Originally posted by h1a8
Not so if Cap doesn't have his shield, since WW has braces and the Aegis shield. But if he does then you are right.But Sentry's speed mixed with Thano's gun will pawn Thor everytime alone.
I see where you are going though. Good thread.
Originally posted by tideoftime
The wind defense would be marginal, at best, as the lasso has repeatedly demonstrated its ability to ignore outside factors (even to the extent of ignoring the gravitational pull of a blackhole, on at least two separate occasions in both WW and JL). It might help once or twice, but he will have to realize quickly that that defense won't hold...
I would agree if it was the case of let's say Storm but Thor tends to summon mystically enhanced elements so I can't really tell if her lasso will remain unaffected. I feel thor's winds can protect him.
it was an avengers issue in the 80s when cap beat hercules at wrestling. Hercules was in armor/disgise and cap didnt know who he was. It ended with herc on the floor.
The scans that didnt come up (half worked, half didnt)
Skrull that fought thing:
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1038/capskrull2wu1.jpg
Sinister created namor clone:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4222/capvnamorc3uy0.jpg
The real namor:
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6698/max00129lsfx4.jpg
Mad thudnerstrike:
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/5370/thunderstrike0402ue0.jpg
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/6536/thunderstrike0403ns0.jpg
Cap beat thor by keeping him away from the hammer for 60 seconds back in those days. He also blocked mjolnir with a shield toss. Thor was shocked he couldnt touch cap in combat.
Let's not forget that he was also going to kill OF thor but Loki saved him. That was OF thor who had just killed the hulk & thing with relative ease.
Cap is the biggest over-achiever in comics. Ramp him up to Orin level stats and he'd have a good shot on thor as thor fights normally, let alone this IMO.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Those scans fail pretty hard.- He tagged the mind-control button on Namor.
- He did not really hurt Thunderstrike (Who is below Thor for that matter) but only dodged his attacks. Even Thor could easily evade Thunderstrike's attacks.Like I said, Cap does not win these fights, he survives them.
Im not saying cap can consistantly beat top tiers or anything stupid. Im saying that cap overpeforms so with stats comparable to thor (especially when thor is doing his usual brawl thing) cap should dominate.
Originally posted by khazra
it was an avengers issue in the 80s when cap beat hercules at wrestling. Hercules was in armor/disgise and cap didnt know who he was. It ended with herc on the floor.The scans that didnt come up (half worked, half didnt)
Skrull that fought thing:
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1038/capskrull2wu1.jpgSinister created namor clone:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4222/capvnamorc3uy0.jpgThe real namor:
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6698/max00129lsfx4.jpgMad thudnerstrike:
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/5370/thunderstrike0402ue0.jpghttp://img474.imageshack.us/img474/6536/thunderstrike0403ns0.jpg
Cap beat thor by keeping him away from the hammer for 60 seconds back in those days. He also blocked mjolnir with a shield toss. Thor was shocked he couldnt touch cap in combat.
Let's not forget that he was also going to kill OF thor but Loki saved him. That was OF thor who had just killed the hulk & thing with relative ease.Cap is the biggest over-achiever in comics. Ramp him up to Orin level stats and he'd have a good shot on thor as thor fights normally, let alone this IMO.
Never happened. I just flipped through Avengers #80, where did Captain America defeat Hercules?
He defeated Namor by hitting the control on the back of his neck. All he did was dodge Thunderstrike and use his momentum and skill to throw him around. He wasn't accomplishing anything besides pissing him off. In the next page, Thunderstrike get's pissed off and almost kills him.
Thor lost Mjolnir as I recall, and simply didn't regain it in time. Captain America didn't even make him lose Mjolnir as I recall.
Shocked he couldn't touch him in combat? He was just impressed he could dodge a throw from Mjolnir in his first few appearances, is all.
He did once block change the direction of Mjolnir with a shield throw back in the day.
You need to re-read that shit. How on Earth was Captain America going to defeat Thor in any way? Never mind kill him.
Thor was just going with it as his baby was in danger. The moment it was out of danger, he casually grabs Captain America and one shots him.
He was in no way about to kill him. Hell, Captain America has hurt himself just hitting Thor. Thor was simply rolling with it.
Oh and Thor didn't have the Odin Force when that happened and when he killed Thing and Hulk.
Originally posted by khazra
He was shown to be fast enough to hit an angry namor just where he wanted and no-goed a pissed thuderstrike, how are they bad feats?
He also has hurt hulk & onslaught before IIRC. In the Ulik scan he pulls Ulik off a thor whos struggling.Im not saying cap can consistantly beat top tiers or anything stupid. Im saying that cap overpeforms so with stats comparable to thor (especially when thor is doing his usual brawl thing) cap should dominate.
- You don't have to be awfully fast to dodge and hit someone like Namor there. It would not win an actual fight 😐
- Thunderstrike doesn't have any sort of skills, you just need to predict where he's going. Thor danced around him.
