Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Charlie stopped a hail of bullets, shot fire comets at bitches, her TK is pretty uber. How can we determine who's TK is stronger? Pretty sure Charlie had her father's mind control too, didn't she?Did DP use her TK on that same level, stopping a hail of bullets? It's been a while since I watched X2.
I know DP did that floaty-tornado-psycho attack on Xavier and destroyed him, but maybe Charlie's pyro TK can withstand it?
Jean stopped a massive rush of water when the dam broke, iirc, she also lifted the X-jet while holding back the torrent. Stopping a bunch of bullets doesn't compare; this was Jean not fully in DP-mode.
Her DP feats include stopping a bunch of the syringe-bullets, disintegrating scores of people instantly, ripping the shit out of the Bunker-base and beating/killing Xavier at mind control.
IMO, Charlie would be overwhelmed by DP's power, quickly too.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I wonder how much Xavier resisted her.
Just enough to transfer his mind into a vegetable. No more, no less.
Whilst DP's powers are stronger than Xavier's, at a primal raw level, Xavier can use his powers much more intelligently and, is therefore, the long term winner in that little battle.
In other words, who is alive and who is dead? Exactly.
Charles is weaker than DP on the surface, but Charles is much more intelligent than DP/Jean.
Originally posted by RobtardStopping .50 cal machine gun fire trumps stopping syringe bullets.Her DP feats include stopping a bunch of the syringe-bullets, disintegrating scores of people instantly, ripping the shit out of the Bunker-base and beating/killing Xavier at mind control.
IMO, Charlie would be overwhelmed by DP's power, quickly too.
The building was just that, a building. Charlie launched three comets into a big ass house and blew it to shit, one of the comets launched a guy 50 feet up into a tree.
I'm going with Charlie here.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Stopping .50 cal machine gun fire trumps stopping syringe bullets.The building was just that, a building. Charlie launched three comets into a big ass house and blew it to shit, one of the comets launched a guy 50 feet up into a tree.
I'm going with Charlie here.
Not so fast, RJ.
If DP can move an entire lake, the force per square inch applied on a plane, should be far greater than the repelling force required of Charlie to block bullets. (Charlie's can be shown to be a plane, as well...more on this in a second.)
It will take me some time to calculate, but, I would just have to figure out the "equal and opposite" force required to stop bullets in motion (just figure out the bullets force/energy)...and some other complicated stuff. Then, pretend Charlie is applying that force in a ~cylindrical (It'd be a half sphere at the top of the "cylinder", so it would be (4*pi*r^2)2 + ((pi*r^)+(2*pi*r*height)) to come up with the total surface area...well...I guess we don't even need the bottom of the sphere, so it would be (4*pi*r^2)2 + (2*pi*r*height))) surface area, then compare that to the force by unit of area required to hold up all of that lake BS, and compare the two numbers to see which one is greater. Of course, on the lake portion, we'd have to guess as to the volume/surface area, and do some rough estimates on the forces required (the higher the water, the more force that would be required at the bottom....ugh..this could get complicated)
But, someone has to figure out of DP's flame thingie is actually real flames (making it matter and, therefore, most likely to be blocked by Charlie's "shields.), or not flames at all but an energy...meaning that Charlie won't be able to block it.
If that can be established, we can move on with the thread.
If it cannot, there's not point to this thread as no winner could ever clearly be figured out. The argument would come down to, "It can too!" "No it can't!" "It can too!" "No it can't!". bla bla bla.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I wonder how much Xavier resisted her.
He was fighting for his life.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Stopping .50 cal machine gun fire trumps stopping syringe bullets.The building was just that, a building. Charlie launched three comets into a big ass house and blew it to shit, one of the comets launched a guy 50 feet up into a tree.
I'm going with Charlie here.
Like I said repeatedly now, she also stopped a super-massive torrent of water, that is far about the force of bullets. Ignoring it won't change anything.
That's a faulty comparison, we're talking about TK, not pyrotechnics.
Ignorant to do so, comparing the total output of both seen on screen.
Originally posted by Robtard
He was fighting for his life.Like I said repeatedly now, she also stopped a super-massive torrent of water, that is far about the force of bullets. Ignoring it won't change anything.
That's a faulty comparison, we're talking about TK, not pyrotechnics.
Ignorant to do so, comparing the total output of both seen on screen.
Yeah, and at the end he seemed resigned to be pwned.
I'm not ignoring the water. I just see a TK attack as being harder to stop.
Problem here is DP is a class 6 mutant (6, right? Isn't that like the uber ones, 6?), and for all we know Charlie is a class 6 also. There's no ranking system in Charlie's world.
