Heroes don't kill

So, I started re-reading the early issues of the current X-Factor series, and the Madrox Limited before that, recently. And, having read the mini and only the first 12 issues of the series, every member of the team except Monet and Siryn have killed someone. Madrox slit a guy's throat with a playing card, Wolfsbane murdered an astral projection, Rictor hung a man in a theater, Layla set up an electrocution and tried to kill Quicksilver, and Guido karate chopped a guy's throat in. And NOBODY CARES. There is no remorse beyond a one-panel recap, and there are no lasting effects on the characters for what is widely held, at least in the comic community, as something that is utterly reprehensible and unable to "come back" from. Shit, Rahne's more upset about a future vision of killing Madrox and Layla than about having killed a quadriplegic.

On that note, I'm wondering what other hero-murders have occurred with little or no consequence. Wonder Woman's world-saving killing of Max Lord caused a huge stink in the JLA, but was largely forgotten until just recently.

So, who else got away with it?

Wolverine always gets away with it, he's a hero and he's killed alotta people, before and even whilst he was a hero

Originally posted by steverules_2
Wolverine always gets away with it, he's a hero and he's killed alotta people, before and even whilst he was a hero

Except during those Weapon X days he did'nt have a choice they brainwashed him.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Except during those Weapon X days he did'nt have a choice they brainwashed him.

Thats why I added the before bit...because that was before he was a hero 🙂 I remember his weapon X days, I am a wolverine fan...but not a fan boy who thinks he could beat superman which fan boys believe he could do 😬

The really interesting one is Captain America- He's the embodiement of American values.....

....In other words he doesn't mind using a gun 😛

This is what I've been saying all along, Marvel has no control here. There's no dividing line between the heroes who'll gladly eat the corpses of villains and the ones that do not kill. Wolverine has chopped up countless people throughout the years. Imagine how many random guards he has killed in his time, I highly doubt the guy who's chillin outside a facility is the lord of all evil....

When Barry snapped Zoom's neck, Wonder Woman also happened to try and vote him out of the Justice League haermm

Originally posted by willRules
The really interesting one is Captain America- He's the embodiement of American values.....

....In other words he doesn't mind using a gun 😛

We talking Bucky or Steve? I dont recall steve using a gun...Bucky on the other hand...

You're not stating the difference between killing and murdering.

DC went way over the top with Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord - an entirely justifiable act that was neccessary.

Captain America (Steve Rogers) of course tries not to kill if he can, but it's not like he has no deaths at his hands - see WW2.

The world the Mutant community lives in is not like any other in DC or Marvel, where there are powerful factions that hate them for simply existing. Theirs is a kill-or-be-killed world of survival.

And haven't we seen the Green Lantern Corps finally get authorization to use lethal force? Overdue in my opinion.

Saying Heroes don't kill is an oversimplification. Don't police officers sometimes kill in the line of duty?

Police officers aren't heroes.

Anyways, I agree with the points you bring up. Killing and murdering are different things. Because you can take a lot of lives simply by making bad decisions. Imagine how many people are sent into poverty/death by starvation or other things when heroes throw down? At least they acknowledged this in the Invincible comics.

Originally posted by steverules_2
We talking Bucky or Steve? I dont recall steve using a gun...Bucky on the other hand...

Either, both Bucky and Steve have used firearms and both have killed numerous soldiers ✅

the "heroes don't kill" mantra is something that's spread almost universally through comics, even in relation to characters [like punisher] who kill without giving a shit. he got his ass kicked by captain america because of that fact alone, he's fought spider-man because of it, etcetera. while it's not always practiced as it is preached, it's something of a golden rule in a majority of the superhero community.

the whole "are cops heroes?" thing is something i don't want to get into. police officers don't, or at least are never instructed to, "kill first, ask questions later." guns aren't drawn unless there is a threat, shots aren't fired unless the officer, a fellow officer, or a victim is in a directly threatened situation with a weapon or something similar. and the shots are almost always meant to disarm and end the situation without casualties. SWAT and the Feds and so forth, not exactly the same rules. same with soldiers. that's not what I'm talking about. i mean comic book superheroes.