- He did not pull off Ulik, he shoved iron into his throat. Which makes -no- sense since the dark elves are weak to that, not Troll.
It's an incredibly weak argument because Cap is not winning these encounters. He's surviving. Hitting the back of Namor's neck would not stop him. Throwing Thunderstrike into the wall will not stop him. Pushing Iron into Ulik's throat will not stop him. These are not applicable scenarios to the fights on KMC. Where opponents fight to a victor is decided and no one has made up weaknesses or bullshit stipulations. I wouldn't deny cap a win if he had to hit the button in Thor's neck that automatically took him out 😐
Your entire argument also relies on Thor doing absolutely nothing but swinging his hammer, and doing a bad job at that. That's not how it goes down on KMC. The fight is not heavily stacked in favour of the popular leading character. They are equals, and in this case, Thor has far superior stats in everything aside from (arguably) fighting speed. Better yet, this fight isn't even hand to hand, Thor actually has his freaking hammer.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympusthor may be more skilled and stronger than thunderstrike, but their speed is on par
Except....Thor > Thunderstrike
Many times over.
It doesn't solidify shit. And he doesn't have a weakness in terms of speed.
thor's speed is ok against most of his opponents, but not against the superspeed opponents he's often pitted against on KMC (ie superman, Wonder Woman)
Originally posted by Starscream M
thor may be more skilled and stronger than thunderstrike, but their speed is on parthor's speed is ok against most of his opponents, but not against the superspeed opponents he's often pitted against on KMC (ie superman, Wonder Woman)
Where does it every state that Thor and Thunderstrike are on par on speed? Never seen that.
Thor is far stronger, a lot more skilled etc. His clearly shown as far beyond Thunderstrike in all categories.
Seeing as how he can do alright against opponents like Hyperion, Silver Surfer, his reflex feats etc. he'd do fine.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- You don't have to be awfully fast to dodge and hit someone like Namor there. It would not win an actual fight 😐
- Thunderstrike doesn't have any sort of skills, you just need to predict where he's going. Thor danced around him.
- He did not pull off Ulik, he shoved iron into his throat. Which makes -no- sense since the dark elves are weak to that, not Troll.It's an incredibly weak argument because Cap is not winning these encounters. He's surviving. Hitting the back of Namor's neck would not stop him. Throwing Thunderstrike into the wall will not stop him. Pushing Iron into Ulik's throat will not stop him. These are not applicable scenarios to the fights on KMC. Where opponents fight to a victor is decided and no one has made up weaknesses or bullshit stipulations. I wouldn't deny cap a win if he had to hit the button in Thor's neck that automatically took him out 😐
Your entire argument also relies on Thor doing absolutely nothing but swinging his hammer, and doing a bad job at that. That's not how it goes down on KMC. The fight is not heavily stacked in favour of the popular leading character. They are equals, and in this case, Thor has far superior stats in everything aside from (arguably) fighting speed. Better yet, this fight isn't even hand to hand, Thor actually has his freaking hammer.
Originally posted by khazra
he's not putting anything in Ulik's mouth, he's fish-hooking him.
My argument is that cap out peforms his stats through a combination of insane skill, the shield and insane skill with the shield. Other characters that are generally considered to be class 2 at best havent hurt people on the level that cap has with blows.
Cap fights way above his ability. Therefore if you put him on a similar level to thor for example, he should outpeform him.
Couple of things. He is putting a small iron hammer in Ulik's mouth. Read the comic, you'll see Ulik almost choking to death. He is not at a similar level to Thor, but far weaker/less durable and only arguably faster. And that argument would only hold water in a hand to hand fight.
9/10 fights with thor are hand to hand fights thogh. Even with the massively versatile odin power he only really slugged it out with Bor.
Wonderman is still supossedly thor level strengthwise (and i believe he's still showed himself to be significantly stronger than Ares at the beginning of incredible herc IIRC). Its more his durability thats questionable.
Namor is still durable enough to go at it with top tiers.
Id say he's ballparking thor across the board statwise and is a significantly betetr fighter.
Originally posted by khazra
9/10 fights with thor are hand to hand fights thogh. Even with the massively versatile odin power he only really slugged it out with Bor.Wonderman is still supossedly thor level strengthwise (and i believe he's still showed himself to be significantly stronger than Ares at the beginning of incredible herc IIRC). Its more his durability thats questionable.
Namor is still durable enough to go at it with top tiers.
Id say he's ballparking thor across the board statwise and is a significantly betetr fighter.
Once again, couple of things.
90% of Thor's matches involve hand to hand fighting, but they are not solely hand to hand. Thor only had a fraction of the Odinforce against Bor and does not use energy blasts on earth most of the time. Those of us who read it, know that he berated Thor-Girl for using even the most basic energy attack on Earth. It does more harm than good. He's trying to protect people, makes no sense for him to level a city.
Namor is not durable enough to go up against Thor. Thor freaking one-shotted him while it was raining.
