Originally posted by Trackz
...if wolverine can outmaneuver thor, superman will be running circles around himofcourse that fight was PIS, unless thor has faster fighting feats.
Superman and Wolverine fight completely different with there speed. Again, wolverine uses speed, dodging, agility, and martial arts all at once, its completely different.
A prime example of this is when Batman had Superman powers and was fighting Nightwing. Of course batman was faster but the way he was using his speed almost made it impossible to hit someone like nightwing who was using his speed in a different way.
Originally posted by carver9
Superman and Wolverine fight completely different with there speed. Again, wolverine uses speed, dodging, agility, and martial arts all at once, its completely different.A prime example of this is when Batman had Superman powers and was fighting Nightwing. Of course batman was faster but the way he was using his speed almost made it impossible to hit someone like nightwing who was using his speed in a different way.
how does that make a difference? even if you wanted to use the wolverine fight as being canon, superman is thousands of times faster than wolverine in both reflexes and travel speed.
Originally posted by -Pr-
how does that make a difference? even if you wanted to use the wolverine fight as being canon, superman is thousands of times faster than wolverine in both reflexes and travel speed.
I never said he wasnt but again wolverine use his speed different than thor or supes.
This has been shown when wolverine blitzed quicksilver who is also thousands of time faster than him. This was shown again when he blitzed Speed demon who is also thousands of times faster than him. Lets not even use his fight against Sentry or him putting a hole in surfer. Wolverine and Spiderman use there speed in ways to get around almost any opponent.
I agree, Supes is faster but him being so use to just taking punches whereas Wolverine and Spiderman using there speed to dodge plus attack during combat makes it almost next to impossible to hit them.
Originally posted by carver9..you make no sense
I never said he wasnt but again wolverine use his speed different than thor or supes.This has been shown when wolverine blitzed quicksilver who is also thousands of time faster than him. This was shown again when he blitzed Speed demon who is also thousands of times faster than him. Lets not even use his fight against Sentry or him putting a hole in surfer. Wolverine and Spiderman use there speed in ways to get around almost any opponent.
I agree, Supes is faster but him being so use to just taking punches whereas Wolverine and Spiderman using there speed to dodge plus attack during combat makes it almost next to impossible to hit them.
how does that make a difference? even if you wanted to use the wolverine fight as being canon, superman is thousands of times faster than wolverine in both reflexes and travel speed.
it's not canon?
Originally posted by carver9
I never said he wasnt but again wolverine use his speed different than thor or supes.This has been shown when wolverine blitzed quicksilver who is also thousands of time faster than him. This was shown again when he blitzed Speed demon who is also thousands of times faster than him. Lets not even use his fight against Sentry or him putting a hole in surfer. Wolverine and Spiderman use there speed in ways to get around almost any opponent.
I agree, Supes is faster but him being so use to just taking punches whereas Wolverine and Spiderman using there speed to dodge plus attack during combat makes it almost next to impossible to hit them.
using his speed "differently" still shouldnt make him as fast as thor or superman. that comic was bullshit.
superman and thor should have NO problem hitting them. at all.
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, I'll make it simple, the people that tags Superman, I can see them Struggling to get a solid lick off of Wolverine or Spiderman.Is that better?
the difference is, superman LETS most of those people hit him.
Originally posted by -Pr-
using his speed "differently" still shouldnt make him as fast as thor or superman. that comic was bullshit.superman and thor should have NO problem hitting them. at all.
the difference is, superman LETS most of those people hit him.
So superman let people that is just as physically as strong as he is hit him?
So he purposely let despero ko him (someone that I can see wolverine and spiderman circling around with ease)? 😕
Originally posted by carver9
So superman let people that is just as physically as strong as he is hit him?So he purposely let despero ko him (someone that I can see wolverine and spiderman circling around with ease)? 😕
like who?
when did despero ko him? during virtue and vice? that despero was stronger than superman. he was at a level that we haven't him at before or since then.
Originally posted by carver9
Like I said before, Superman is faster, along with quicksilver and Speed demon but Wolverine and Spiderman use there speed in a totally different way that makes it almost next to impossible to tag them. Speed/Agility/Dodge/then attack.
You think Wolverine could dodge Superman if he wanted to hit him?
Originally posted by -Pr-
like who?when did despero ko him? during virtue and vice? that despero was stronger than superman. he was at a level that we haven't him at before or since then.
Kalibak, Metallo, Darkseid, Despero, Konvikt, The General, Shaggy Man, the list goes on. Hell, 90% of Superman rogue is bricks.
I can see virtue and vice Despero struggling to hit spiderman or Wolverine and I know Despero was strong, I'm not talking about his strength, I'm talking about Superman getting hit by him without Despero even straining to do it.
Originally posted by carver9
Kalibak, Metallo, Darkseid, Despero, Konvikt, The General, Shaggy Man, the list goes on. Hell, 90% of Superman rogue is bricks.I can see virtue and vice Despero struggling to hit spiderman or Wolverine and I know Despero was strong, I'm not talking about his strength, I'm talking about Superman getting hit by him without Despero even straining to do it.