Yeah, we're talking about TK, which Charlie clearly has in spades.
Charlie is not just a firestarter, she had telepathy, mental domination, and precog. Total output? Charlie didn't kill as many people, but she displayed the ability to do so if she so chose. If there had been a thousand people there trying to kill her, there would have been 1000 flaming corpses. Not to mention destroying the mansion matches DP destroying the building.
Originally posted by dadudemon
But, someone has to figure out of DP's flame thingie is actually real flames (making it matter and, therefore, most likely to be blocked by Charlie's "shields.), or not flames at all but an energy...meaning that Charlie won't be able to block it.
People turn to ash, so it stands to reason it's some sort of heat, but there's never a flame or fire that I can recall.
She also does the similar 'turn to ash' to heavy metal doors, yet they don't show sign of heating up, so it stands to reason there is no heat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj-a67DeGUQ
So we have ash, but we have no flames or signs of actual heat. My guess, would be that her powers are not pyro in nature she's just able to use her TK at the molecular level.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, and at the end he seemed resigned to be pwned.I'm not ignoring the water. I just see a TK attack as being harder to stop.
Problem here is DP is a class 6 mutant (6, right? Isn't that like the uber ones, 6?), and for all we know Charlie is a class 6 also. There's no ranking system in Charlie's world.
Yeah, we're talking about TK, which Charlie clearly has in spades.
Charlie is not just a firestarter, she had telepathy, mental domination, and precog.
Probably has something to do with the Dark Phoenix and figthing it nonsense.
DP obviously the stronger with telekinesis going by feats, so it'd be Charlie fighting to stop the great TK attack.
Correct, this is why we use movie feats; DP has the greater ones. Charlie burns a person here and there, DP turns scores of people to Ash. Charlies fires a couple of fireballs into a barn, DP demolishes/disintegrates a large complex.
No, Charlie is not better with telekinesis, not even close. She's the better pyrotechnic, as I don't think DP is at all.
I agree Charlie is a beast, DP still showed greater overall telekinesis(the water) and mental capabilities(overpowering Xavier).
edit: I also think when Charlie stopped the bullets, it was some sort of heat-shield she put up. Could be wrong, haven't watched that film in ages.
Originally posted by Robtard
Probably has something to do with the Dark Phoenix and figthing it nonsense.DP obviously the stronger with telekinesis going by feats, so it'd be Charlie fighting to stop the great TK attack.
Correct, this is why we use movie feats; DP has the greater ones. Charlie burns a person here and there, DP turns scores of people to Ash. Charlies fires a couple of fireballs into a barn, DP demolishes/disintegrates a large complex.
No, Charlie is not better with telekinesis, not even close. She's the better pyrotechnic, as I don't think DP is at all.
I agree Charlie is a beast, DP still showed greater overall telekinesis(the water) and mental capabilities(overpowering Xavier).
edit: I also think when Charlie stopped the bullets, it was some sort of heat-shield she put up. Could be wrong, haven't watched that film in ages.
Charlie did much more than "fire a coupla fireballs into a barn", she took out a big ass mansion, not to mention the helicopter. The helicopter attack was a bit odd. She concentrates on it, the lights go out, then it implodes. It seemed out of control also, or maybe that was the result of the pilots nuts being on fire.
You're funny. DP was surrounded by soldiers and mutants, so she killed them. What you are saying is that since Charlie did not have the same number of targets, she is inferior. Funny. Charlie likely would have caused the same amount of damage that DP caused on he island had she been there.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, and up until the point where he was killed, how was he resisting her?Charlie did much more than "fire a coupla fireballs into a barn", she took out a big ass mansion, not to mention the helicopter. The helicopter attack was a bit odd. She concentrates on it, the lights go out, then it implodes. It seemed out of control also, or maybe that was the result of the pilots nuts being on fire.
You're funny. DP was surrounded by soldiers and mutants, so she killed them. What you are saying is that since Charlie did not have the same number of targets, she is inferior. Funny. Charlie likely would have caused the same amount of damage that DP caused on he island had she been there.
With his telepathy, as that's his power.
Overall, Charlie's feats weren't as powerful though.
Well that's how the "movie feats" rule works, you know that. I could easily just as say "DP could take out everyone in China, if she was there", but that would be foolish, as what you're implying with Charlie.
Originally posted by RobtardAnd you can somehow prove his Telepathy is more powerful than Charlie's? She inherited her fathers abilities, man, telepathy and mental domination. Read the link I posted.
With his telepathy, as that's his power.Overall, Charlie's feats weren't as powerful though.
