Star Wars vs Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and Battlestar Galactica

Started by Robtard47 pages
Robtard Senor Member

No, you just debate poorly, mainly because you know little to nothing of ST.

Do tell which SW races has an "entire history shown"?

You actually haven't, you just throw things out like "galaxy gun!" and "sun crusher!", like any one trick pony weapon is going to defeat ST or SW.

Even without this "entire history" shit, The Borg, Spieces 8472 and the Jem Hadar could stomp SW. As it's not about "millions of years of time", it's about overall power and superior technology.

Dr Will Hatch Senior Member

SW has Thrawn and Palpatine on its side, two utterly brilliant schemers. In matters of all out war, consider me on the side of the Empire.

Hell, with Pallaeon, Ackbar and EU Luke Skywalker, consider me on the Rebels as well.

I just hope Q stays neutral.

Hewhoknowsall Restricted

Originally posted by Robtard
No, you just debate poorly, mainly because you know little to nothing of ST.

Do tell which SW races has an "entire history shown"?

You actually haven't, you just throw things out like "galaxy gun!" and "sun crusher!", like any one trick pony weapon is going to defeat ST or SW.

Even without this "entire history" shit, The Borg, Spieces 8472 and the Jem Hadar could stomp SW. As it's not about "millions of years of time", it's about overall power and superior technology.

...still ignoring my argument (and your superior tech claim is unsupported)...

Robtard Senor Member
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
...still ignoring my argument (and your superior tech claim is unsupported)...

If you're referring to your 'the Enterprise D fires at this much power, while the Acclamator attack-ship has shields at this much power', it's been answered and countered over and over, you simply insist on ignoring it. You also have yet to counter 99% of Jaden's points, so you asking others to counter yours is dishonest, though it's been done, as stated.

Superior tech in ST has been shown repeatedly, Jaden has listed and explained them to your over and over and over, again, you refuse to read/listen.

Another thing ST has over SW, time-travel, which has been shown many a time. So if we're bringing everything in, then ST gets everything from the future (see Temporal Wars in ST Enterprise), which is exponentially more power than anything shown thus far.

doan_m Senior Member

So a clone's rifle is the same as Han's blaster now? How do you explain Leia taking a direct hit and receiving nothing but a graze on her arm?

By citing these examples I’ve show how general blasters are extremely capable I’ve just effectively demonstrated several instances of blaster firepower being far above that of the firepower of the one that hit Leia. Which is really the whole point. Establishing what blasters are generally capable of instead of nitpicking on a single instance where it doesn’t demonstrate that firepower.
And as for the scene with Leia being shot in the arm, it wasn’t a direct hit to the shoulders. If you watch the scene you’ll notice that when the bolt struck, sparks were flying everywhere and Leia didn’t react until a few frames later. You should also take notice that the Storm Troopers in question were attempting to capture Han and Leia as opposed to outright killing them.

A low power federation phaser (the small hand units as opposed to the larger, more powerful rifle) can blast through 10 feet of solid rock...Bit more impressive than a few inches of metal
Which is to say nothing about the time frame that the weapon was firing, which would after all, make a huge difference in firepower.
I take it you're referring to the incident with species 8472? Bit of an odd argument given that the ship that was destroyed had already taken massive damage in an attack from a species 8472 bioship and was left without shields or propulsion.
Not at all. It was in reference to the two borg ships being blown up while attempting to escape from the debris of the planet that 8472 had blown up. In the instance before that you also see the Borg ship that had Voyager in tow to have taken damage from the flying debris as well.

Do SW employ projectile based hand held weaponry?

Imperial Heavy Repeaters, for the Galactic Empire. There are also good various number of other physical projectile weapons such as the adjudicator and the wookie slug thrower.
Is it known that the Borg suffer losses from most weapons before analysing and adapting is it therefor reasonable to assume that had Picard tried that trick again, the Borg would have adapted

They were in a war with Species 8472 for months and had not even adapted a means of adapting a way to counter their melee attacks. Most of the time, physical attacks work very well against the Borg in most encounters. Especially when considering that Worf managed to successfully knife one in First Contact.

I wouldn't be taking the ST manual as an infallible source of information. It states that Breen hand held weapons have only kill settings but several times in DS9, people take direct hits from them and survive.

A kill setting does not necessarily guarantee actually killing the person to begin with. Modern day guns are built with the capacity to kill people, yet there is still are many occasions where such things are survivable.

