Originally posted by Blinky
I pointed out The Dragons feat of beating bigger taller guys, you see that? That was in the movies. Bigger taller isn't a factor according to what the dragon showed IN THE MOVIES.
So size doesn't matter? Even Dragon has a finite amount of strength. So throwing around a heavier man. Will use more energy/effort. Would you suggest that in a match between say King Kong and Spider-Man. Kong being 3 times his size not be discussed or in a match between a SWAT team and an Army the number advantage on the side of the army not be mentioned.
I think what you need to realise is that it is not just what happened in a movie that is importent, but also how it happens.
Originally posted by Blinky
You're clearly being a clown with this one. I never implied The Dragon could have an advantage because he is a "small asian guy". YOU implied Gino had a weight, height advantage YOU have the burden of proof, you've proved nothing. Nice job.
I am not being a clown if your not. Gino beat up little asian martial artists, "you see that? That was in the movies." So by your amazing ABC logic. Which to date is all you've used as a cass for Dragon. Instead of displayed skills. That is all we need to say Gino wins. As for the Roberts Rules of debating Burden of Proof crap. This isn't debate class. You don't get to get away on technicalities. You actually have to make an argument.
So what is it? Why does Dragon win. Remember though according to you, you are not allowed to use any of Dragons skills ( Because to do so is discussing style ) nor are you allowed to use physics 'cuz l1ke diz is a movie man or some such crap. Nor are you allowed to use your so far vaguely attempted ABC logic of opponents beat.
Wait, never mind I know why you think he wins. Because you like him better and once you have eliminated all objective measures from science to track record all you are left with is you subjective opinion.
The problem of course is the question at hand is not whom do you like better. If it was I'd be voting Dragon. Rather the question is whom would win in a fight and so far you have brought no argument to the table for the fighter you back. Save for some weak ABC logic that you yourself mock the use of in the reverse.
Originally posted by Blinky
Look you brought up style. Why now? I am not talking about you bringing up skills, I'm talking about you bringing up their styles. Why did you bring up style then if you think it has no bearing in the fight?
First off their style's are part of their skill set. So if we take into account theirs skills. We are taking into account their styles. To not consider styles at all in a fight situation is both silly and rather hard to do. If you are remotely interested in an objective answer.
Styles do have a bearing on the fight. After all it effects the way they fight.
Let me make this clear however, before I continue. What I said was that I would not get into a discussion about which arts is better. Because I believe it is the fighter, not the art that matters.
That said an Aikido artist is more likely to use throws. Instead of blows. A boxer is not likely to grapple etc. So styles do effect the fight end of story to say they don't is to well ignore every fight in history
Originally posted by Blinky
Yeah they do. O'hara is shown in enter the Dragon taking blows from 2X4's and breaking a pile of flaming bricks. Colt kicked a japanese karate master's ass, EFFORTLESSLY. Let's see... what did the dime-store thugs do OH YEAH! They got their asses kicked, that's it. I'm the only one talking feats here, I dunno WTF you're doing
Gino was clocking guys with poll stick and balls and they were getting back up. Bricks don't hit back. Lots of guys that pull the breaking boards stuff suck in actual fights. It's a different skill set.
So here we address the problem with the my fighter wins cause of the folk he beat up argument, and the afore mentioned hype. What feats does the Japenese Karate master have. No more then the so called dime-store thugs. I imagine.
It also importent to note that said thugs likely have more actually combat experience as they both do it for a living and live with it everyday. Remember that most traditional art forms such as Karate and the like do not train full contact or have full contact tournaments or sparing. Nor do they normally train against other styles. So their is good chance that the Karate master in question was both not used to taking full power shots and that he had no experience fighting some one not using karate.
Originally posted by Blinky
I'll grant you he fought one martial artist, the stick guy. The boxer was an old-washed up fart.
It was strongley indicated that he was a fairly succesfull boxer. His age or how recently he had fought/trained was not mentioned and the bar patrons had a whole lot of confidence in him and it was a rough crowd.
Lets compare him to a karate master of the time period in question. One is used to getting hit and hard. Normal boxer hits much harder then other martial artist. Its kind of their bread and butter after all. They are used to getting hit a lot and going for a long time. The Karate master will be used to short scripted or possibley partial free style, limited contact sparing. Where everybody fights the same way. Which is true for the boxer as well in so much as actual bouts, but the bruising that goes on in his bar will be all out anything goes fighting.
Originally posted by Blinky
You see if you bring that up, you force me to bring up The Dragons weapon based combat skills. His skills with fighting sticks in enter the dragon, his fight with an armed Shaolin Kung-Fu expert (Han). Not to mention his extreme accuracy, reflexes and speed shown when throwning wooden darts (when taking down 3 or 4 guys with guns). If you go down that road, Gino still gets the short end of the stick. See what a mess this'll make?
This is funny. First you say it doesn't matter then. When you realise it does. You try and back track and claim you guy is better at it anyway.
For the record though. Gino displayed far faster stick fighting and matched Dragon in terms of weapons skill. The guy cleared a bar with a poll ball in a rag after all.
As for Han wasn't he old, one handed, and didn't fight very often. In your words a washed up old fart. I could be wrong though its been a while sence I watched the movie.