Spider-Man vs Wolverine Villains (with twist)

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Spider-man gave God a good advice 🙂

Brand New Day story arc.

Spoiler:
It's where he made a deal with Mephisto to save Aunt May's life in exchange, he'd lose a bunch of his abilities, and he lost MJ's love. Now they're no longer together, he's not as powerful as he used to be and Aunt May is still old as crap. Lots of spidey grew upset because it undid a lot of Spider-Man stories, like Norman Osborn no longer being dead and everyone forgetting Spidey's secret identity since he made it public during the Civil War arc.

Now I'm not sure if you didn't know what Brand New Day was, or if you just weren't sure what BND stood for.

If Peter didn't make that deal, aunt May wouldn't have sex with Jameson' father! 😂

Originally posted by TheKahn
Brand New Day. It follows One More Day were

Spoiler:
Spiderman and MJ made a deal with Mephisto

😘

yeah it came to my mind after I've posted but tbh there's not much left from that event except that he and MJ don't know each other, I mean all the stuff seems to be altered and not retconned (However that is possible...) for example: the clone saga still happend because it's again in the comics with the complete history etc. So I hope Marvel in a way retconned the retcon without mentioning it.

Retconned = altered OR erased 🙂

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Retconned = altered OR erased 🙂

Oh 😆 I always thought that it means they totally take away what happend but yeah now that I think about it you're right 😛

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Not canon.

Everyone content?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It wasn't? Ah well, doesn't matter. He has dodged lightning before though. I could just revert to lasers, which he dodges fine with or without SS and those travel just at light speed.

Everyone content?

I have that comic somewhere. Marvel Adventures Spider-Man. Another universe.

Do you have a scan showing Spider-Man just standing here in a non-dodging position while the lightning bolt is reaching him and the next panel showing him dodging it? If not, then we have to assume it was aim-dodging.

Anyhow, lasers arguably job to high street lvs/low metas even more than bullets. I'd be interested to see some scans with Spidey (aim)dodging them with his SS turned off, though.

They'd travel at light speed only in vacuum awesome

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I have that comic somewhere. Marvel Adventures Spider-Man. Another universe.

Do you have a scan showing Spider-Man just standing here in a non-dodging position while the lightning bolt is reaching him and the next panel showing him dodging it? If not, then we have to assume it was aim-dodging.

Anyhow, lasers arguably job to high street lvs/low metas even more than bullets. I'd be interested to see some scans with Spidey (aim)dodging them with his SS turned off, though.

They'd travel at light speed only in vacuum awesome

But that's how lightning works, it's there one second and then it isn't? He obviously wouldn't see it if Storm fired it at him. I have been trying to explain for years what aim dodging was, and some people finally get it.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But you miss my point, it's all jobbing really. I was just using that same "bullets and lasers" dodging argument back. I don't believe that any non Flash character could dodge one.

But that's how lightning works, it's there one second and then it isn't? He obviously wouldn't see it if Storm fired it at him. I have been trying to explain for years what aim dodging was, and some people finally get it.

Ah. Sorry, I was too lazy to read previous posts.

Thing is, Gorgon's speed impressed Wolverine. And Elektra. And Secret Warriors. This is the way he's written. On average he's faster than Peter.

He would see the gesture, though.

Wolverine dodged Living Lightning with a smile on his face 😖hifty:

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Ah. Sorry, I was too lazy to read previous posts.

Thing is, Gorgon's speed impressed Wolverine. And Elektra. And Secret Warriors. This is the way he's written. On average he's faster than Peter.

He would see the gesture, though.

Wolverine dodged Living Lightning with a smile on his face 😖hifty:

Spiderman is more of an acrobat than anything, Gorgon uses his speed on the ground. Our opinions just differ on the matter.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think their speed is quite close but utilized differently. I can be impressed by an infants scribble drawing, but that isn't concrete enough. Obviously Spiderman has a much bigger career using speed, and has impressed a longer list of people. To me that is kinda a cheap way of arguing though. Which is why I take feats *and* characterization into consideration in these.

Spiderman is more of an acrobat than anything, Gorgon uses his speed on the ground. Our opinions just differ on the matter.

Bad choice of words. They were shocked and getting their asses handed to them.

Yes, a much bigger career. That means a lot of low and mediocre showings which need to be taken into consideration, too... so we can know on what average level he operates. And that average level is way below Gorgon if you ask me.

So, in other words - Spidey's more agile, but Gorgon has better combat speed? 😉

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Bad choice of words. They were shocked and getting their asses handed to them.

Yes, a much bigger career. That means a lot of low and mediocre showings which need to be taken into consideration, too... so we can know on what average level he operates. And that average level is way below Gorgon if you ask me.

