Particle Beams

Originally posted by Bardock42
Somewhat different question; why?

I'm writing a story and want something better than a phaser, which might as well be magic.

Well if you want to be realistic about it, keep in mind that getting hit with something like this will be very gorey and horrible and that if it's a handheld thingy that has the energy to vaporize someone, the recoil is gonna send the shooter on three round trips around the planet.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm writing a story and want something better than a phaser, which might as well be magic.

How far into the future?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How far into the future?

when do humans discover magic?

Originally posted by inimalist
when do humans discover magic?

Originally posted by inimalist
when do humans discover magic?

As soon as we figured out how to make a flash light.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Well if you want to be realistic about it, keep in mind that getting hit with something like this will be very gorey and horrible and that if it's a handheld thingy that has the energy to vaporize someone, the recoil is gonna send the shooter on three round trips around the planet.

He said particle

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Well if you want to be realistic about it, keep in mind that getting hit with something like this will be very gorey and horrible and that if it's a handheld thingy that has the energy to vaporize someone, the recoil is gonna send the shooter on three round trips around the planet.

There's no reason I know of that the power can't be dialed down from the ones we use for experiments today. You don't have to vaporize someone to kill them.

Originally posted by One Free Man
If its truly a beam weapon it would have no recoil.

Protons have mass so presumably accelerating them to an enormous speed would result in recoil.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Does anyone know what it would look like if you fired a charged particle beam (let's say protons going at 99% the speed of light) in a Earth-like atmoshpere or what would happen so something it hit?

Alternately who could I ask to find out?

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1984/jul-aug/roberds.html

Maybe there's something useful there.

If you're writing a story about future-tech particle beams, why not give the beam a compound nature (since you brought up "phaser," I'm assuming we're talking at least 50-100 years). Some kind of annular containment field (say, to keep the beam from spreading). This way you could also technobabble any type of atmospheric/strike effect you want.

In any event, I would imagine a beam of great velocity/mass would punch through the air like a meteor moving at lightning speed. You'd get a plasma flash followed by thunder; and whatever it hit would react as if struck by a meteor or lightning.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The one physicist I know is bad at giving straight anwers.

Which is Scientific talk for "I don´t know but ll waffle on so you think I´m still clever anyway".

A Cathode ray is a charged particle beam also called an electron beam or e-beam, which is used in tube TV´s, so get an old TV, get the Cathode ray thing out and fire it up in your living room and see what happens🙂

Originally posted by Mindship
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1984/jul-aug/roberds.html

Maybe there's something useful there.

If you're writing a story about future-tech particle beams, why not give the beam a compound nature (since you brought up "phaser," I'm assuming we're talking at least 50-100 years). Some kind of annular containment field (say, to keep the beam from spreading). This way you could also technobabble any type of atmospheric/strike effect you want.

In any event, I would imagine a beam of great velocity/mass would punch through the air like a meteor moving at lightning speed. You'd get a plasma flash followed by thunder; and whatever it hit would react as if struck by a meteor or lightning.

I don't like the whole "force field" idea. I've got no problem with shows that use it but I find it hard to justify using in my own work.

That's a good link. I've checked on Atomic Rocket and Orion's Arm too. In general terms the result seems to be that a blaster would probably make the target explode and that it would look like a bolt of lightning. I'll switch from protons to electrons because it doesn't seem like there would be any effect on power and apparently an electron blaster will focus itself in an atmosphere.

Still can't find anything on the recoil. Working from GURPS: Ultra-Tech (which is more reliable than it sounds) the original design had almost no recoil but it makes sense for it to be massive because it's expelling a lot of energy very quickly in one direction. On the other hand the physics of normal recoil are more complicated than I thought: an M16 fires bullets with 1500ft/lb of force but recoils with just five.

This happened to a Russian scientist called Anatoli Bugorski.

He lent over a piece of equipment and the particle beam went through his head. He didn't die.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Still can't find anything on the recoil. Working from GURPS: Ultra-Tech (which is more reliable than it sounds) the original design had almost no recoil but it makes sense for it to be massive because it's expelling a lot of energy very quickly in one direction. On the other hand the physics of normal recoil are more complicated than I thought: an M16 fires bullets with 1500ft/lb of force but recoils with just five.