I've cited tons of examples of ST weapons that you've had no counter argument against. Start showing me what SW would do to counter those weapons and perhaps you'll be onto a more plausible argument.

I’ve already brought up Turbolasers, industrial capacity, blaster capabilities etc in a few previous post already. Most of those examples from SW, generally speaking are already a sufficient counter what Star Trek would normally deploy.

I've already PROVEN that the Borg can adapt to weapons by frequency regardless of power.

You haven’t. You have not demonstrated any instance where the Borg actually adapts to a situation where the victims they are attempting to assimilate has vastly superior firepower to their own.

Have you shown how SW would prevent being hit by phased weapons?

Seeing how the issue has never even been brought up, that would be a moot point.
Have you countered the fact that weakest federation torpedo (the photon) is more powerful than the most powerful nuclear weapon ever.

Which is not particularly helpful in Star Treks case when Star Wars has magnitudes of firepower even greater than the Tsar Bomba.
Certainly. In Q-who (next generation) the Borg used transporters that passed straight through the shields of the enterprise.

An advantage that was never seen in “Best of Both Worlds” and would never pop up after. How about some more recent instances?
In DS9 episode "the Jem'Hadar" the Dominion had transporters that passed straight through shielding.

Bit of a silly argument, most of them eh?

It was a counter to your belief that the website in question didn’t take into account anything outside of the Federation.

Regardless...What actually is the argument he's trying to make on that point anyway?

It’s the search results of a database for the Borg in the Star Trek DB.
He then argues that the Borg can't adapt to any weapon despite the fact that they clearly assimilated Hirogen, Klingon and many other species (clearly indicating that they've easily adapted to their weapons in order to assimilate them). Not to mention the fact that it's mentioned countless time that they can adapt to any weapon.

Adaption is not a no-limits fallacy and it certainly does have its limits as to what extent it can adapt. Hell First Contact demonstrates this as we see a Borg Cube getting destroyed under the stress of a sustained barrage from the Federation ships.

doan_m Senior Member

The point about the tractor beam? So what if it can only be used at short range. The whole point of it's use isn't as a weapon but as a means to stop and allow for the assimilation of ships. Not to destroy them (Pretty self explanatory why it wouldn't be used IN A BATTLE then isn't it)
Its an analysis. He’s basically establishing the scope and range of the tractor beam. Again, this was just a database search to prove that the stardestroyer.net site also does cover Star Trek canon.

Makes my point stand even more doesn't it?

Hardly. It establishes the fact that Han Solo didn’t know what the hell he was talking about by the time that he had actually seen Alderaan in ruins. Especially considering that the Empire is fully well capable of destroying planets.
I'd say someone who makes his living smuggling things across the galaxy and avoiding the empire would know them well enough.

And why would fleet numbers be of any concern to a smuggler?

Let’s go back to the quote "The entire star fleet couldn't destroy the whole planet"...Yet 9 small species 8472 bioships could. And there's an entire universe of them to put into the fight.
This doesn’t disprove that he’s still demonstrably wrong about the capabilities of the Empire. And even if there are that many bioships out there, they will still turn tail and retreat in the face of superior firepower.

They were made before the clone wars and were lost in hyperspace on their 1st voyage. So how it could have been outfitted? Oh and my mistake. It wasn't 500 ships...It was 200.

When Thrawn recovered them.
There's no mention of the mechanism that species 8472 employ in their weapons so making baseless assumptions is silly.

Yes and that makes them infallible….. riiiggghhtt….. Well we know a few things for certain. Individual bioships with a glancing hit were only barely able to penetrate the shields of the voyager and that it is only capable of blowing chunks out of borg cubes, meaning that formations would be the only means of being able to sustain such firepower capacity. Something that could be solved in very short order with Turbolaser blast.
You have zero proof of this.

Vindicators, Acclamators, Gladiators, Interdictors classes are just a few ship classes within the Imperial fleet, and this isn’t even bringing up the different kind of frigate classes either.

We've seen an imperial star destroyer being incapable of destroying the millenium falcon, which is effectively a piece of junk.

You missed the part where Darth Vader gave the crew express orders to capture the ship.
We've seen areas of ships take direct impacts from turbolasers which have only caused minor explosions in hanger decks etc.
And we’ve also seen instances of turbolasers vaporizing large asteroids and being able to slag worlds to the point where its uninhabited. If anything a turbolaser is not a one size fit all as it comes in many different categories. The ones that I refer to however are the heavy ones, that are usually mounted on starships.

