Originally posted by -Pr-
i honestly just mean in terms of regret or guilt. none of which he's shown enough of during his time making these frankly appaling decisions.
Its possible to become numb to these sort of things and it could probably be explained that hes been conditioned to become that way.
in the eyes of more enthusiastic cyclops fans, and i mean no ill will with that categorization, having cyke become jaded to the "heroes don't kill, x-men don't kill" doctrine is just the same as if captain america made an avengers hit-squad. or superman. he's a boy scout, again not derogatory, and this drastic shift in his personality [though well-written] seems almost out-of-character. i'm all for it, not being the hardest of cyclops fans, and i prefer a more realistic, "noir" leaning in my characters. but i completely understand both sides of the argument.
Originally posted by WickedDynamite
or even overrated Mr. Sinister...how about them?
gtfo.
Originally posted by Deadline
Its possible to become numb to these sort of things and it could probably be explained that hes been conditioned to become that way.
becoming numb to it would be a distortion of the character, seeing as he's supposed to question every little thing he does.
what do you mean conditioned?
Originally posted by Disappear
in the eyes of more enthusiastic cyclops fans, and i mean no ill will with that categorization, having cyke become jaded to the "heroes don't kill, x-men don't kill" doctrine is just the same as if captain america made an avengers hit-squad. or superman. he's a boy scout, again not derogatory, and this drastic shift in his personality [though well-written] seems almost out-of-character. i'm all for it, not being the hardest of cyclops fans, and i prefer a more realistic, "noir" leaning in my characters. but i completely understand both sides of the argument.
that's the problem, though: it's not well written. it wasn't gradual. it just started out of the blue.
and you can be realistic without wanting to murder things.
Originally posted by -Pr-that's the problem, though: it's not well written. it wasn't gradual. it just started out of the blue.
and you can be realistic without wanting to murder things.
entirely understood. i've been veering away from x-men in the last few years, only really getting back into the main comics around the time of utopia x, and things like that. it seems, to a casual reader like me, that he's simply hit his limit. so few mutants, so many still dying, a lifetime of fighting for a dream that he is constantly seeing denied him. it's like when a movie cop turns dirty; dark and gritty and kind of cool but not anything that can last without the audience getting bored. it'll return to the status quo eventually, but for now, i'm enjoying the ride.
Originally posted by Disappear
entirely understood. i've been veering away from x-men in the last few years, only really getting back into the main comics around the time of utopia x, and things like that. it seems, to a casual reader like me, that he's simply hit his limit. so few mutants, so many still dying, a lifetime of fighting for a dream that he is constantly seeing denied him. it's like when a movie cop turns dirty; dark and gritty and kind of cool but not anything that can last without the audience getting bored. it'll return to the status quo eventually, but for now, i'm enjoying the ride.
and that's fair enough.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
How's it not a work in-progress?Did Eve of Destruction and New X-Men not happen? Seem to recall a fair share of increased aggression.
in new x-men he was disillusioned more than ever, but that changed when astonishing came along. he grew in to his role and grew with emma. he was actually in a good mindset before messiah complex.
Originally posted by -Pr-
in new x-men he was disillusioned more than ever, but that changed when astonishing came along. he grew in to his role and grew with emma. he was actually in a good mindset before messiah complex.
X-Force essentially ignores the effect Emma had Cyclops, in Astonishing and on.
Exactly.
I can see what Disappear is saying, but for those of us who spent ages thinking of Cyke as an obedient boy-scout, it's not an easy pill to swallow just to say: "Ok he's a bad-ass now and we accept that.".
It doesn't feel like he is believably bad-ass, just that someone's decided he is one.
-AC
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Point Paul.X-Force essentially ignores the effect Emma had Cyclops, in Astonishing and on.
i know, and that's the problem.
every so often cyclops has a defining arc that sets up the character for the next few years. he had it with simonsen in x-factor, he had it during the claremont/byrne run, and he had it during morrison's run.
the problem is that he had one during astonishing. he grew both as a person and as a leader. emma brought out sides to him he would have never shown jean.
yet he goes from that, to messiah complex, and then to today. it's against the entire point of the character.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Exactly.I can see what Disappear is saying, but for those of us who spent ages thinking of Cyke as an obedient boy-scout, it's not an easy pill to swallow just to say: "Ok he's a bad-ass now and we accept that.".
It doesn't feel like he is believably bad-ass, just that someone's decided he is one.
-AC
not an obedient boy scout. just a man with a clear set of ideals. he's going against them right now.
i don't even mind that he set up x-force. i don't mind that he's ordered people killed. it's the fact that he's so damn comfortable with all of it, and shows almost no remorse about it.
Originally posted by -Pr-becoming numb to it would be a distortion of the character, seeing as he's supposed to question every little thing he does.
what do you mean conditioned?
I don't know I think he started to gradually change. I saw hints of it in Uncany X-men were mutans were crucified outside the mansion. The cold ruthless Cyclops started to emerge. Stuff like that over time can make you cold and ruthless, thats what I mean by conditioned.