Elder Gods Vs Galactus AGAIN

Originally posted by galactusischere
no...
Thanos before upgrade stalemated Odin(a serious fight though Odin had the SLIGHT upper hand)
After upgrade he should be equal to Odin or above.

Galactus 8/10

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
LOL. It doesn't have to be a physical being, it's a sentient life force. Who do you think Gaea pleaded to and mated to bring forth Atum?

What compare of metaphor don't you understand? Go google up metaphor. And Demogorge beating beat Odin is a duh!

What issue is this this happening in? I have my copies of Atlantis Attacks and having trouble finding this panel. Better yet, why don't you post the entire page where this is happening as well.

Do what? Did you even comprehend my post? Oi.

Aside from the handful of Elder Gods, the rest are shit. That's my entire argument but somehow this goes over your head. The elder gods are like any pantheon; their power levels very broadly across the board.

Thanks for the obvious.

What book and issue numbers?

LOL. Certainly not Gaea though.

Gawd. When did I ever say Chthon is Loki's equal? Secondly, Scarlet Witch was doing something even Chthon couldn't. The highest level of magic is Lord Chaos and Master Order. Both Dormammu and Odin, representives of Order and Chaos were battling this out in a chess game. Chthon is but one of the Lords of Chaos. He might have learned and written some of this but Lord Chaos has existed prior to Chthon. Please don't attribute Wanda's feat with Chthon's because then you might as well attribute Atum's feat to Gaea.

Where did I argue for or against this point?

LOL. So she's more powerful than Atum right? The Eternals came from her? Also, the pantheon of Earth gods didn't come directly from her. After Demogorge had defeated the last of the Elder Gods, he unleashed they're energy upon the Earth and created a new generation of gods. The current gods came about from the energies of the devoured Elder Gods. Please get you facts straight.

So? It just means he doesn't have enough power to travel out of that dimension. If LT, Eternity, Chaos, or one of the higher deities wanted they would open up a portal that Chthon can escape his dimension from.

Yup, you definitely can't comprehend what I wrote.

And?

oh. i misunderstood you then.
but chthon is considerd the most powerful chaos magic user (under lord chaos of course) hes been using wanda as a focal point of his magic

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
oh. i misunderstood you then.
but chthon is considerd the most powerful chaos magic user (under lord chaos of course) hes been using wanda as a focal point of his magic

No, Chthon isn't the considered the most powerful. Dormammu and Shuma Gorath are beings that's been referred to as Lords of Chaos.

Galactus ftw.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Slight upper hand? Odin didn't have a scratch on him and Thanos could barely stand. I suppose you also think that in Watchmen Ozymandias had a slight upper hand on Rorschach. To lose a battle you don't necessarily have to die or even fall unconscious. I've been in about ten fist fights that I can remember and I've lost half of them. In not one of them did I die (obviously) or black out but I admit I lost unambiguously.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Galactus was at normal levels. People should stop bringing this up as some kind of excuse. Unless I miss apart during that issue or before where it's stated Galactus was below normal levels or was hungry, Agamotto stalemated normal Galactus. Dr Strange pointed out that Galactus' would lose if he continued to underestimate Agamotto. In no way did he indicate Galactus' was weak in any way.

Agamotto had they advantage of his realm but with his two other allies plus the Elder Gods, Galactus is going down hard. The deities and gods win this 8/10 due to the Vishantis. They don't need prep time to beat Galactus. With prep tho, it's 10/10.

I'm not entirely sure but I believe that Nova stated to the Silver Surfer that Galactus hadn't been eating for some time and she didn't know when he would go look for substance, this is all from loose memory though.

I was under the impression that is was a gauntlet and that each contestent had prep before engaging Galactus.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
No, Chthon isn't the considered the most powerful. Dormammu and Shuma Gorath are beings that's been referred to as Lords of Chaos.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
chthon is also one of the lords of chaos, his name and feats says it all, also dormammu uses chthons spells, scarlet witch also is powered by chthon since her birth.

True

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
chthon is also one of the lords of chaos, his name and feats says it all, also dormammu uses chthons spells, scarlet witch also is powered by chthon since her birth.

They all use each others magic. The laws of magic are written and by these beings and tapped by those who can access them. Dormammu using Chthon's spells doesn't say that Chthon is more powerful than Dormammu or even his equal. Secondly, the Scarlet Witch's feat went beyond anything Chthon's done. A Chthon that's manifested in Quicksilver didn't even come close to what Scarlet Witch did. The Chaos Cascade was plantery while Scarlet's Chaos Wave was warping at least the universe. Whatever she became, she obviously exceeded him.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
They all use each others magic. The laws of magic are written and by these beings and tapped by those who can access them. Dormammu using Chthon's spells doesn't say that Chthon is more powerful than Dormammu or even his equal. Secondly, the Scarlet Witch's feat went beyond anything Chthon's done. A Chthon that's manifested in Quicksilver didn't even come close to what Scarlet Witch did. The Chaos Cascade was plantery while Scarlet's Chaos Wave was warping at least the universe. Whatever she became, she obviously exceeded him.