We've also seen a fully armed SD take an impact from a small asteroid that has sheered of
The Bridge specifically. And that was while it was being constantly bombarded by debris to the point where its shields would end up really stressed. As per “The Empire Strikes Back” novelization this was described as a “steady rain” of asteroids, each one described as a multi-megaton compression bomb whenever it actually hit the ship. Obviously the ships shields were put under a severe strain of constant bombardment before finally having caved.
[QUOTE]The 1st death star was already well into construction when Luke and Leia were born but wasn't operational until they were fully grown up. Your time lines are WAY OFF.
Perhaps for the 1st death star I’ll concede that. But definitely not the case for the second death star. A monster they built in secret with the materials spend being worth damn near millions of ISDs. A testament to their monstrous industry really.
Evidently nowhere near as quickly as the Dominion. Which was my point.

And my point is that the number of actual tanks that are used by the Dominion will have a whole lot to do with how many clones they would be able to produce. With Star Wars on the other hand, they have a sufficient number of cloning tanks (entire planet dedicated to it after all) to produce an actual sizable army.
No...seeing as i've already shown a minor phaser shot is far more powerful than SW rifles.
Without even giving a time frame as to how long it took, and what kind of rocks it were.
I've not even mentioned the transporter rifle which fires a projectile and then transports it to either inside an enemy target or just outside ready for impact...in other words, unstoppable. And this is just the federation weapons.

Which has actually been mass produced for Starfleet? The TR-116 rifle with the micro-transporter modification was asserted by O’Brien to not have been part of the basic design of the rifle.
Biological cloaks? Don't think they've even sniffed that kind of technology before.

Said biological cloak was also detected with the right “flashlight” that was using a specific spectrum wavelength. Something that Clone Trooper Helmets can do easily enough.
You were the one who said "i won't go into specifics". In regards to countering my points, you still haven't done so...Please do.

And why wouldn’t any of this constitute specifics? With that logic then I really ought to dismiss what you say since its non-specific like you claim my arguments to be. You also omitted the part where I said “unless asked” which set up my intent to back up claims if specifically asked.
Also read the thread. You'll like it.

Burden of proof. If you are going to assert that thread, then you will bring in the relevant quotes that you feel is of interest directly in here.
The federation, the Borg and the Voth all have transwarp drive, The Borg also have the transwarp hubs. Transwarp isn't a specific technology but merely a piece of terminology to indicate in advance beyond warp technology. The entire Borg fleet utilises it. Only a small number of Federation ships had utilised it (including one that reached infinite velocity). Unsure about the Voth though.

Said transwarp is not demonstrably faster than Hyperdrives. Especially that belonging to the Borg where they still demonstrate taking weeks to months to cross the galaxy. Unlike in Star Wars where normal travel times takes days to cross the galaxy with normal technology across most civililzations.

You do realise BDZ is the bombardment of a planet and can take an entire fleet days to do it? In many cases people have escaped planets under BDZ bombardment. Can you see them doing the same to an attack by species 8472?

By a weapon that SW can manufacture?

They don’t need to. Turbolasers already provide firepower superior to the weapon that Voyager was using.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? Shields don't work on weapons that phase out of space/time because the weapons don't exist on the same plane of existence as the shields until they rematerialse at their target. It's not difficult to grasp.

And of course said, phased weapon is likely dependent on being able to penetrate the frequency based shields that are usually built into trek ships. Unlike Trek ships, Star Wars doesn’t have any frequency built into any of their shields.
The relevance of frequencies is how the Borg adapt to direct energy weapons. It's mentioned countless times in ST and it's why the Federation alternate phaser frequency to make them (slightly) more effective. So no. It has nothing to do with bypassing shields. The Borg have several other weapons for doing that.

See above.
Again, you have no evidence for what it is about species 8472 weapons that makes the Borg succeptible to them. It may have nothing to do with magnitude.

So are you honestly telling me that I could destroy the Borg with kiloton firepower if “magnitude” had nothing to do with it? That would just mean that they would be far easier to destroy.

Even if it does, it's quite clear that the magnitude of their weapons far outstrips anything the SW universe has and so they would win on their own.