back to my example, since we're making the distinction between murder and killing, which i suppose boils down to intentional v. unintentional. Madrox didn't mean to kill the guy, it happened on instinct. Rahne didn't mean to kill the guy, she was under attack. Rictor seemed to have meant to kill the guy, but it was in defending his own and Siryn's life. Layla obviously meant to kill the guy, and had seemingly no compunctions about attempting to set Quicksilver up to be killed as well. and Guido wasn't responsible for murdering Dr. Buchanan because he was in some sort of hypnotic/post-hypnotic state. but that doesn't mean those lives aren't lost due to their actions, and there is literally next-to-no reaction about this in the comics. where's this "hero's code" idea when nobody cares they're causing people to die, or outright killing them?

Cyclops rebooted x-force because "x-men don't kill," but House of M Cyke said "whatever rules you place on yourself, they have no place here," or something to that effect. he wanted the assembled heroes to kill Magneto's crew. he also killed Ugly John, a "mercy killing," in New X-Men. i'm sure i'm forgetting something there, too.

just seems like levels of hypocrisy and flip-flopping, and i just want to know who's done it, and if they've done it, who cared?

i believe as a rule heroes should kill...no im not saying i want any of my favorite heroes to develop a penchant for remorseless killin, but sometimes it is necessary. sometimes i wonder if batman realizes that whenever the joker breaks out of Arkham he racks up no less than a high 2-figure body count...and killer Croc eats at least 6 ppl..and Zzaaszz butchers a small handful of women and children..hmm...just saying.

now i know this is the part where everyone is gonna say that good guys need bad guys and if you kill all the bad guys its gonna be too hard to come up with bigger and better bad guys, but look at the Xmen...for years Xavier have been drumming into them that killing is wrong and "there is always another way" and "if we kill we are no better than they are." and as was shown in the intro of Vulcan he wasnt timid about manipulasting thier thoughts and feelings on a subconscious level...and where did that get them? whenever some anti mutant group/subversive govt. faction attacks the school no less than a dozen mutant kids get killed each time, then the best they can hope for is Kurt giving a Eulogy and Mccoy quoting shaksepeare...ppfftt

I think sometimes in comics, the ends justify the means? e.g. someone like Wolverine who murders hordes of mostly innocent guards, it is to stop the plan and get to the bad guy or whatever they are guarding although maybe sometimes the writers do get too trigger happy

Some villains are just so evil that the only way to deal with them is to kill them

Originally posted by steverules_2
Thats why I added the before bit...because that was before he was a hero 🙂 I remember his weapon X days, I am a wolverine fan...but not a fan boy who thinks he could beat superman which fan boys believe he could do 😬

No they don't. please I love to here of a current member who believes he beats superman...........come on name one.

THIS is what Wolverine fanboys do.

They have the mutant ability to turn every single thread into some kind of debate about the character.

He made a hyperbole-based comment about the nature of Wolverine fanboys, Battlehammer. He didn't insult your Father. Just...let it go. You are only proving why everyone hates Wolverine fanboys.

On topic: heroes do what heroes need to do. Deluded heroes don't kill. Batman would be a hypocrite to kill Joker, but so what? I'd take the many lives I'd save as a bonus.

-AC

Batman gets away with killing Darkside thanks to the horrendous writing of Grant Morrison.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
Batman gets away with killing Darkside thanks to the horrendous writing of Grant Morrison.

I like that part. Batman always tried to defeat the evil that killed his parents, he faught a war on crime/evil. Darkseid was the embodiment of all that he fights against and he beats him with a weapon that is similar to that responsible for his creation, a gun 😄.

Same thing almost happen in Infinite Crisis when Batsy pick up the gun and tried to kill Luthor from earth 2....however, Johns came to his sense and pull back....Morrison idiocy on the other hand....

Originally posted by Disappear
the "heroes don't kill" mantra is something that's spread almost universally through comics, even in relation to characters [like punisher] who kill without giving a shit. he got his ass kicked by captain america because of that fact alone, he's fought spider-man because of it, etcetera. while it's not always practiced as it is preached, it's something of a golden rule in a majority of the superhero community.

Dident Puniohser beat capt or was winning?

also capt would be a hypocrit no? I mena for one he killed people and to his best friend was an assassin.