mystic arcana magik#1 chthon easily defeats oshtur(part of vishanti)

mystic arcana:grimme vishanti fails to destroy chthons dark hold, dr strange is nearly killed by chthons mere presence

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
when chthon used quck silver as a vessal it was only a tiney fraction of his power, the guy can never fully come to 616 universe ever again, because vishanti and gaea and every new sourceror supreme are blocking him from ever entering(banished)
also scarlet witch is directley powered by chthon its in the comics, when scarlet witch was born she was only a mutant(no magic), chthon powered her so she can use magic, her magic comes directly from chthon, he even considered her as his avatar

Uh, Wanda's mutant ability to access magic is what makes her so potent, that's why Chthon did not want to lose her to Set.

In House of M and Disassemble, Strange denied Chaos Magic's existence under Bendis. Before Busiek, Wanda's power was just mutant and not magic. It was under Bendis that her reality warping powers manifested. Busiek pushed that her powers are magic. Under him, it wasn't Chaos Magic. Slott had to retcon that bit about Chaos Magic not existing in his current Mighty Avengers run. Even in Magic Arcana, it's mentioned that Wanda's ability to mix science (mutant born power) and magic would mean she'd have no limits. In that same arc, Chthon was able to take control of her for an instance. However, later it's mentioned that when she actually studies magic she'd could break Chthon's bonds. The last we've seen of Wanda is dead. Whatever her type of power possessed in House of M she's now beyond Chthon by this point - Chthon saw this potential.

also chthon>dormammu as dormammu couldnt take earth under his own power so he used chthons spells. dont under estimate chthon , in the comics were the elder gods formed, it clearly had chthon as "The Lord Of Chaos Magic" most users using chaos magic eventually loses there soul to him.

?Where are you getting this idea that Dormammu couldn't take Earth without Chthon's spells? When Dr. Dormammu manifested in Strange's body, he took over all of Earth and called upon the sorcerers of 616 to be his lackeys.

Off the top of my head the Living Tribunal has used the Shield of Seraphim to bind Dr. Strange. Does that mean LT is weaker than the Seraphims because he called upon that spell? Your argument is pretty silly.

a sourceror supreme using his chthons book once reality warped the entire 616 universe making that a whole species of demons never even existed

What book was this from? I'd love to look that up.

mystic arcana magik#1 chthon easily defeats oshtur(part of vishanti)

What page are you talking about? I looked through it and saw NOTHING.

Colossus-Big C
mystic arcana:grimme vishanti fails to destroy chthons dark hold, dr strange is nearly killed by chthons mere presence

And what page in this book are you referencing? Ian with the cornerstones beat Chthon, who was posing as Oshtur.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Uh, Wanda's mutant ability to access magic is what makes her so potent, that's why Chthon did not want to lose her to Set.

In House of M and Disassemble, Strange denied Chaos Magic's existence under Bendis. Before Busiek, Wanda's power was just mutant and not magic. It was under Bendis that her reality warping powers manifested. Busiek pushed that her powers are magic. Under him, it wasn't Chaos Magic. Slott had to retcon that bit about Chaos Magic not existing in his current Mighty Avengers run. Even in Magic Arcana, it's mentioned that Wanda's ability to mix science (mutant born power) and magic would mean she'd have no limits. In that same arc, Chthon was able to take control of her for an instance. However, later it's mentioned that when she actually studies magic she'd could break Chthon's bonds. The last we've seen of Wanda is dead. Whatever her type of power possessed in House of M she's now beyond Chthon by this point - Chthon saw this potential.

?Where are you getting this idea that Dormammu couldn't take Earth without Chthon's spells? When Dr. Dormammu manifested in Strange's body, he took over all of Earth and called upon the sorcerers of 616 to be his lackeys.

Off the top of my head the Living Tribunal has used the Shield of Seraphim to bind Dr. Strange. Does that mean LT is weaker than the Seraphims because he called upon that spell? Your argument is pretty silly.

What book was this from? I'd love to look that up.

What page are you talking about? I looked through it and saw NOTHING.

And what page in this book are you referencing? Ian with the cornerstones beat Chthon, who was posing as Oshtur.

wanda had no magic at birth her mutant power is to affect probability,"Chthon struck down Russoff and bonded to a newborn, the future Scarlet Witch". then her ability was both probability and chaos magic
also dr strange only thinks chaos magic doesnt exist(who was also nearly killed by chthons full presence), it exist and it is mastered by chthon who spent billions of years 9all his life)studying and mastering dark/chaos magic, also the cournerstones destroyed the very fabric of magic, thats why chthon was defeated.
chthon created what we call zombies, the unliving was made possible by his magic. the zombie virus was also made by him.
also a sourceror, used the dark hold and made it so vampires always existed.(reality warped).

Marvel tiers chart has, Shuma-Gorath, Cyttorak,set and Chthon in the same tier, scarlet witch at her prime is 1 tier below.
this is also from handbooks.