We see an instance in Scorpion where the shields of the Voyager had (barely) survived a hit from a Bioship. Several other instances of it blowing out chunks of a Borg Cube, in all likelihood leaving it within a lower end magnitude of firepower that Trek is in(Scorpion again for references sake)

Raw power is completely ineffective against ablative armour. Still haven't answered that point (or any of the others i've made) Keep trying son. [/B]

Ablative armor degrades with every hit. Which enforces my point about ablative armor not being a no-limits fallacy. With something like a turbolaser, it’s going to degrade really, really fast.

jaden101 Restricted
Its an analysis. He’s basically establishing the scope and range of the tractor beam. Again, this was just a database search to prove that the stardestroyer.net site also does cover Star Trek canon.

So it references canon and then completely misinterprets it (the examples about the Borg I've already given in this thread, for example)

Hardly. It establishes the fact that Han Solo didn’t know what the hell he was talking about by the time that he had actually seen Alderaan in ruins. Especially considering that the Empire is fully well capable of destroying planets.

He didn't know about the Death Star....What with it being...a SECRET weapon and all. His life/freedom and livelyhood depend on him knowing the empire's compliment.

And why would fleet numbers be of any concern to a smuggler?

Because much of what he does is against empire laws?

This doesn’t disprove that he’s still demonstrably wrong about the capabilities of the Empire. And even if there are that many bioships out there, they will still turn tail and retreat in the face of superior firepower.

So what's the superior firepower? Given that, by canon, I've already proven it takes a stardestroyer days to action a Base Delta Zero which only melts the surface of a planet yet the bioships take seconds to completely obliterate a planet?

When Thrawn recovered them.

So he outfitted them several times in a short space of time before he was assassinated?...Nah...He didn't.

Yes and that makes them infallible….. riiiggghhtt….. Well we know a few things for certain. Individual bioships with a glancing hit were only barely able to penetrate the shields of the voyager and that it is only capable of blowing chunks out of borg cubes, meaning that formations would be the only means of being able to sustain such firepower capacity. Something that could be solved in very short order with Turbolaser blast.

It wasn't even aiming at Voyager and never hit it with a glancing blow...It completely missed it (because it wasn't aiming for Voyager) and yet still sent it spinning completely out of control.

Not to mention a couple of minor shots completely obliterated 2 Borg cubes at the start of the episode "Scorpion"

It's canon that the Borg lost, IN A SINGLE BATTLE, 312 cubes and 8 planets. Species 8472 were projected to completely eliminate the Borg in a matter of weeks (that's hundreds of thousands of planets, billions of ships and trillions of drones)

I've already shown the top level canon weakness of a turbo laser blast...It can't even take out the weak millenium falcon in a single hit...A shot caused a minor explosion on an unshielded hanger deck...So how do you think it would destroy a Borg cube...Seriously...How can you actually propose that it could and still keep a straight face

And we’ve also seen instances of turbolasers vaporizing large asteroids and being able to slag worlds to the point where its uninhabited. If anything a turbolaser is not a one size fit all as it comes in many different categories. The ones that I refer to however are the heavy ones, that are usually mounted on starships.

And we've already seen small asteroids sheer off massive chunks of shielded SD's....Great defences...And we've also seen small bioships destroy entire planets. Not just an asteroid.

Perhaps for the 1st death star I’ll concede that. But definitely not the case for the second death star. A monster they built in secret with the materials spend being worth damn near millions of ISDs. A testament to their monstrous industry really.

I'll agree with that. Although it was somewhat off being finished, they'd clearly threw a massive amount of resources at it.

I'll finish my reply later...Off out for a while.

Hewhoknowsall Restricted
Originally posted by Robtard
If you're referring to your 'the Enterprise D fires at this much power, while the Acclamator attack-ship has shields at this much power', it's been answered and countered over and over, you simply insist on ignoring it. You also have yet to counter 99% of Jaden's points, so you asking others to counter yours is dishonest, though it's been done, as stated.

Wtf? Dude, I did respond to it. Obviously you are incapable of reading it, so I'll rephrase it for you:

Based on the official canon stats, the Aclamator is MILLIONS of times more powerful than the Enterprise.

Jaden's main rebuttal is that the Enterprise is just a science/exploration vessel and thus it isn't fair to compare them.

But would an outdated assault/transport ship FROM STAR TREK be millions of times more powerful than the Enterprise?