Then a hand-carried weapon of the future, sophisticated enough to fire a substantial particle beam, should (I would think) have phenomenal recoil absorption, especially if it's a smart weapon.

What's your power source?

Originally posted by Mindship
Then a hand-carried weapon of the future, sophisticated enough to fire a substantial particle beam, should (I would think) have phenomenal recoil absorption, especially if it's a smart weapon.

What's your power source?

Some sort of high energy density capacitor.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Some sort of high energy density capacitor.

Idea for uniforms/body armor- a layer of interlacing nomex and kevlar strips outside, followed by a layer of ferrifluids that are connected to a layer of circuitry suspended in a non-Newtonian fluid with a layer of neoprene covering the skin. The inner fluid makes it impervious to all but the hardest impacts, the outer surface resists tearing, cold, and heat. putting current through the ferrifluid via the inner circuitry generates a magnetic field that offers limited protection to larger projectiles and particle and energy beams. The fluids in the uniform would also add weight to punches and kicks and absorb shocks such as recoil, falls, jumps from high places, etc greatly recuding stress on joints and bones.

Something like this could become reality in the next 50 years anyway.

The weapons could be powered by the field generated by the suit and be uniquely patterned to individual users.

Wouldnt that be too expensive for the Military to get paid for, at least en mass...?
(Look at the issues we have right now, with the troops being underequipped/underarmoured.)

Originally posted by Darth Jello
... suspended in a non-Newtonian fluid ...

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Wouldnt that be too expensive for the Military to get paid for...

They can use ketchup.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Idea for uniforms/body armor- a layer of interlacing nomex and kevlar strips outside, followed by a layer of ferrifluids that are connected to a layer of circuitry suspended in a non-Newtonian fluid with a layer of neoprene covering the skin. The inner fluid makes it impervious to all but the hardest impacts, the outer surface resists tearing, cold, and heat. putting current through the ferrifluid via the inner circuitry generates a magnetic field that offers limited protection to larger projectiles and particle and energy beams. The fluids in the uniform would also add weight to punches and kicks and absorb shocks such as recoil, falls, jumps from high places, etc greatly recuding stress on joints and bones.

Something like this could become reality in the next 50 years anyway.

The weapons could be powered by the field generated by the suit and be uniquely patterned to individual users.

This brings back memories.

When I was a lad, I theorized of a full body, body armor. The body armor would be filled with a non-newtonian fluid, engineered to only become a "solid" at certain sheer forces, allowing flexibility, while providing awesome bullet proofing. The "space" would have an interlaced grid of a durable solid, like Kevlar. That way, when the bullet impacted, the kevler would create a larger "impact volume" and solidify in a large area, absorbing more of the bullet's kinetic energy, lessening or even eliminating the impact on the individual. (Despite soem vests being bullet proof, the wearer will sometimes end up with large-painful bruises...that's the basis of that idea.)

Here's why my idea was stupid (I was young and ignorant, cut me some slack, lol): I didn't take into consideration that the fluid would all flow to the bottom of the suit. I didn't consider the temperature comfort of the wearer (cause that would likely get hot.). And even if I compartmentalized the suit, wouldn't the compartments create points of failure in protection? (A weak spot, if you may. On top of that, if a hole forms, one compartment will flow into the other, creating another weak spot.) I guess I could remedy this with a fluid density differential, on a function of height. The most dense at the bottom, and the least dense at the top. Would it mix as the solidier ran? It'd depend on the fluid, really.

Also, I think you meant magnetorheological fluid, not ferrofluid. I could be wrong and I'm missing it.

The fluid could be stored in like, 100 individual chambers with the material separating them being a weakness of the suit.

The Ferrofluid would be the other weakness considering that if it was stimulated by an outside powerful field while the personal field was off, the fluid could literally spike right through the users chest. I guess it could act as a programmable shock absorber too.