Chthon possess a mastery of Chaos magic on a greater scale than anyone in the known universe. His magical power is on a scale that defies description. He is the author of The Darkhold, an indestructible compilation of magical parchments.
official handbook of the marvel universe deleux edition#2
silver surfer annual#2/5

Agatha then revealed that it was Chthon who had imbued in her the potential to wield magic, if not for his involvement, she would have been a mere energy-wielding mutant like her father. She was linked to Chthon's chaos magic, and that was the true source of her mutant power,

also Dormammu invoked the Cauldron of Chthon in a spell as he attempted to plunge the Earth into permanent darkness. he couldnt do it under his own power

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
wanda had no magic at birth her mutant power is to affect probability,"Chthon struck down Russoff and bonded to a newborn, the future Scarlet Witch". then her ability was both probability and chaos magic

She exceeds him now. In the Arcana books, it's pointed out that she can break the bond. She's beyond him now. Unless you want to bring up any relevant feat of his that comes close to her House M feats.

also dr strange only thinks chaos magic doesnt exist(who was also nearly killed by chthons full presence),

Bendis was denying that Chaos Magic is the reason for her powers. He was tying her reality warping powers to her mutant powers, not magic. Hence, there's not such thing as Chaos Magic. It's Bendis who gave her reality warping powers on that level. What her status now is unknown regarding what her abilities are. But she definitely exceeds Chthon.

it exist and it is mastered by chthon who spent billions of years 9all his life)studying and mastering dark/chaos magic, also the cournerstones destroyed the very fabric of magic, thats why chthon was defeated.

LMAO. The fabric of magic was unbalanced due to the War of the Seven Spheres. The Cornerstones were used to beat Chthon and fix magic laws, not destroy it.

chthon created what we call zombies, the unliving was made possible by his magic. the zombie virus was also made by him.
also a sourceror, used the dark hold and made it so vampires always existed.(reality warped).

So?

Marvel tiers chart has, Shuma-Gorath, Cyttorak,set and Chthon in the same tier, scarlet witch at her prime is 1 tier below.
this is also from handbooks.

LOL. Wut? Chthon and Cyttorak may be on the same tier but not with Shuma Gorath. SW is above Chthon and Cyttorak.

Chthon possess a mastery of Chaos magic on a greater scale than anyone in the known universe.

?More than Lord Chaos?

His magical power is on a scale that defies description.

ROFL. So does every other demon and gods and space deities.

He is the author of The Darkhold, an indestructible compilation of magical parchments.
official handbook of the marvel universe deleux edition#2
silver surfer annual#2/5 [/B]

So? I'm still waiting for you to provide the pages where Chthon defeats Oshtur.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing

?More than Lord Chaos?

[/B]

lord choas is the embodiment of chaos magic,
he doesnt use it, he IS it

also, you dont know for sure that scarlet witch is beyond him now, sence most of the guys feats he was either using a host(stripping him of power) or the darkhold. he claimed he could have bring the unverse to his knees, but he was only using qucik silver as a host who got stopped, but if he was succesful he would of fully summond himself back...

im pretty sure hes either close or on agamottos level. how does galactus beat beings that are individualy as powerful as a hungry galactus?

I just heard that an omega mutant named legion killed most of the elder gods.And that Atum and geae were spared,franklin Richards is beyond omega mutant,and Galactus after eating 4 planets(not a whole lot) is equal in power to him(f.f 603-4).Seems to me after a couple of nice size planets,Galactus could smash this crew no problem.Atum only has the power of a stay before eating gods.I wouldn`t exactly call him or his siblings galaxy busters.Odin and zues,together could take any one of them.

Galactus gets stoped but not killed.

Originally posted by zom1967
I just heard that an omega mutant named legion killed most of the elder gods.And that Atum and geae were spared,franklin Richards is beyond omega mutant,and Galactus after eating 4 planets(not a whole lot) is equal in power to him(f.f 603-4).Seems to me after a couple of nice size planets,Galactus could smash this crew no problem.Atum only has the power of a stay before eating gods.I wouldn`t exactly call him or his siblings galaxy busters.Odin and zues,together could take any one of them.

Yeah, those elder gods are featless and unimpressive.

Sure, they were regarded as a "universal threat" (in a later issue of uncanny x-men, it's even stated that they could have destroyed the universe), but when it comes to feats/showings.....we get a different picture. That's exactly what happened back in the day when their origins were depicted. In the issues of Magik/Ka-zar it's revealed that the elder gods are a threat to the entire universe, only to learn in Thor Annual that all of them got stomped by a skyfather-level character, Atum/Demogorge.

Btw, The elder gods were also featured in X-Infernus, 2 years before Legion erased them. That's where Nightcrawler, Colossus and Wolverine managed to hold their own against those elder gods, for a couple of pages.....

Although, they have impressive portrayals, which was in the Conan the Barbarian stories; they were actually shown to be multiversal there. But on the other hand, that's not their average, we know that Atum was stomping all of the elder gods, and he's just a skyfather-level character. That's also evident by the constant unimpressive portrayal of elder gods such as Chthon, Set, etc...