Magneto vs Human-Torch

Originally posted by Blair Wind
There's always been alot of debate about this. I know that most posters agree that Magneto has always had latent telepathic powers, but I know for fact there is a relatively old scan that has Dr. Doom talking to Erik about his helmet and stating on panel it protected him from telepathy.

Anyways, does anyone have any scans of Magneto and Torch ever facing off? I'm sure in comics Magneto would win, but I'm giving Torch the benefit of the doubt because his magnetic fields should be weakened against him. I mean heating a magnet will disturb the magnetic field—the spin of the electrons goes out of alignment and becomes random. Also, it should disrupt his control over metals as:

"ferromagnet materials will lose their magnetism if heated above a point known as the Curie temperature. At this point, the energy being put into the magnet from the heat will permanently disrupt the magnetic domain structure of the material, turning it into a paramagnetic material [a similar effect occurs in materials called hard ferrites, which exhibit a form of magnetism called ferrimagnetism; the analogous temperature for these materials is known as the Neel point]. You would have to re-magnetize the magnet again, either in a solenoid or with another permanent magnet, in order to restore the magnetism. If you heat a magnet up a little bit, it will lose some of its magnetism, but on returning to room temperature [depending on how high it was heated, and on the shape of the magnet itself], full magnetism can be restored."

Then again, he could always give Magneto a heat stroke (ala She Hulk in CoC). Or go Nova and end it. Just saying, I like Magneto, I just don't see how the one power that disrupts his is being so easily dismissed.

Magneto has been rather consistently potrayed as having his own telepathic defenses.

What makes you think that Human Torch's powers would weaken Magneto's control over the magnetic field? Magneto has withstood and manipulated the Phoenix Force and withstood attacks from a pissed off Phoenix unharmed. Shit, Magneto has withstood Nuclear Explosions while weakened and was completely fine with his control as I recall.

Just because it would work in the real world doesn't mean it will work on Magneto. And I doubt re-magnetizing an object will be difficult for Magneto.

A heat stroke work on Magneto? With his durability and shields working? Seriously, seriously doubt it. Nothing get's through his shields unless he allows it even if it's something like Photons.

How would a Nova end the fight? When has a Nova blast penetrated Magneto's shields? I've seen them tank attacks from Galactus, Thor, and other things.

Magneto 10/10 effortlessly.

heat has never been a problem for magneto, his magnetism is as strong as the earth's magnetic field and it has been tanking sol's nuclear power for billions of years.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Magneto has been rather consistently potrayed as having his own telepathic defenses.

What makes you think that Human Torch's powers would weaken Magneto's control over the magnetic field? Magneto has withstood and manipulated the Phoenix Force and withstood attacks from a pissed off Phoenix unharmed. Shit, Magneto has withstood Nuclear Explosions while weakened and was completely fine with his control as I recall.

A heat stroke work on Magneto? With his durability and shields working? Seriously, seriously doubt it. Nothing get's through his shields unless he allows it even if it's something like Photons.

How would a Nova end the fight? When has a Nova blast penetrated Magneto's shields? I've seen them tank attacks from Galactus, Thor, and other things.

I know, Im just saying there have been scans that show otherwise. Consistently, he has been shown to be latent telepathic, just saying there are older scans that Fraction could have gotten that from.

And the rest is not my point. I know that Magneto is powerful. I know that on an average his power output is more than the Human Torch's. My only question is how could Magneto, scientifically (at least as scientifically as comics get) be able to win against his own kryptonite: extreme levels of heat.

My vote, in a comic, will almost always go to Magneto. That is just the way they stand in comics. But its an issue of having a tactical advantage over Magneto that I'm stating and is a scientific fact: heat, especially extreme heats, substantially weaken magnets and magnetic fields. And HT can bring on some extremely high temps:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6663/13antigravityblastpr7.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/1834/18altersflameandbodyandqq6.jpg

As for your questions about a Nova Blast being compared to a blast from Galactus and Thor, neither where heat. They were, IIRC, just energy. And yes, the sheer energy output from them is exponentially more powerful than a Nova Blast, but again, it probably did not have high temps. And as for the PF, how much of the phoenix is heat and how much is pure psionic energy?

I'm not trying to disagree, or say that Magneto will not win. I'm just playing devils advocate because I think HT is being underrated, especially given the scientific fact that heat does weaken magnets and magnetic fields

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, or show me scans stating otherwise.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I know, Im just saying there have been scans that show otherwise. Consistently, he has been shown to be latent telepathic, just saying there are older scans that Fraction could have gotten that from.

And the rest is not my point. I know that Magneto is powerful. I know that on an average his power output is more than the Human Torch's. My only question is how could Magneto, scientifically (at least as scientifically as comics get) be able to win against his own kryptonite: extreme levels of heat.

My vote, in a comic, will almost always go to Magneto. That is just the way they stand in comics. But its an issue of having a tactical advantage over Magneto that I'm stating and is a scientific fact: heat, especially extreme heats, substantially weaken magnets and magnetic fields. And HT can bring on some extremely high temps:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6663/13antigravityblastpr7.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/1834/18altersflameandbodyandqq6.jpg

As for your questions about a Nova Blast being compared to a blast from Galactus and Thor, neither where heat. They were, IIRC, just energy. And yes, the sheer energy output from them is exponentially more powerful than a Nova Blast, but again, it probably did not have high temps. And as for the PF, how much of the phoenix is heat and how much is pure psionic energy?

I'm not trying to disagree, or say that Magneto will not win. I'm just playing devils advocate because I think HT is being underrated, especially given the scientific fact that heat [b]does weaken magnets and magnetic fields

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, or show me scans stating otherwise. [/B]

Fair enough.

When has heat been shown as his Kryptonite though? I have never seen an instance where an object being hot or extreme hurt him. You can't just assume because in real world logic heat can affect magnets it will effect Magneto seeing as how he has withstood attacks from Phoenix and her flame, withstood Nuclear Weapons while weakened all unharmed etc.

Never said he couldn't bring his heat up to impressive levels.

The fact that heat has never bothered Magneto should mean the burden of proof is up to you.

When he fought Phoenix and pushed her to her limits to the point he defeated her (Impressive as several issues earlier I'm pretty sure the same Phoenix was beating on Fire Lord etc.), it was stated her powers were both physical and psychic and she stated her powers were those born in a raging Sun unleashed on Magneto. So like I said, where has Magneto ever been affected by heat?

And I'm pretty sure I recall Magneto creating an energy vortex against Johny.

I know heat weakens magnets but does it really weaken the field itself? Or does it weaken the field because it weakens the magnet?

weakens the magnet, effects the field ei. the sun's output of heat and charged particles creates steller wind that creates a "comet tail" look to earth's magnetic field.

Hes withstood nukes, which burn increadibly hot. Torch isnt winning even with his 3 friends.