So, in other words - Spidey's more agile, but Gorgon has better combat speed? 😉

Well that's just it, if someone has a relatively short career without many showings it is easy to say they are high showings. You have to look at characters, Gorgon being a villain goes up against teams? How many times has Spiderman gone against teams? Against much higher level characters than Gorgon and left the fight untouched. What about character? How he holds back, and doubts himself? How he has dodged lasers from Iron Man at point blank? What about Civil war when he blitzes characters without them reacting when he *wants* to? Of course you also have FF and secret wars, where Nightcrawler was shocked.

We used stats currently and it was in Spiderman's favor, but I felt that was unfair to use alone, feats might be too, characterization has to be taken into consideration as well.

You are probably right with more on handspeed considering Gorgon is more trained in using that area with weapons, but Spiderman's handspeed is totally different and he moves his body differently. Faster in different ways perhaps?

Nice talk, but I have to go, or I'll never get anything done, later for now. 🙂

Keep in mind I'm not saying he takes Gorgon for the majority in a normal fight either as well. 😉 Just saying. 😛

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So now we go back to using stats when they work for us and not when they don't? I'll keep that in mind with Wolverine.

Ok... current stats... not saying I agree with everything presented but it doesn't seem *too* bad.

Spiderman:
http://marvel.com/universe/Spider-Man_%28Peter_Parker%29

Gorgon:
http://marvel.com/universe/Gorgon_%28Tomi_Shishido%29

Has Spiderman higher at current.

But using the typical "feat" argument, his feats don't triump Spiderman's at all.

But on my opinion, I think it is really close, Gorgon and Spiderman utilize different movements. Spiderman is more air based than Gorgan and more acrobatic, where Gorgon is more ground based.

You cant use marvel stats, its all jacked up. It has gladiator stats higher than galactus.

Use Peters stats from the marvel handbook and it has him listed as a 3. Even without using that, we have Wolverine saying that he never faced anyone this fast AND saying that no one is that fast (and wolverine has faced spiderman). Then we have Elektra saying the same thing.

Gorgon is MUCH faster than peter, MUCH, faster, and in a fight, peter might wouldnt make it past two panels.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Nothing Spiderman has done, and really when an opponent first sees someone that typically happens, like even when Spiderman fights a "slower" opponent. I'd argue someone like Carnage being faster.

Well that's just it, if someone has a relatively short career without many showings it is easy to say they are high showings. You have to look at characters, Gorgon being a villain goes up against teams? How many times has Spiderman gone against teams? Against much higher level characters than Gorgon and left the fight untouched. What about character? How he holds back, and doubts himself? How he has dodged lasers from Iron Man at point blank? What about Civil war when he blitzes characters without them reacting when he *wants* to? Of course you also have FF and secret wars, where Nightcrawler was shocked.

We used stats currently and it was in Spiderman's favor, but I felt that was unfair to use alone, feats might be too, characterization has to be taken into consideration as well.

You are probably right with more on handspeed considering Gorgon is more trained in using that area with weapons, but Spiderman's handspeed is totally different and he moves his body differently. Faster in different ways perhaps?

Nice talk, but I have to go, or I'll never get anything done, later for now. 🙂

Keep in mind I'm not saying he takes Gorgon for the majority in a normal fight either as well. 😉 Just saying. 😛

C-Masters, its pretty obvious that gorgon is faster than Spidey and just as strong, if not, stronger.

Originally posted by carver9
You cant use marvel stats, its all jacked up. It has gladiator stats higher than galactus.

Use Peters stats from the marvel handbook and it has him listed as a 3. Even without using that, we have Wolverine saying that he never faced anyone this fast AND saying that no one is that fast (and wolverine has faced spiderman). Then we have Elektra saying the same thing.

Gorgon is MUCH faster than peter, MUCH, faster, and in a fight, peter might wouldnt make it past two panels.

Man, Spiderman has said Wolverine is faster than he, and then said nobody is faster, Wolverine has said Spiderman can break his neck, Spiderman has said he's 40x faster than a human. People always say things.

What about Civil War? Secret Wars, blah blah blah... same old thing.

I'm nor arguing the two in head up normal fight, of course he loses, the thread stips do allow him a minute chance though, was all I was saying.

What strength feats do Gorgon have beyond Spiderman (refresh my memory).

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spiderman has superhuman speed not enhanced, and those stats aren't perfect either, I thought you knew that...

Man, Spiderman has said Wolverine is faster than he, and then said nobody is faster, Wolverine has said Spiderman can break his neck, Spiderman has said he's 40x faster than a human. People always say things.