Well, that's how the "movie feats" rule works. I could easily just as say "DP could take out everyone in China, if she was there", but that would be stupid, as what you're implying with Charlie.
No, DP caused more destruction because she had more to destroy, Charlie would have done the same.
And there still is no way to determine who is a stronger mutant, this whole "DP caused more damage" argument is flimsy at best. Charlie could have easily done what DP did on the island if she had been there. She could have blocked the syringe bullets, she could have killed all the mutants, and she could have destroyed the facility, she showed that type of power.
Asnwer this question: What was DP shown blocking with her TK shield?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And you can somehow prove his Telepathy is more powerful than Charlie's? She inherited her fathers abilities, man, telepathy and mental domination. Read the link I posted.No, DP caused more destruction because she had more to destroy, Charlie would have done the same.
And there still is no way to determine who is a stronger mutant, this whole "DP caused more damage" argument is flimsy at best. Charlie could have easily done what DP did on the island if she had been there. She could have blocked the syringe bullets, she could have killed all the mutants, and she could have destroyed the facility, she showed that type of power.
Asnwer this question: What was DP shown blocking with her TK shield?
Yes, by movie feats. Xavier affected an entire mall, froze tehe people and then altered all their memories, he did this in minutes.
Again, you're ignoring the rules in here and taking the "Charlie could do everything Dark Phoenix did", when she didn't. This will get you nowhere.
Don't recall her being attacked by anything physically except the syringe-guns. So that. Her TK was still shown to be far more powerful, see that video I posted; it's greater than what Charlie did.
Edit: My bad, I already brought this up, she blocked that super-massive wave of water, that would be her greatest "blocking" feat. Her other greater TK feat would be destroying the building and everything around her.
Answer my question, what was DP shown blocking with her TK?
It's stupid to think just because DP killed more that she is superior. More targets=More killing. DP had more targets, that's all.
So all DP blocked was the syringe guns? I see. Charlie blocked machine gun fire, dude. See how that works?
You can speculate all you want, but Charlie was shown BLOCKING on a level DP neevr did.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Answer my question, what was DP shown blocking with her TK?It's stupid to think just because DP killed more that she is superior. More targets=More killing. DP had more targets, that's all.
So all DP blocked was the syringe guns? I see. Charlie blocked machine gun fire, dude. See how that works?
You can speculate all you want, but Charlie was shown BLOCKING on a level DP neevr did.
No , no and no. Already covered this, first page and 2-3 times on this page. Charlie blocked bullets, DP blocked the water. DP's is far greater.
No it's not stupid, it's going by the movie feats rule. You're just deciding to ignore it again, because it suits your argument. You really going to do this again? The argument also isn't just "DP killed more", her feats are greater overall, killing, mind-****ing and destruction.
No, it's not speculation. Charlie wasn't shown doing greater. See above.
Originally posted by Robtard
No , no and no. Already covered this. Charlie blocked bullets, DP blocked the water. DP's is far greater.No it's not stupid, it's going by the movie feats rule. You're just deciding to ignore it again, because it suits your argument. You really going to do this again?
No, she wasn't. See above.
Oh well, I think blocking the water is different than blocking Charlie's fire comets, but that's just me. I haven't been ignoring the wall of water because IMO I see that as a Jean Grey feat, not a DP feat. Like force choke being a Vader feat, not an Anakin feat (again, IMO). She wasn't DP when she blocked the water, she was still Jean.
Again, that's just how I see it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oh well, I think blocking the water is different than blocking Charlie's fire comets, but that's just me. I haven't been ignoring the wall of water because IMO I see that as a Jean Grey feat, not a DP feat. Like force choke being a Vader feat, not an Anakin feat (again, IMO). She wasn't DP when she blocked the water, she was still Jean.Again, that's just how I see it.
She was the DP when she blocked it, you see her eyes flash. That was the point. Becoming the Dark Phoenix didn't take away from Jean's powers, she just realized her full potential, as per what Magneto and Xavier were talking about.
You should watch this video I posted. DP's level of wrecking shit and killing is far about the final battle in Fire Starter.
Yeah, I remember her eyes flashing red, but IMO she wasn't DP yet, she mighta been like on the verge, but that's it. Again, this is how I see it, that's all, no use arguing about it anymore.
DP's level of wrecking shit was on a grander scale because she had more people to kill, Rob, why do you constantly use body count as a measuring tool? You're insane if you think Charlie can't do what DP did. Might not have looked as cool, but it would have gotten done.
You think DP was holding back when she was trying to kill Logan?.