Originally posted by TheLordofMurderThanos is a villian. Thanos has a lack of creativity in his powers from writers.
The fact that he is a villian (and thus is destined to lose), combined with a lack of creativity on the part of his writers, has seemingly doomed him to lifetime of low (subpar) showings...
Thanos wins easily 10/10
I have no doubt that Thanos has a huge power advantage on Loki, but a well written Loki wont go down easily to Thanos...
And I contend that a well written Loki is capable of beating Thanos (doesnt mean he absolutely will beat him though)...
Afterall, while he obviously didnt win, a well written Loki (during "The Surter Saga"😉 lasted longer against Surter than Thor did...
And that didnt happen because he's more powerful than Thor (because he obviously isnt); it happened because the writer used his powers of illusion in an effective manner...a manner that made Loki very difficult to hit...
Back to my point of Loki being capable of beating Thanos; if Loki fights Thanos the same way he fought Surter, I believe he will definitely give Thanos trouble...
Afterall, Loki's attacks hurt Surter and thus I gotta believe that he'll be hurting Thanos as well...and while Thanos can withstand tremendous damage, his damage soak isnt infinite...Loki's attacks will add up...
In the end, if Thanos cant come up with a solution to his illusions (and without prep, there is no logical solution for Thanos dealing with this aspect of Loki's power based on Thanos's known powerset), Thanos goes down; might take a while but it would be inevitable...
Or at the very least, Thanos would be forced to withdraw as he simply cant win...
And to everyone else's counter-argument that Thanos wins "10/10 because he's Thanos," I have yet to see one logical argument here for Thanos that allows him to effectively deal with Loki's illusions...
Not a single one...all you guys say is "Thanos wins...Loki has nothing for him...ect, ect."
Give me a compelling argument as to how he can deal with the illusions without prep or retract your stance on this fights outcome...
The only halfway reasonable solution to Loki's "Surter Assault" for Thanos is an omni-directional blast that someone suggested earlier in this thread...
The problem with this is that this AoE is short range from what I have seen of it and thus if Loki fights Thanos as he fought Surter, this AoE is useless as the illusions (and the real Loki) were flying around Surter at a distance blasting away at him...
So, this attack fails to deal with the illusions...
If someone can come up with a "compelling" solution for Thanos dealing with the illusions without prep, then I'll retract my stance that Loki is capable of beating Thanos...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurderThanos would just use his cosmic senses to find the real Loki, just likw he did when he indentified a Skrull in disguise amonst a hoard prisoners and Thanos' omni directional blast destroyed a large part of the Klyn, Loki can't avoid that type of blast.
The only halfway reasonable solution to Loki's "Surter Assault" for Thanos is an omni-directional blast that someone suggested earlier in this thread...The problem with this is that this AoE is short range from what I have seen of it and thus if Loki fights Thanos as he fought Surter, this AoE is useless as the illusions (and the real Loki) were flying around Surter at a distance blasting away at him...
So, this attack fails to deal with the illusions...
If someone can come up with a "compelling" solution for Thanos dealing with the illusions without prep, then I'll retract my stance that Loki is capable of beating Thanos...
Since Loki is a god who specializes in illusion, I am betting his illusions are far more convincing than a Skrull in disguise; I am betting (once again going back to my AD&D background) that his illusions have quasi-real aspects to them that make seperating them from the real Loki far more difficult than you might think...
Thanos hasnt done anything that greatly impressed me as pertains his cosmic senses...thus I am not convinced he could find the real Loki this way...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurderThanos has used his senses to attain that Galactus was well nourished and that the doppleganger was more powerful than him, and Loki quashi mystical power won't be a problem for Thanos has he has studied and uses mystic black arts as part of his power, that's why he was barred from Titan centuries ago, and again Loki can't avoid a omni blast, plus Loki has no other way of putting Thanos down
Since Loki is a god who specializes in illusion, I am betting his illusions are far more convincing than a Skrull in disguise; I am betting (once again going back to my AD&D background) that his illusions have quasi-real aspects to them that make seperating them from the real Loki far more difficult than you might think...Thanos hasnt done anything that greatly impressed me as pertains his cosmic senses...thus I am not convinced he could find the real Loki this way...
Loki's illusions were convincing enough to fool Surter; he couldnt see through Loki's illusionary Loki's (he had to destroy them all one at a time) and Loki's illusion of the Eternal Flame (once again) was convincing enough to fool Surter (thus the illusion had to be more than just an image; it had to [bare minimum] radiate heat, mystic power, and feel solid as well)...
And given Surters status and him being a purely mystic being, I gotta believe his innate senses are pretty sharp...and yet he still couldnt penetrate Loki's illusions...
As for the omni directional blast, he still has to target it somewhere...and given that the illusionary horde will be be blasting at him from a distance...the real Loki will still be very difficult to hit...
And one more thing...can Thanos negate magic?