The answer: no, of course not! The Enterprise has been shown to successfully defend itself from enemy combat ships, showing that ST ships are not millions of times > than the Enterprise.

So:

Outdated assault/transport ship from SW = millions of Enterprises
Outdated assault/transport ship from ST =/= anywhere near millions of Enterprises

Get it?

Originally posted by Robtard

Superior tech in ST has been shown repeatedly, Jaden has listed and explained them to your over and over and over, again, you refuse to read/listen.

What do you mean? Have you actually read any of my posts? I've responded to all of them multiple times.

And Jaden has yet to explain how ST gets around their lack of armored vehicles, artillery or any form of ground combined arms tactics.

Originally posted by Robtard

Another thing ST has over SW, time-travel, which has been shown many a time. So if we're bringing everything in, then ST gets everything from the future (see Temporal Wars in ST Enterprise), which is exponentially more power than anything shown thus far.

Temporal Wars are possible futures/alternate timelines, are they not?

@Jaden101

Phasers have shown to be continously stopped by envirnmental cover such as crates. They also have never been (as far as I know) fired at the ranges that SW hand weapons have.

And ST completely lacks armored vehicles, artillery, motars, machine guns and basically combined arms forces. A single AT-AT would waste a legion of ST troops quite easily.

Robtard Senor Member

Acclamator is an assault ship, sad that you can't even get SW facts correct, when you're a complete SW fanatic. So only thing you've proven is that an outdated SW assault ship has a larger power output than an outdated ST science-vessel, you know, the kind that carry along families and children. Luckily for the Enterprise-D, this is a war where it's NOT the only ship and the Federation is doing it solo.

No, you've side-stepped his points or you dismiss then. Mainly about the phased weapons, cloaking and whatnot, you know, the ones that SW has ZERO defense against.

Yes and no. ST ships from the future have come back in time, ergo, they'd exist and they'd be included in this fight. The Enterprise-J as an example.

Please take this as friendly advice, but educate yourself on what you're debating first, then debate. At least that Doan dude knows about SW and ST.

Hewhoknowsall Restricted

And are outdated ST assault ships millions of times more powerful than the Enterprise like how outdated SW assault ships are?

I have asked for additional info on phased weapons. He sent me a bunch of links about "phased" weapons, but out of them all only one of them was said to actually phase through space.

Star Wars has cloaking devices too, so that point is moot.

Then in that case, only those that actually came back in time to the regular timeline "exist" for this thread.

Friendly advice? I'm a pretty reasonable person, and listen to rational advice, but your posts haven't been anywhere near calm or rational.

Robtard Senor Member

Not calm and rational? Alright, be a trolling *******, see how far that gets you, Skip.

Hewhoknowsall Restricted
Originally posted by Robtard
Not calm and rational? Alright, be a trolling *******, see how far that gets you, Skip.

Way to ignore my entire post.

Also, I was calmly arguing until Jaden suddenly got hostile. Read over our posts again in chronological order and our tone. You'll see that my tone is reactive to you guys. Once Jaden suddenly became nice and all, and I was nice too. In the few other debates that I've had with you, I was nice whenever you were nice. I more or less NEVER bash someone first.

Hewhoknowsall Restricted

Edit: Sorry, I was wrong, the shields of an Aclamator are inded BILLIONS of times more powerful than that of the Enterprise.

It's true that the Enterprise isn't a war ship, and it would be acceptable if it were only a few times, even a few hundreds times less powerful/durable. However, BILLIONS of times less durable clearly shows the big tech gap: even if it is a science vessel, if tech is equal then it shouldn't be billions of times less durable; a car isn't billions of times less durable than an Abrams tank. Is the Enterprise billions of times less durable than an outdated assault ship from Star TREK? I think not, otherwise it would've gotten one shotted by pretty much every enemy it ever faced. However, it is indeed billions of times less durable than a Star WARS outdated assault ship.

This means that the Aclamator could one shot the Enterprise, and it could probably one shot practically any other average ship, unless of course if they're heat dissipation > Aclamator's several hundred million gigabite power turbolasers. And since the Enterprise's shield heat dissipation is only slightly above 3000, you'd have to make the claim that an average ST ship is MILLIONS of times more durable than the Enterprise in order for them to take even a single hit from an OUTDATED Star Wars assault ship. If so, then how does the Enterprise even scratch any enemy ship it comes in contact with?

-Pr- Hey Yo!

