus he has the supermanesque aura. Regardless, though it certainly wasn't AS easy as Tyrant beat... SS, Morg, Terrax, BRB, Glads, JOH, Thanos and Galactus.
unless we are talking about the brute physical strength monarch wields, then his fight with superboy prime isn't really applicable here, imo.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosigalactus had already battled tyrant once before. that said, do you honestly think he would knowingly battle any being who posed as much of a threat as tyrant, at less than full power? c'mon, galactus is many things, but he isn't stupid.
Next, it wasn't just the fact that Tyrant could feed on those energies that made Galactus concerned. Lets remember... Galactus was shocked when Tyrant pulled that little trick where Galactus own blasts were making him stronger. So, its safe to say he had no idea Tyrant could or would do such a thing. To build on that... Galactus backed down from the first encounter and let him take Morg because he feared how much collateral damage would take place had he fought. He prepped and Fed for a battle that he knew was tough. Surfer's own words... I must go there as quickly as possible BEFORE THEY BOTH DESTROY EACHOTHER. Surfer had no idea Tyrant could do this and yet seems very clear how much of a threat Tyrant posed. So, to say that is the reason why he was able to do good and the only reason is selling Tyrant short. Galactus feared Tyrant and prepped and fed because he knew he was a worth adversary, not because he knew Tyrant could absorb his blasts and make him stronger.
i mean, could tyrant have beaten a malnourished galactus? sure [lesser forces have.] but to assume tyrant could have beaten galactus without first absorbing 'BSE' is giving him too much credit, and not looking at what actually transpired on panel imo.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosithe UN blast tyrant survived apparently only targeted his extremities [which was/were completely destroyed.] either way, it was quite obvious through both depictions and dialogue, that said blast was certainly not a 'true' UN blast [as i said before.] and like I also said before, we've seen what a 'true' UN blast is capable of, and we saw that a 'true' UN blast can, and did, erase tyrant.
Lastly, your missing one key factor.. First, while you say it wasn't a "true" UN blast.. that is fine.. Yet we don't know and can't calculate how powerful it was. Second, we know that the UN is capable of destroying and has destroyed the Multiverse. Monarch explosion.. is only universal. Maybe you can see where I'm going... It is possible that even a "not perfect" UN blast could still be equivalent or greater than a universal destroying blast. Afterall, we know one is exponentially greater than the other. So, IMO it is certainly possible he could survive the blast.
assuming tyrant would survive a universe-busting attack, secondary to a breach in monarch's armor is simply giving him way too much credit.
all imo, of course. 🙂
Originally posted by Galan007
you and i have been over this before… monarch was jobbing throughout most of his battle with superboy prime - he certainly was not fighting to his max [you even agreed with that much, iirc.] having said that, i haven't the slightest clue why you're trying to bring up that fight as any sort of evidence now? it's like i said before, in the PIS free environment of KMC, monarch isn't going to be jobbing to tyrant - he's going to be fighting to his best [ie. "arena".]unless we are talking about the brute physical strength monarch wields, then his fight with superboy prime isn't really applicable here, imo.
galactus had already battled tyrant once before. that said, do you honestly think he would knowingly battle any being who posed as much of a threat as tyrant, at less than full power? c'mon, galactus is many things, but he isn't stupid.
i mean, could tyrant have beaten a malnourished galactus? sure [lesser forces have.] but to assume tyrant could have beaten galactus without first absorbing 'BSE' is giving him too much credit, and not looking at what actually transpired on panel imo.
the UN blast tyrant survived apparently only targeted his extremities [which was/were completely destroyed.] either way, it was quite obvious through both depictions and dialogue, that said blast was certainly not a 'true' UN blast [as i said before.] and like I also said before, we've seen what a 'true' UN blast is capable of, and we saw that a 'true' UN blast can, and did, erase tyrant.
assuming tyrant would survive a universe-busting attack, secondary to a breach in monarch's armor is simply giving him way too much credit.
all imo, of course. 🙂
Well I did agree that Monarch was jobbing some. The reason why I brought it up was because you and others were saying Monarch beat tougher competition and easier. What I'm pointing out that... when you lose a one v. one battle against your toughest foe.. that can hardly constitute doing anything easier. He got killed. Whatever the reason.. it certainly wasn't an easy fight and certainly not easier than how Tyrant did in battle.
That is the easy part.. Now the competition part... When we look at all the people they fought and how they stack up. I take Galactus, Thanos, SS, BRB, Morg, Terrax, Glads as a team and individually over any person Monarch fought sans prime. However, Galactus and Thanos have Prime more than covered imo. Galactus alone could one shot a vast majority of the team sans Prime. So, again my friend I brought that up because that was your reasoning for giving Monarch the win.. because he faced tougher people and did so easier.. Imo that isn't true.
Well Galactus has viewed many people as inferior and not feed to battle them. When he fought Agamatto, Mephisto, In-Betweener etc He acts very arrogant and doesn't feed often. He never fed to battle Mephisto, Agamatto to name two. He usually comes across as very arrogant and thinks nobody is a real threat to him, not the other way around.
My point here is this... You were saying the only reason Tyrant did well was because Galactus own blasts were powering him up. Yes I agree that is a reason he did well. However, what I'm saying is that also isn't looking at what transpired on panel. Galactus didn't know Tyrant could do that.. Yet he still prepped and feed before the battle. He still commented that he didn't want to fight Tyrant because nothing would be left after. Surfer still commented that he need to go there before they both killed each other. Neither knew Tyrant could do that and yet going by on panel words and actions still viewed him as a big threat was my point.
I agree it wasn't a true UN blast. However, my point here is that one is multiversal and the other is Universal. One is exponentially greater than the other. So, to say just because he couldn't survive a multiversal blast means he couldn't survive a far lesser one? That certainly can't be said for certain. It's clear that his durability is quite good... Nothing anybody did had any effect on Tyrant sans Galactus really. Taking all those blasts from peak heralds and Trans level people and having no affect on him shows his durability. Even taking a lesser UN blast and still being there says something. It said nothing of attacking only his extremities. It just wasn't done right. Point is he still survived the first blast, which considering his durability must've been very strong none the less.
Anyways my friend as always this has been fun and informative. have a good one