Another thread with Wonder Woman involved, and a number of people who don't know Diana as a character, or how she has evolved over the many years, talking smack...
The irony is, while conceptually Thor and Hercules fighting Diana would seem to be a tag-team win, it actually gives her a slight chance of being able to make a win out of it, moreso than fighting Thor one-on-one. (She beats Hercules 8 out of 10 times, and has routinely defeated him over the past 7 decades across multiple interpretations of her/his character, with the only times he has defeated her being due to guile or outside assistance from another deity... as perhaps with Thor in this case...). But in this specific case, having two of them to contend with gives Wonder Woman a window of using one against the other (and I don't mean just playing one's bravado against the other: she could *literally* redirect some attacks/positions one uses against her to affect the other). Here, moreso than in almost any other case, is where Diana's best hope is her greatly superior speed/combat reflexes. Now, mind you, I am not saying she would definitely win -- Thor and Hercules conceptually overwhelm her. BUT... she does stand a small, but still existing chance of at least making do... though not without some serious bodily harm inflicted on her...
Sidenote to above posts: Yes, Diana *was* holding back, as she didn't want to hurt Superman, but help him, as she directly "says" (via text box where she says she is "holding back" -- later should would remark to Bruce about how they (SM and WW) nearly killed each other) in the ground battle after they are back on earth. Only once he breaks her wrist, and she realizes she can't let him kill her or he'll kill everyone afterwards, does she kirk-out and stun him, then flies back to Lord, tries to reason with him, Clark shows up seconds later after Lord summons him back to, as Lord put it, either kill her, or force her to kill him (Superman)... She responds "No...", and hurls her tiara at Clark, faster than he can dodge (even while he is in superspeed motion himself), and slits his throat so as to incapacitate him for at least a few minutes. At that point Lord realizes that Diana isn't playing games anymore, and that she will do whatever it takes to stop the situation from spreading to the outside world, and then she...
Well, y'all know what happened next...
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
you kiddin me with this??? this is spite.
2 planet crushers against Wondy? True WW is a beast, but come on..........................
I argue her ftl reflexes and superior speed will force her not to ever lose here. Plus she has the Aegis shield and a lasso. Plus Herc can't fly and can get knocked into Orbit. Thor can't leave the battlefield so he can't go retrieve Herc. Thus it is him vs. her. And she wins again due to her ftl reflexes and better speed, one shot lasso ability, better fighting skill, and Aegis shield.
But since we are bound by CIS then she loses a majority (almost spite).
But if this was CIS off then she wins the majority.
So I concede here. Team wins.
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I really don't know what he has that would make you say otherwise. The strength difference between the two of them is not that great. If she can hit hard enough to hurt Superman, who is stronger and more durable than Thor imo, then I think she has all the strength she needs.
You mean besides having superior strength feats? You want to go scan for scan posting strength feats? We can, and believe me, Thor will come out on top. The gap is noticeable.
Not really. Thor's as strong as Superman, based on feats, and is tougher and has greater resistance to death through injury and pain.
Not really. I think it's been made pretty clear that if she engages Superman in a straight up strength vs. strength match alone? She'd get beat down. Same when it comes to Thor.
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
How often do we see Thor sparring with great martial artists? How often do we hear it mentioned the dozens of forms of armed and unarmed combat that he has mastered? Has Captain America called Thor the greatest melee fighter on Earth? You can't dismiss that just because you might not like it.
And how many times have we seen Wonder Woman sparring with great martial artists of note? The only time I recall, off the top of my head was the recent sparring match with Canary and Diana.
Thor while powerless beating the shit, and knocking out a Class 50 being using nothing but his skill, using jabs, precession strikes etc. to defeat Hercules, while powerless keeping and doing just as well as Captain America against an entire army of opponents, taking down the same opponents while powerless when they dropped Captain America temporarily, while powerless taking on a giant Grizzly bear and casually beating the crap out of it in like a few hits, taking on an entire castle worth of an army of knights while powerless and with only a sword, etc. trumps that.
None. It's never stated what Martial Art's he knows. It simply states his a Warrior, such as his the greatest killer and most capable killer Asgard has produced by Odin, or him being called Asgards mightiest fighter etc. Thor's a brawler.
Nah. Not greatest on Earth. His stated his mastered combat and the art of war, etc. though, acted surprised at how skilled Thor was in battle even when powerless etc.
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
And according to the stipulations of the OP, this is not a slug fest. They aren't just standing there trading blows. What that means is not only will Diana get more blows in, she will also get hit less due to her better reflexes, combat speed and better skill. And you're not dealing with someone who doesn't hit hard enough that those extra blows won't make a difference. If this were a slugfest then I would give it to Thor. He's probably more durable. It isn't, however.
True she'd get hit less, and hit more, more the gap between their physical strength/durability, along with Thor's skill which is on her level, and Thor's own impressive reflexes mean, that the advantage would be small and would not matter.
Not probably. He IS more durable.
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
But again, this thread is spite b/c I don't see her beating both of them.
Cool.
Originally posted by -Pr-
uhuh
It's true. Thor is tougher (Greater damage soak. Bastard's just really hard to put down.) and because of his Asgardian nature is more resistant to suffering through injury etc.
Recently, even an ordinary Asgardian had his heart and he was alive for 5 minutes after. According to Doom, it seemed that if he put the heart back he would have been fine.
