Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Punisher has the benefit of luck, over-the-top CIS, and plot-induced stupidity.... all of which stem from poor writing, and thus are eliminated from forum matches.
You don't get to dictate what feats can and can't be used on this forum. You yourself have listed examples of Punishers good showings. There are loads of examples of Punisher having good showings against people as fast and sometimes faster than Wolverine. If you think they are all bad writing and indicate that he can't briefly hold his own against Wolverine thats up to you.
Don't know what you mean by CIS. Wolverine was trying to kill him and he failed. In fact I think Wolverines tried to kill Punisher twice and failed, both poor writing.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Wolverine is freakishly strong for a guy his size, moves faster than ordinary people can see, and has foot-long claws that can shred just about anything with ease. Only so many Bruces can attack him at once, and the closer they get would be like walking into a wood chipper.
Your basically being a fanboy and saying that Wolverine would be too fast for Batman. Illustrates what a terrible debator you are when you actually think this is a good argument. Im not even going to bother trying to address this point.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Now, after some point, Wolverine could be overwhelmed and restrained--- IF HE WERE ALONE. In case you forgot or chose to ignore, Sabretooth has Wolverine's back in this fight. There is no way in hell the Bruces are going to restrain fully-upgraded Sabretooth.
This is one of the many examples were you think you're being smart were you miss the blantantly obvious. Read what I said again and get a hint. The bit underlined will give you a clue.
Originally posted by DeadlineFor starters 5 Bruce Waynes could physically restrain Wolverine, then you have 45 others. facepalm
Sabreooth isn't beating 45 Batmans. Hell Batman, Nightwing and Robin beat Deathstroke. You really think that Sabretooth can beat 45 Batmans? Sabretooth could get restrained and stabbed through the eyeballs for the win. Also like Cap Batman has been shown to KO people with high durability.
Anyway im going to go into more detail in why they will win even the jungle scenerio.
First of all Batman is tactically superior and there are 50 of them. If Punisher can track a guy down in the jungle faster than Wolverine and track Wolverine in the jungle, they don't have an advantage over 50 Batmans.
There are a whole load of options in the jungle. If theres water and quicksand that could be used and some animals are poisonous. Pretty sure Batman is smart enough to create traps that could slow Sabes and Wolv down. Most likely wooden weapons but they can pierce Wolverines body and posion could be added. Once there weakened 50 Batman take them down in h2h.
I can't really be arsed to go into the city example because even then Batman has much greater resources that he can use. Use your imagination.
Don't waste your time responding to my post.
Originally posted by Eternal IdolMoving faster than the eye can see is tricky. For something human size to move their body that fast, they'd have to be several times faster than sound. A trained figher might be able to move their hands faster than you can see. Hell I can move my hand so fast that you really wouldn't see it in front of your face either.
Punisher has the benefit of luck, over-the-top CIS, and plot-induced stupidity.... all of which stem from poor writing, and thus are eliminated from forum matches.Wolverine is freakishly strong for a guy his size, moves faster than ordinary people can see, and has foot-long claws that can shred just about anything with ease. Only so many Bruces can attack him at once, and the closer they get would be like walking into a wood chipper.
Now, after some point, Wolverine could be overwhelmed and restrained--- IF HE WERE ALONE. In case you forgot or chose to ignore, Sabretooth has Wolverine's back in this fight. There is no way in hell the Bruces are going to restrain fully-upgraded Sabretooth.
This is a bloodbath, and the Bruces are totally screwed.
I think people are neglecting that Bruce does have stopping power. He might not ko them or anything in one hit, but he *can* knock them down. And with 50 people who can get you on the ground pretty fast, restraining them is an option. Solid fight though.
Originally posted by Deadline
Don't know what you mean by CIS. Wolverine was trying to kill him and he failed. In fact I think Wolverines tried to kill Punisher twice and failed, both poor writing.
As much as I hated to see it, Daken vs. Punisher is the way any close-quarters Wolverine vs. Punisher fight would go.
Originally posted by Deadline
Your basically being a fanboy and saying that Wolverine would be too fast for Batman. Illustrates what a terrible debator you are when you actually think this is a good argument.
Originally posted by Deadline
Sabreooth isn't beating 45 Batmans.First of all Batman is tactically superior and there are 50 of them. If Punisher can track a guy down in the jungle faster than Wolverine and track Wolverine in the jungle, they don't have an advantage over 50 Batmans.