Darkseid has comparable reflexes to Superman.
Kalibak is not nearly as fast as Superman, and it's been shown on panel too.
Metallo has the added bonus of kryptonite dulling Superman's powers, but he's nowhere near Superman's level of strength.
Konvikt was allowed to hit Superman. Once Superman actually fought, things turned around very nicely.
The General/Shaggy Man is invincible, but his strength isn't quite what it was in pre crisis. He's not on Superman's level strength wise. Strong enough to knock him down, sure, but bar that? Not really.
like who? Toyman? No. Parasite? No. Prankster? No. Luthor? No. Darkseid? No. Reactron? No. Kryptonite Man? No. Metallo? No.
That Despero was taking down people left and right. His speed was never confirmed, so you can't simply assume he was slow. He was also able to tag people like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel, and they're not exactly slow.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Darkseid has comparable reflexes to Superman.
Kalibak is not nearly as fast as Superman, and it's been shown on panel too.
Metallo has the added bonus of kryptonite dulling Superman's powers, but he's nowhere near Superman's level of strength.
Konvikt was allowed to hit Superman. Once Superman actually fought, things turned around very nicely.
The General/Shaggy Man is invincible, but his strength isn't quite what it was in pre crisis. He's not on Superman's level strength wise. Strong enough to knock him down, sure, but bar that? Not really.like who? Toyman? No. Parasite? No. Prankster? No. Luthor? No. Darkseid? No. Reactron? No. Kryptonite Man? No. Metallo? No.
That Despero was taking down people left and right. His speed was never confirmed, so you can't simply assume he was slow. He was also able to tag people like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel, and they're not exactly slow.
I will always disagree with darkseid having comparable speed with superman.
Kalibak, I think hes on Supes level of strength but again, this is something that we'll never agree with.
I agree, things did turn around with the konvikt fight but wonderwoman was there aiding Superman in that fight.
What was the point at naming all of those people? You know that Superman entire rogue is bricks, thats why sometimes I consider him a brick himself even though he does have speed.
I agree, Despero was taking down plent of people but everyone that he took down dont use there speed or reflexes no where near as close as Spiderman and Wolverine. Yes, they are faster but wolverine and spiderman have constant showings of using there speed during combat whereas we basically have to guess on people that you named part. Now if you can show me some proof of Captain Marvel and Wonder woman using any type of speed while fighting Despero then I would agree with you.
Everytime you see wolverine fighting someone they tend to comment on how fast he is, its pretty much KNOWN that he's blitzing throughout the entire fight.
Example:
Dodge, Speed, Attack
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/WhatIf-BackinBlack013.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/WhatIf-BackinBlack014.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/WhatIf-BackinBlack015.jpg
and lets not forget, Ironman is much faster and he has flown from the sun to earth in two panels, something you would say as being a light speed feat and spiderman was still blitzing him.
Lets not even bring up the people that wolverine blitz starting with Sentry, Hyperion, Silver Surfer, Thor, hitting hulk 6 times before he reacted, speed blitzing speed demon, someone that has been said to run up to 1500 mps. Speed blitzing quicksilver, etc....
Originally posted by carver9This is interesting because it brings up Speed in relation to Agility.
Like I said before, Superman is faster, along with quicksilver and Speed demon but Wolverine and Spiderman use there speed in a totally different way that makes it almost next to impossible to tag them. Speed/Agility/Dodge/then attack.
Agility is a complex athletic ability, involving balance, coordination and reflexes. Speed is certainly a major component, perhaps the main one.
In this regard, I've often asked: who is more agile? Spider-Man or Superman? Certainly Superman is much, much faster. But is he -- can he be -- much more agile? I seem to remember a scan with Superman doing something acrobatic, so it's not like he doesn't have moves.
Put another way: if Superman slowed himself down to Spider-Man speed, I would give the edge in agility to Spider-Man, if for no other reason then he's more practiced at it. But if Superman turns his speed dial up to 11 and then dodges acrobatically...who is "more agile"? Yes, Superman is typically not a dodger (because he usually doesn't have to be), but does that mean he can't?
take this example, bruce lee and anyone else can be as agile as they wont, that won't help them dodge a bullet (i'm talking an actual bullet, not aim-dodging)
wolverine can be as agile as he wants, but when you're dealing with someone who moves light speed, that just doesn't matter, cause he's covering the ground and pummeling him before his brain has time to send nerve impulses to his body.
Originally posted by The Nuul
Wait, is Cav saying Supes cannot tag Wolverine or Spider-Man?😆
Both Thor and Superman have speed, agility, and reflexes that are beyond anything a human can comprehend. While Wolverine, and characters his level are a notch above normal human. Their speed, reflexes, and agility can escape a car that is moving at them at 186000 per sec, even if they start from across the world.