Thor has demostrated this ability...as has Surter (as when he destroyed the illusions)...Thanos, on the other hand, never has...
So not only will he be faced with Loki's illusionary horde, but he wont be able to lessen their numbers (as Surter did) so Loki will constantly remain very very difficult for Thanos to hit in this fight...
Dude, I am willing to concede that its "possible" that Loki doesnt have enough firepower to put Thanos down...
The problem I have is that many here just automatically assume that because Thanos is a much more powerful character, that he washes his penis with Loki with ease...
I just dont think a well written Loki goes down as easily as many here think; unless you have a sure fire way of dealing with Loki's greatest strength (his illusions) it doesnt matter that a given character far above him...Loki is not an easy out in such a case...
As I have stated in an earlier post, how one character matches up with another is much more important than who is the overall more powerful character...
And Thanos doesnt really have an answer for the illusions of a well written Loki...
Originally posted by Nihilist
LOL this isn't CBR , Loki doesn't use his illusions that often in combat
Hence my assertion that Loki is typically, heavily, written down; he jobs like some of the Elders of the Universe (most which job so badly so frequently that it makes me question wether they should be in the trans tier sometime)...
Yes, in a comic book Thanos is going to own the living hell out of Loki because Loki will job like hell and will spontaneously (a la Thor) forget 95% of his powerset from the moment he lays eyes on Thanos...
Loki is a notorious coward who is fully aware that he isnt as physically capable as many of the elite characters in the Marvel universe (hell he isnt even as physically capable as some meta-human level characters; I'd put money on The Thing to KO Loki inside of 3 rounds in a pure hand to hand contest every single time)...yet he somehow always ends up face to face with someone who can clearly kick his ass...and this happens despite his ability to teleport virtually at will...lol.
Given his cowardly nature, you'd think he'd be written to make use of ranged attacks combined with powerful illusions whenever possible, but this is rarely the case...
But in some very rare cases, he is written appropiately (The Surter Saga being perhaps the best he's ever been written as pertains his powerset)...and on these once in a decade events, Loki is a very tough opponent to put down...its a shame that it happens so rarely.
ummmm no... Loki would own The Thing in a h2h affair based on speed and power.
Now to the rest of your post... It's not in character for loki to just start throwing around illusions from the jump. That is the first problem with your scenerio. Even still, lets say he does, why are you so convinced Thanos won't be able to detect the real Loki. His senses and intelligence are keen and I think he will be able to detect loki. Maybe not right away, but soon enough that he won't have to deal with all these illusions and never be able to find Loki. That is simply hogwash.
Furthermore, Loki doesn't have the firepower to put down Thanos at all. So this is just turning into how long Loki can last, not whether he can win or lose. On the contrary, Thanos certainly has enough to put Loki down and without going near all out. A few omni directional blasts, Cosmic Awareness, Teleportation and Loki honestly can only survive for a bit before being put down or running away. Most likely he would self Bfr himself.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0From what i remember Loki never used Illusions during his battles during Ragnarok(or at least not like he did against Surtur: ie multiple foes) and he never used illusions against Apocalypse.
FYI, Loki uses illusions in pretty much every single fight he;s ever been in.
And a omni directional blast such this would take care of any illusions.
Originally posted by NihilistTwo fights? You're citing to two fights? Loki didn't use Loki copies against Apocalypse but he literally approaches him under the guise of being human, i.e., an illusion. And he's used illusions against Thor in just about every fight he's ever had against him. He's used illusions in every fight he's had with the Avengers. He's used illusions against the Thor Corps. He's... whatever. Just trust me. Loki uses illusions in pretty much every fight he's ever been in.
From what i remember Loki never used Illusions during his battles during Ragnarok(or at least not like he did against Surtur: ie multiple foes) and he never used illusions against Apocalypse.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Oh, i believe you about illusions/disguises, but im talking about creating multiple illusions to attack with like he did against Surtur, and like i said before Thanos senses allowed him to spot a skrull disguised amonst a group of prisoners, so i reckon he will be able to sense the true Loki.
Two fights? You're citing to two fights? Loki didn't use Loki copies against Apocalypse but he literally approaches him under the guise of being human, i.e., an illusion. And he's used illusions against Thor in just about every fight he's ever had against him. He's used illusions in every fight he's had with the Avengers. He's used illusions against the Thor Corps. He's... whatever. Just trust me. Loki uses illusions in pretty much every fight he's ever been in.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Two fights? You're citing to two fights? Loki didn't use Loki copies against Apocalypse but he literally approaches him under the guise of being human, i.e., an illusion. And he's used illusions against Thor in just about every fight he's ever had against him. He's used illusions in every fight he's had with the Avengers. He's used illusions against the Thor Corps. He's... whatever. Just trust me. Loki uses illusions in pretty much every fight he's ever been in.
Do these illusions give him the win as what is name implies?