There are a whole load of options in the jungle. If theres water and quicksand that could be used and some animals are poisonous. Pretty sure Batman is smart enough to create traps that could slow Sabes and Wolv down. Most likely wooden weapons but they can pierce Wolverines body and posion could be added. Once there weakened 50 Batman take them down in h2h. I can't really be arsed to go into the city example because even then Batman has much greater resources that he can use.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Moving faster than the eye can see is tricky. For something human size to move their body that fast, they'd have to be several times faster than sound. A trained figher might be able to move their hands faster than you can see. Hell I can move my hand so fast that you really wouldn't see it in front of your face either.
That's true, but you and I are ordinary humans. Wolverine and Sabretooth have genuine superhuman reflexes. The average joe on the streets wouldn't be able to keep up with a trained boxer. Now say that boxer were several times faster than he already was.... Not saying Batman is ordinary or that Wolverine is much too fast for Batman to track. I was just making a point about Wolverine's speed, and Alf took it as something else.
The Bruces don't have the benefit of their body armor, gadgets, or prep. They're fighting two guys who are stronger, faster, and more durable than them, who also have powerful healing factors and weapons that can slice the Bruces effortlessly. Since it wasn't specified, both teams start .5 km away from each other, so it would become a melee almost immediately.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think people are neglecting that Bruce does have stopping power. He might not ko them or anything in one hit, but he *can* knock them down. And with 50 people who can get you on the ground pretty fast, restraining them is an option. Solid fight though.
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Does nerve strikes work on Wolverine/Sabes?
Usually, no. Shingen successfully used nerve strikes against poisoned Wolverine (before his HF got kicked up); but nerve strikes usually just piss him off. Ms. Marvel tried a nerve strike on pre-upgraded Sabretooth and he pretty much laughed it off.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
As much as I hated to see it, Daken vs. Punisher is the way any close-quarters Wolverine vs. Punisher fight would go.Later that day:
wanknone
That's true, but you and I are ordinary humans. Wolverine and Sabretooth have genuine superhuman reflexes. The average joe on the streets wouldn't be able to keep up with a trained boxer. Now say that boxer were several times faster than he already was.... Not saying Batman is ordinary or that Wolverine is much too fast for Batman to track. I was just making a point about Wolverine's speed, and Alf took it as something else.
The Bruces don't have the benefit of their body armor, gadgets, or prep. They're fighting two guys who are stronger, faster, and more durable than them, who also have powerful healing factors and weapons that can slice the Bruces effortlessly. Since it wasn't specified, both teams start .5 km away from each other, so it would become a melee almost immediately.
Normally, I'd agree, but it's not 50 Bruces against berserk Wolverine--- that fight would see casualties on the Bat side before they could restrain him (assuming they could). However, the version of Sabretooth being used is likely as strong or stronger than Spider-Man, faster and more durable than Wolverine, and with an even stronger healing factor. The Bruces would land hits on either of them, but I don't think they could do enough damage to gain the upper hand before Logan or Creed heal. Restraining Creed isn't happening.
We are ordinary humans, and I am a trained fighter myself in excellent shape, but they aren't anywhere near being fast enough to making their entire bodies invisible and they haven't in comics, hand speed is a different story.
Now for Sabes, he isn't stronger than Spidey, but he doesn't need to be either. They are still capable of knocking both down, will they get kills, yes, but to say Batman can't do anything to them is a bit much IMO.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
We are ordinary humans, and I am a trained fighter myself in excellent shape, but they aren't anywhere near being fast enough to making their entire bodies invisible and they haven't in comics, hand speed is a different story.Now for Sabes, he isn't stronger than Spidey, but he doesn't need to be either. They are still capable of knocking both down, will they get kills, yes, but to say Batman can't do anything to them is a bit much IMO.
Hey C you do know that bloodlusted doesnt neccsarily mean beserk. Is that what you mean't? Or did you mean just out for the kill?
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I said bloodlusted, and fighting at just forever at any intensity, so berserking isn't out of the equation, he doesn't start out that way though.
Exactly. EI seems to be assuming that Wolverine is on beserk mode which means hes more powerful. As we both know bloodlusted is just out to kill. That definetly gives Bats the win, if it was beserk mode I think I would have agreed with him.
Yeah its possible he might go beserk mode but unlikely.
Originally posted by SamZED
I didnt mean that he first cut it off than stabbed it, I meant that he first stabbed it than cut it off with another arm, maybe there wasn't any need for that yeah, but that'd sure look badass. And yeah I remember that feat, the guy even had an armor on if I remember correctly. But if he tore off the head in the book I think it would've a scarier picture with spine and skin hanging..
There's a missing chunk of flesh then if he cut it (all six claws are extended).
Originally posted by Deadline
In hindsight im still not completely sure. Beserk Wolverine is very dangerous but even then I don't think all his showings are all that. Cap in his own was able to restrain a beserk Wolverine for a bit.
Berserk? Are you sure? Wasn't that just werewolf mode? Haven't read that arc.