Plus you have Thor with like every bone in his body broken, in unimaginable agony taking on dudes like Zeus.
Superman's skin plus his bio force field means his slightly harder to cut. Superman's probably harder to bruise too.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusSuperman fought his way out of the event horizon of two singularities on top of each other. If that isn't great damage soak and pain tolerance, I don't know what is.
It's true. Thor is tougher (Greater damage soak. Bastard's just really hard to put down.) and because of his Asgardian nature is more resistant to suffering through injury etc.Recently, even an ordinary Asgardian had his heart and he was alive for 5 minutes after. According to Doom, it seemed that if he put the heart back he would have been fine.
Plus you have Thor with like every bone in his body broken, in unimaginable agony taking on dudes like Zeus.
Superman's skin plus his bio force field means his slightly harder to cut. Superman's probably harder to bruise too.
Originally posted by Zeuodin
Superman fought his way out of the event horizon of two singularities on top of each other. If that isn't great damage soak and pain tolerance, I don't know what is.
Wasn't that some special dimension where an alien was trapped along with him and space and time were being distorted or some other usual some such bullshit that made it clear it wasn't a black hole as we know it.
That was a speed feat not a damage soak and pain tolerance feat if I recall the context.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympusany time light is trapped and one must travel far in excess of C to escape the pull, it is the gravitational pull of a singularity. The pressures inside a double black hole would be near infinite. I don't like debating with you. You demean every feat of the characters you argue against while over looking the obvious of the feat and then turn around and get upset when someone sees the obvious mechanical flaws in your arguments. Like shared feats. Thor using his hammer. Which negates any striking feats. That would be like me showing Superman hitting imperiex in the head with a prometheum hammer wrapped with wonder woman's lasso and then saying it's a strength feat. Ug. Obviously strength has something to do with it. But not totally.
Wasn't that some special dimension where an alien was trapped along with him and space and time were being distorted or some other usual some such bullshit that made it clear it wasn't a black hole as we know it.That was a speed feat not a damage soak and pain tolerance feat if I recall the context.
Originally posted by Zeuodin
any time light is trapped and one must travel far in excess of C to escape the pull, it is the gravitational pull of a singularity. The pressures inside a double black hole would be near infinite. I don't like debating with you. You demean every feat of the characters you argue against while over looking the obvious of the feat and then turn around and get upset when someone sees the obvious mechanical flaws in your arguments. Like shared feats. Thor using his hammer. Which negates any striking feats. That would be like me showing Superman hitting imperiex in the head with a prometheum hammer wrapped with wonder woman's lasso and then saying it's a strength feat. Ug. Obviously strength has something to do with it. But not totally.
Thanks for the science lesson? Again was it not stated to be different from a black hole, distorting time etc. I know their was some context that really pissed on it as being more of a durability feat than a speed feat. Thor's survived infinite pressure/weight apparently.
Because debating with you is a real treat. 👆
I don't demean shit. Stating what happened or asking about what happened which adds some context to said feat is not demeaning it. I get upset over stupidity. Their are no flaws but I am tired. I'll make one soon.
Are you really using that analogy, and continuing with this bullshit despite what we've talked about? Despite the fact that it's been shown Thor can hit as hard without his hammer as he can, with it, and the times it's shown that he hits harder with it than without it, the damage difference is extremely small? Despite the fact that we've seen unless he charges it or something, the only think it gives him when he uses it as a blunt force object is the mechanical advantage in a fight.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thanks for the science lesson? Again was it not stated to be different from a black hole, distorting time etc. I know their was some context that really pissed on it as being more of a durability feat than a speed feat. Thor's survived infinite pressure/weight apparently.Because debating with you is a real treat. 👆
I don't demean shit. Stating what happened or asking about what happened which adds some context to said feat is not demeaning it. I get upset over stupidity. Their are no flaws but I am tired. I'll make one soon.
Are you really using that analogy, and continuing with this bullshit despite what we've talked about? Despite the fact that it's been shown Thor can hit as hard without his hammer as he can, with it, and the times it's shown that he hits harder with it than without it, the damage difference is extremely small? Despite the fact that we've seen unless he charges it or something, the only think it gives him when he uses it as a blunt force object is the mechanical advantage in a fight.
Originally posted by Zeuodin
If you really believed Thor's strength feats were all that great without the hammer you wouldn't have posted assisted feats. If i punch a hole in a door that's great. If i take a sledge hammer to the door i could likely take the whole door down. The hammer IMO adds striking power and thus I don't count it as a strength feat. sorry.
They are not assisted feats. They are valid and I posted feats without the hammer as well.
For christ sake, stop using human comparisons. Of course the damage YOU can do with your fist would be much less than what you could do with a sledge hammer.
Fortunately and here's something you don't seem to get, the difference between Thor's fists and the hammer have been shown to be non existent and when it has been shown to exist the damage difference is apparently very small. As well, unlike you're fist to a sledge hammer, the durability gap is not that large when it comes to Mjolnir and Thor's fist if you can call it that.
Well too damn bad. If you don't get it then it's not my problem. I ain't your babysitter. Unfortunately I'm still going to be using those feats, no matter how much you ***** and moan or use stupid faulty analogies as which you view as comparisons.