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Phasers have shown to be continously stopped by envirnmental cover such as crates. They also have never been (as far as I know) fired at the ranges that SW hand weapons have.

And ST completely lacks armored vehicles, artillery, motars, machine guns and basically combined arms forces. A single AT-AT would waste a legion of ST troops quite easily.

only on low stun settings. on high settings, entire city blocks would be vaporised.

they dont need armoured tanks when they have photon grenades and high level beam phasers that will cut through an at-at like butter.

doan_m Senior Member
Originally posted by jaden101 [B]So it references canon and then completely misinterprets it
I can hardly see how considering that most of the canon that does get referenced in there shows instance that are very much in line with how Darth Wong would interpret it.
He didn't know about the Death Star....What with it being...a SECRET weapon and all.
Can't see how that really contest what I said about him not knowing about the Empires capabilities.
His life/freedom and livelyhood depend on him knowing the empire's compliment.
Immediate weapons capabilties? Sure. Fleet presence and patrols? Sure? Where they are sniffing around? Why not. Fleet Numbers? Why should he? Its of no immediate concern to him. Hell its a direct contradiction against canon sources that put the numbers of the fleet far above that.
Because much of what he does is against empire laws?
See above.
So what's the superior firepower? Given that, by canon, I've already proven it takes a stardestroyer days to action a Base Delta Zero
And i've proven that it takes much less time then that as per the Imperial Sourcebook. less than one hour for a fleet and several hours for a single ship with standard weaponry.
which only melts the surface of a planet yet the bioships take seconds to completely obliterate a planet?
Only if within the proper formation. Planet killing capabilities are not universal throughout each bioship. Besides, said 8472 planet killing weapons was not a direct energy transfer weapon, considering the delay between when the ship fired and when the planet blew up and also considering the fluctuations in visible energy.
So he outfitted them several times in a short space of time before he was assassinated?...Nah...He didn't.
Hyperdrive upgrades and a hanger conversion to support TIE/e fighters don't count?
It wasn't even aiming at Voyager and never hit it with a glancing blow...It completely missed it (because it wasn't aiming for Voyager) and yet still sent it spinning completely out of control.
Hardly. We see the bioship fire two shots. The first shot completely missed it with the Voyager still maintaining its velocity well enough. The second shot on the other hand scores a direct hit on the ship with the shields visibly having taken the hit and have sent Voyager flying wildly out of control.
Not to mention a couple of minor shots completely obliterated 2 Borg cubes at the start of the episode "Scorpion"

Well considering how flimsy a Borg cube would be in the face of Star Wars weaponry this is nothing special.

It's canon that the Borg lost, IN A SINGLE BATTLE, 312 cubes and 8 planets. Species 8472 were projected to completely eliminate the Borg in a matter of weeks (that's hundreds of thousands of planets, billions of ships and trillions of drones)

Originally posted by Scorpion Part 1
TORRES: We've analyzed the Borg's tactical database. They refer to these new aliens as Species 8472.

TUVOK: Over the past 5 months, the Borg have been attacked by them on at least a dozen occasions. Each time, they were defeated ... swiftly.


And if that was indeed a single battles worth(which I believe mind you) of casualties then this is certainly indicative the limitations of the borg to be far under the trillions. After all, a few dozen attacks, with one of them having losses of 8 planets and 312 cubes, a projection of being wiped out in weeks, doesn't look to favorably on the Borg.

I've already shown the top level canon weakness of a turbo laser blast...It can't even take out the weak millenium falcon in a single hit...A shot caused a minor explosion on an unshielded hanger deck...

And what makes you think it wasn't any of the lighter turbolasers? Again, one size does not fit all in the Star Wars universe. Especially considering that Turbolasers are also used as defensive turrets on ground based battles. Again, we already know that they were wanted alive(Reference: the Bounty hunter scene on the SSD where Vader specifies that there will be no disintegrations and that they are wanted alive)

So how do you think it would destroy a Borg cube...Seriously...How can you actually propose that it could and still keep a straight face

Because we see instances of it completely vaping asteroids, visual evidence(from ages back) of it slagging worlds and technical evidence that also supports it.
And we've already seen small asteroids sheer off massive chunks of shielded SD's....Great defenses...And we've also seen small bioships destroy entire planets. Not just an asteroid.

