Particle Beams

Does anyone know what it would look like if you fired a charged particle beam (let's say protons going at 99% the speed of light) in a Earth-like atmoshpere or what would happen so something it hit?

Alternately who could I ask to find out?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Does anyone know what it would look like if you fired a charged particle beam (let's say protons going at 99% the speed of light) in a Earth-like atmoshpere or what would happen so something it hit?

Alternately who could I ask to find out?

They'd be in the various colors that we see from lightening (I assume...).

I think lightening is technically a particle beam.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

who could I ask to find out?

Try a physicist.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
Try a physicist.

The one physicist I know is bad at giving straight anwers.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The one physicist I know is bad at giving straight anwers.

Try another.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Does anyone know what it would look like if you fired a charged particle beam (let's say protons going at 99% the speed of light) in a Earth-like atmoshpere

Do charged particles release/reflect photons?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
or what would happen so something it hit?

like ran into the side of the beam?

it would be unlikely that stuff would even get close, as the energy in the particles would be immense. Flesh and metal would melt/burn/etc likely before it even hit the beam.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Alternately who could I ask to find out?

check out the office hours of a physics prof, or if you aren't in uni, maybe corner a science of physics teacher and get their opinion. Its pretty much unknown territory, so their guess may only be a little bit more informed than yours.

Alternatively, what you are describing sounds a lot like a plasma beam, so possibly someone who deals with astrophysics and the sun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation

Maybe?

Originally posted by inimalist
Do charged particles release/reflect photons?

like ran into the side of the beam?

it would be unlikely that stuff would even get close, as the energy in the particles would be immense. Flesh and metal would melt/burn/etc likely before it even hit the beam.

check out the office hours of a physics prof, or if you aren't in uni, maybe corner a science of physics teacher and get their opinion. Its pretty much unknown territory, so their guess may only be a little bit more informed than yours.

Alternatively, what you are describing sounds a lot like a plasma beam, so possibly someone who deals with astrophysics and the sun

What this guy said except go for a particle physicist. I am quite sure they make particle beams all the time in particle accelerators.

And, technically, lightening would be a particle beam since it's a beam of electrons traveling close to the speed of light. I just assume that a more controlled particle beam would give off just as many colors as lightening.

And, yes, inimalist is right. The particle beam (or the components) would have to be big enough to reflect visible light. (light wavelengths do have an actual size.)

Originally posted by inimalist
Do charged particles release/reflect photons?

I have no idea.

Originally posted by inimalist
like ran into the side of the beam?

it would be unlikely that stuff would even get close, as the energy in the particles would be immense. Flesh and metal would melt/burn/etc likely before it even hit the beam.

Okay, wow, I hadn't considered that.

Originally posted by inimalist
Alternatively, what you are describing sounds a lot like a plasma beam, so possibly someone who deals with astrophysics and the sun

People tell me that the traditional idea of a plasma beams is very soft sci-fi. I've gotten the impression that particle beam weapons are are a little bit more realistic. I'm not going for rock solid but much harder than, say, Star Trek.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I have no idea.

it comes down to this, basically, as our sense of sight is based on photons. If it works like a beam of light, the only thing we would see (other than that ripple effect that heat produces) would be individual particles when they came in contact with something. If they release photons, it would be like a beam of energy, almost X-men style. Like the sun, only stretched out into a beam. If they reflect photons, it would look like a solid beam of any matter in the colour of the photon they reflect.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Okay, wow, I hadn't considered that.

it brings up the idea that anything firing a particle beam would have to be strong enough to withstand such heat/energy

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
People tell me that the traditional idea of a plasma beams is very soft sci-fi. I've gotten the impression that particle beam weapons are are a little bit more realistic. I'm not going for rock solid but much harder than, say, Star Trek.

you are way outside my knowledge of physics already, so I really can't say

Originally posted by dadudemon
What this guy said except go for a particle physicist. I am quite sure they make particle beams all the time in particle accelerators.

But probably in a vaccum.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And, technically, lightening would be a particle beam since it's a beam of electrons traveling close to the speed of light. I just assume that a more controlled particle beam would give off just as many colors as lightening.

I'm not sure what you mean by "as many colors as lightning". Like it would be bright white?

I think I remember the phrase "linear lightning" being used to describe either electro-lasers or particle beams.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And, yes, inimalist is right. The particle beam (or the components) would have to be big enough to reflect visible light. (light wavelengths do have an actual size.)

But wouldn't it ionize the air sort of like lightning does? After all, electrons are too small to reflect light but we can still see the flash of lightning.

Originally posted by inimalist
it comes down to this, basically, as our sense of sight is based on photons. If it works like a beam of light, the only thing we would see (other than that ripple effect that heat produces) would be individual particles when they came in contact with something. If they release photons, it would be like a beam of energy, almost X-men style. Like the sun, only stretched out into a beam. If they reflect photons, it would look like a solid beam of any matter in the colour of the photon they reflect.

Well protons are probably too small to reflect light and I doubt they emmit any.

Originally posted by inimalist
it brings up the idea that anything firing a particle beam would have to be strong enough to withstand such heat/energy

And you probably wouldn't want to fire it next to someone you care about. Or inside a spaceship.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well protons are probably too small to reflect light and I doubt they emmit any.

then it would be invisible, though you might be onto something with how lightning looks.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And you probably wouldn't want to fire it next to someone you care about. Or inside a spaceship.

afaik. There is probably some critical mass where there are not enough particles being fired to effect someone standing X feet away, etc. But imho, there are probably few actual military uses of plasma, barring some type of indiscriminate siege device.

Though, since you are inventing it, you could always put a reflective device in the "barrel" of the gun that aligns all of the energy toward the target, but again, I'm no physicist.

Originally posted by inimalist
afaik. There is probably some critical mass where there are not enough particles being fired to effect someone standing X feet away, etc. But imho, there are probably few actual military uses of plasma, barring some type of indiscriminate siege device.

Though, since you are inventing it, you could always put a reflective device in the "barrel" of the gun that aligns all of the energy toward the target, but again, I'm no physicist.

I'll level with you. I'm basically going to steal the stats from GURPS (though I did buy the book legally) and then add in a few realistic drawbacks. The game doesn't describe what it would look like, though, so I'm trying to figure out something semi-realistic.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But probably in a vaccum.

Sort of. It's not a pure vacuum as there's still a significant portion of "atmosphere" in the TUUUUUUUUBES! (Sorry, I love saying the word "tubes".)

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm not sure what you mean by "as many colors as lightning". Like it would be bright white?

I think I remember the phrase "linear lightning" being used to describe either electro-lasers or particle beams.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/wea00/wea00008.htm

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But wouldn't it ionize the air sort of like lightning does? After all, electrons are too small to reflect light but we can still see the flash of lightning.

It's plasma I thought? Also, the ionized channel occurs before the lightning.

It would be very loud and bright blue and purple in color with a louder bang immediately after being fired.

Somewhat different question; why?

Blue/purple- high energy beam traveling at a speed that exceeds the speed of light locally (Cherenkov radiation). May have a white halo that degrades to lower energy colors as particles are annihilated if this is an antiparticle stream.

Loud sound-stream of particles breaking the sound barrier and (if antiparticles are part of the stream annihilating local matter.

Loud Sound after beam burst-Air rushing in to fill the vacuum left by particles and/or annihilated matter.

That's my thinking.

Sorry, I should have clarified. Why does SC want to know.

I think he's a super scientist building a classic 1960's death ray. The kind that comes out of a dome in a laboratory on a secret island.