What about Civil War? Secret Wars, blah blah blah... same old thing.

I'm nor arguing the two in head up normal fight, of course he loses, the thread stips do allow him a minute chance though, was all I was saying.

What strength feats do Gorgon have beyond Spiderman (refresh my memory).

I know Spiderman has Super human speed but again, we are talking about a guy that moves faster than the speed of thought and someone that slaps bullets out of the airl like he was playing base ball.

I know what people say but when everyone that face gorgon say this "there is no one that fast", its pretty obvious that his speed is on a different level, especially if he blitz a speedster.

Civil War, Secret wars, nothing in there proving that Spiderman is even a notch close to what gorgon is.

Well, we have gorgon running through both Elektra and Wolverine at the same time EASILY. Then we have gorgon STOMPING elektra, actually toying with her, without her even landing a lick, and yet again, he did it easily.

Spiderman might need a 3rd party, especially if gorgon has his blades. I can see spidey trying to bounce at gorgon and with gorgon speed, he just turn around and cut spiderman in half.

Originally posted by carver9
I know Spiderman has Super human speed but again, we are talking about a guy that moves faster than the speed of thought and someone that slaps bullets out of the airl like he was playing base ball.

I know what people say but when everyone that face gorgon say this "there is no one that fast", its pretty obvious that his speed is on a different level, especially if he blitz a speedster.

Civil War, Secret wars, nothing in there proving that Spiderman is even a notch close to what gorgon is.

Well, we have gorgon running through both Elektra and Wolverine at the same time EASILY. Then we have gorgon STOMPING elektra, actually toying with her, without her even landing a lick, and yet again, he did it easily.

Spiderman might need a 3rd party, especially if gorgon has his blades. I can see spidey trying to bounce at gorgon and with gorgon speed, he just turn around and cut spiderman in half.

He's not going to win the featwar using your logic. But again I'm arguing webbing, and where are the strength feats?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You sure about those speed feats. Blitzing several characters at once, Thor, etc etc...

He's not going to win the featwar using your logic. But again I'm arguing webbing, and where are the strength feats?

Wasnt those clones and if we are using thor then I could easily bring up Wolverine blitzing Thor recently and Thor mentioning that Wolverine is to fast.

Spiderman bouncing around gorgon would get him dropped fast. very fast. Its not a safe tactic to use against someone like him.

So you dont thiink gorgon could EASILY dodge webbing and lets not forget, gorgon is a telepath, he'll know Spidermans every move before he does it.

I cant argue on the strength feats, so I'm going to leave that alone.

Precog helps Spiderman, and Thor is obviously not a good showing logically, but whoring on feats Spiderman proved that Thor couldn't see him. Also you have Firelord (I know it isn't a good showing but going by this logic it works).

Anyways Gorgon has done neither of those right? You realize it takes more precision to actually shoot a bullet with web *and* stop it in midair? He sees them ins low motion.

Webbing is slower, but it isn't the same as a bullet because it is consistent and like a flame or water, one limb is all that is needed, you have two spinners and he is quite good with them able to web buildings and bridges rather fast.

He's bounced around Venom and Carnage, and they would wreck Spiderman. But nevertheless, my point is the webbing can work, I don't see why you are making my argument more than what it is.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Precog helps Spiderman, and Thor is obviously not a good showing logically, but whoring on feats Spiderman proved that Thor couldn't see him. Also you have Firelord (I know it isn't a good showing but going by this logic it works).

Anyways Gorgon has done neither of those right? You realize it takes more precision to actually shoot a bullet with web *and* stop it in midair? He sees them ins low motion.

Webbing is slower, but it isn't the same as a bullet because it is consistent and like a flame or water, one limb is all that is needed, you have two spinners and he is quite good with them able to web buildings and bridges rather fast.

He's bounced around Venom and Carnage, and they would wreck Spiderman. But nevertheless, my point is the webbing can work, I don't see why you are making my argument more than what it is.

LOL 😆 , my bad.

What I'm arguing against is that webbing isnt going to touch gorgon; hes to fast for that.

Him bouncing around venom and carnage means nothing. Wolverine has bounced around venom on plenty of occasions, they dont use there speed like wolvy and spidey.

The moral of my story is Gorgon OWNED wolverine and elektra at the same time. Gorgon OWNED elektra without her even landing a lick. Gorgon CRUSHED wolverine and embarrassed him every time they faced. Then we have EVERYONE that Gorgon fought saying that no one is that fast and these are people that seen and fought against/with some of the most powerful/fastest people on marvel earth.

Spiderman along with whomever his other partner would get STOMPED by gorgon. Then if you add him being a telepath, knowing spidermans every move, its a complete massacre.