One of my previous remarks accidentally got embedded in a quote tag. I'll get it back out:

And that was while it was being constantly bombarded by debris to the point where its shields would end up really stressed. As per “The Empire Strikes Back” novelization this was described as a “steady rain” of asteroids, each one described as a multi-megaton compression bomb whenever it actually hit the ship. Obviously the ships shields were put under a severe strain of constant bombardment before finally having caved.

I'll agree with that. Although it was somewhat off being finished, they'd clearly threw a massive amount of resources at it.
Its massive relative to whats normally built in Star Wars, but it wasn't particularly a massive drain to the abundant materials that are usually available.

Hewhoknowsall Restricted

@Jaden101/Robtard:

Just to say, it would be appreciated if you were to respond to both my posts AND doan m's posts. Thanks

Originally posted by -Pr-
only on low stun settings. on high settings, entire city blocks would be vaporised.

Then how come in firefights in ST they don't just power up to full settings and blast through those crates?

Originally posted by -Pr-

they dont need armoured tanks when they have photon grenades and high level beam phasers that will cut through an at-at like butter.

And when exactly have they ever penetrated armor on an AT-AT's caliber before?

Hewhoknowsall Restricted

Nobody has yet to respond to my points...should we consider this debate a victory for me then?

jaden101 Restricted
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Nobody has yet to respond to my points...should we consider this debate a victory for me then?

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

Maybe in your tiny mind, son.

Come back when you've actually countered the points levied against your argument.

I have to say, though. This is genuinely the funniest thing i've read all week and i've been reading Danny Wallace's "The Yes Man" and it's pretty damn funny but you've stole the show with this absolute cracker.

I genuinely didn't know it was possible to be that delusional.

Absolute belter.

😂

Hewhoknowsall Restricted

Originally posted by jaden101
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

Maybe in your tiny mind, son.

Come back when you've actually countered the points levied against your argument.

I have to say, though. This is genuinely the funniest thing i've read all week and i've been reading Danny Wallace's "The Yes Man" and it's pretty damn funny but you've stole the show with this absolute cracker.

I genuinely didn't know it was possible to be that delusional.

Absolute belter.

😂

WTF? You haven't even come close to winning this debate. Answer this:

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Edit: Sorry, I was wrong, the shields of an Aclamator are inded BILLIONS of times more powerful than that of the Enterprise.

It's true that the Enterprise isn't a war ship, and it would be acceptable if it were only a few times, even a few hundreds times less powerful/durable. However, BILLIONS of times less durable clearly shows the big tech gap: even if it is a science vessel, if tech is equal then it shouldn't be billions of times less durable; a science lab isn't billions of times less durable than a military base. Is the Enterprise billions of times less durable than an outdated assault ship from Star TREK? I think not, otherwise it would've gotten one shotted by pretty much every enemy it ever faced. However, it is indeed billions of times less durable than a Star WARS outdated assault ship.

This means that the Aclamator could one shot the Enterprise, and it could probably one shot practically any other average ship from Star TREK, unless of course if their heat dissipation > Aclamator's several hundred million gigabite power turbolasers. And since the Enterprise's shield heat dissipation is only slightly above 3000, you'd have to make the claim that an average ST ship is MILLIONS of times more durable than the Enterprise in order for them to take even a single hit from an OUTDATED Star Wars assault ship. If so, then how does the Enterprise even scratch any enemy ship it comes in contact with?

I've tried to rebuttal your rebuttal to my argument that the Aclamator is millions (now, I realize, BILLIONS) of times more powerful than the Enterprise, and you have ignored my rebuttal.

And at your so called "argument" involving "omg Star Trek has phased weapons!!!" I've already responded to that. Now respond to the above.

-Pr- Hey Yo!

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
@Jaden101/Robtard:

Just to say, it would be appreciated if you were to respond to both my posts AND doan m's posts. Thanks

Then how come in firefights in ST they don't just power up to full settings and blast through those crates?

And when exactly have they ever penetrated armor on an AT-AT's caliber before?

because they're not trying to vaporise the entire corridor and bring whatever building they're in down around them. plus, starfleet officers rarely want to kill their enemies.

even the kill setting is one of the lower ones on the scale.

you make it sound like the at-at armour is that powerful. a fully powered phaser can blast through much more than the standard star wars blasters by a long way.

rick berman (i think it was) actually said in an interview that they had to make the phasers look less impressive, because if they were shown as powerful as they were, firefights would be impossible.