Death of Superman pt. II

In numerous fights involving Superman and characters such as Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, Thor, and others one major issue keeps coming up: can these characters exploit Superman's weaknesses in a fight? Many people say yes, while many Superman fans say a definitive no.

So the point of this thread is to get views on what level of magical firepower or energy manipulation does a character need to have to be able to win consistently against Superman with only those abilities.

Any thoughts?

Of course competent and high end energy/matter manipulators can exploit Superman weakness. The proff of this is the history of Superman being put down by such exploitations.

If you disagree your most likely Philosophia, Pr, and shokosugi.313wank

Originally posted by id369
Of course competent and high end energy/matter manipulators can exploit Superman weakness. The proff of this is the history of Superman being put down by such exploitations.

If you disagree your most likely Philosophia, Pr, and shokosugi.313wank

👆

Originally posted by id369
Of course competent and high end energy/matter manipulators can exploit Superman weakness. The proff of this is the history of Superman being put down by such exploitations.

If you disagree your most likely Philosophia, Pr, and shokosugi.313wank

i never said high end manipulators couldn't affect superman.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i never said high end manipulators couldn't affect superman.

So why doesn't the Silver Surfer take Superman down 10/10 in a fight? 😕

all it takes is a character with enough power to exploit superman's weaknesses + sufficient speed to carry out said attacks before superman can stop them.

Originally posted by Galan007
all it takes is a character with enough power to exploit superman's weaknesses + sufficient speed to carry out said attacks before superman can stop them.

You need:

1. power to exploit superman's weakness

2. speed to use said power before superman can counteract

3. predisposition to use such a tactic

I know of no character that can fulfill all 3.

All you need is a non jobbing Martian Manhunter

Surfer not only have the speed and the power, but can know what type of energy can affect him with his more than valuable Cosmic Awarness

Originally posted by Starscream M
nope. you're missing one more thing.

You need:

1. power to exploit superman's weakness

2. speed to use said power before superman can counteract

3. predisposition to use such a tactic

I know of no character that can fulfill all 3.

Originally posted by TheKahn
So why doesn't the Silver Surfer take Superman down 10/10 in a fight? 😕

because he's still vulnerable to a punch in the jaw. and is a worse tactician.

unless you mean with weakness exploitation, which in that case, yes, surfer should win every time.

I'd say Superman's solar reserve is somewhat harder to mess with than, say, Banner's gamma radiation too. People who control solar power can't just yank it out of him or anything.

Originally posted by Q99
I'd say Superman's solar reserve is somewhat harder to mess with than, say, Banner's gamma radiation too. People who control solar power can't just yank it out of him or anything.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Didn't Doctor Light do something on that level? Triumph too.
Also this is kind of off topic but does anyone know what issue it was where a vampire (I think its actually Dracula) bites Superman in the neck but immediately burst into flames because Superman is a living solar battery?

Superman 180.

Also, Triumph is the exception, not the rule. After Infinite Crisis, Superman lived powerless for a year after having the yellow sun energy driven from his body.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Didn't Doctor Light do something on that level? Triumph too.
Also this is kind of off topic but does anyone know what issue it was where a vampire (I think its actually Dracula) bites Superman in the neck but immediately burst into flames because Superman is a living solar battery?

I think Doctor Light only yanked out his heat vision (or rather, Conner's). I don't think he's ever yanked out a kryptonian's solar reserve.

Triumph... well, not in the JLA story with the genies at least, there they fought physically. That's the only time I've read him so I can't speak for the other story with him.

Superman has overcame his weakness one more then one occasion. With that said, I don't see why people just jump to conclusion thinking Superman will lose to anyone who can exploit his weakness. Many also seem to forget that not all characters gun for your weakness and continue to apply it. Yes, it would make sense, but history for all comic character shows that they are that much of smocks.

Relying only on weakness exploitation, one would have to be a sufficiently powerful Herald character, IMO. The reason why some people give nods to Surfer, Thor, and CM over Superman isn't simply because of their ability to weakness exploit Superman; the fact that they can do that in addition to their other abilities which are on par or nearly so to Superman's own (ie. speed, strength, durability, etc).

Besides the fact that Superman is steadily getting to the point where his weaknesses are no longer detrimental to the point of being fatal as they once were, it's going to take more than only relying on plain kryptonite, magic, or red sun/deprivation of yellow sun, to beat him.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman 180.

Also, Triumph is the exception, not the rule. After Infinite Crisis, Superman lived powerless for a year after having the yellow sun energy driven from his body.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Relying only on weakness exploitation, one would have to be a sufficiently powerful Herald character, IMO. The reason why some people give nods to Surfer, Thor, and CM over Superman isn't simply because of their ability to weakness exploit Superman; the fact that they can do that in addition to their other abilities which are on par or nearly so to Superman's own (ie. speed, strength, durability, etc).

Besides the fact that Superman is steadily getting to the point where his weaknesses are no longer detrimental to the point of being fatal as they once were, it's going to take more than only relying on plain kryptonite, magic, or red sun/deprivation of yellow sun, to beat him.

Originally posted by Starscream M
nope. you're missing one more thing.

You need:

1. power to exploit superman's weakness

2. speed to use said power before superman can counteract

3. predisposition to use such a tactic

I know of no character that can fulfill all 3.

Assuming Superman is just standing there doing nothing.

I think an amalgam of Captain Marvel (DC), Silver Surfer and Classic Dr. Strange can defeat Superman.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Assuming Superman is just standing there doing nothing.

I think an amalgam of Captain Marvel (DC), Silver Surfer and Classic Dr. Strange can defeat Superman.

Any one of them can beat him on their own without weakness exploitation, IMO.