Even if a plasma rifle doesn't do the damage to a droid that a laser blast would, the Elite's intelligence, accuracy, and strength would make it a more dangerous opponent than a Clonetrooper. Then there's the swords.
And the CIS droids numbered in the Quintillions. Last I played the Halo games, the Flood weren't in their glory days during their war with the Forerunners--their numbers are comparatively small, and Infections mean shite against machines.
Originally posted by Ms.MarvelThe Covenant taking down the CIS? Unlikely. Quintillions of battle droids produced quickly and cheaply. I believe Gideon quoted millions of ships. Speed is in SW's favour by s long-shot. And considering that a metal projectile from the MAC gun aboard ODPs can penetrate clear through a Covenant capital ship, and Longsword conventional ordnance blasts hole in said ships, SW's laser technology won't have many problems.
i agree with you i hadnt thought of that. hell they wouldnt even be able to create combat forms without hosts.so yeah the flood would probably get decimated by the cis. i think the covenant could take them down though.
according to traviss there were only three million clones throughout the entirety of the clone wars. so unless 99% of the cis' army was not used in the war that would mean that the clones were fighting and winning battles in which they were outnumbered by trillions to one odds...
considering that the covenant army is about a million times larger in size (they number in the billions) and use superior combat tech on the ground, id say that they could win pretty much any ground engagement without much difficulty.
as for the ships, im of the opinion that halo technology is not that inferior compared to star wars technology. im aware that there are some obscene numbers in regards to the power sources in SW tech, but in the end imperial star destroyers were being utterly annihilated by asteroids in ESB, and a fleet was damaged to the point where they could no longer function by the kinetic energy created from being force pushed several thousand miles.
considering that a MAC round travels at 50% of the speed of light and creates more energy than the entire arsenal of nukes on our planet at the time, id say that it could probably one-shot any vessel in halo or star wars except for maybe the sun crusher.
Originally posted by Ms.MarvelHence the ridicule she's endured. But the numbers, despite the absurdity, stick.
according to traviss there were only three million clones throughout the entirety of the clone wars. so unless 99% of the cis' army was not used in the war that would mean that the clones were fighting and winning battles in which they were outnumbered by trillions to one odds...
Originally posted by Ms.MarvelDefinitely, SW ground units are either too small or too slow. Even with superior weapons, Wraiths, Ghosts, Locusts etc. move too fast. What the CIS have is fire-rate and overwhelming numbers.
considering that the covenant army is about a million times larger in size (they number in the billions) and use superior combat tech on the ground, id say that they could win pretty much any ground engagement without much difficulty.
Originally posted by Ms.MarvelA massive, multi-billion ton asteroid hurtling through space would obliterate any ship from anywhere. And Dorsk 81's Force push wasn't measured in thousands of miles, it was measured in billions. He tossed Pellaeon's ships out of the star system. The fact that they weren't shredded by that is testament their structural integrity.
as for the ships, im of the opinion that halo technology is not that inferior compared to star wars technology. im aware that there are some obscene numbers in regards to the power sources in SW tech, but in the end imperial star destroyers were being utterly annihilated by asteroids in ESB, and a fleet was damaged to the point where they could no longer function by the kinetic energy created from being force pushed several thousand miles.
Originally posted by Ms.MarvelAccording to beloved Halopedia, the MAC gun on the Orbital Defense Platform could put a hole clear through a Covenant capital ship. "They are the only non-nuclear weapons in the UNSC arsenal capable of effectively reducing or destroying Covenant shields. Smaller shipborne versions can take as many as three hits to overload a shield... And that's a MAC gun. Not some lone turret on the side of the deck. I'll reference again Admiral Griff's three Star Destroyers that were obliterated when they collided with the Executor's shields. Three giant, mile-long, metal behemoths travelling at hyperspace velocity. Incinerated. Now I know the Providence-class ships don't aren't the Executor, but that's the kind of shielding technology Star Wars has. I very much doubt that Covenant plasma is going to be anymore effective that Star Wars laser (plasma) bolts.
considering that a MAC round travels at 50% of the speed of light and creates more energy than the entire arsenal of nukes on our planet at the time, id say that it could probably one-shot any vessel in halo or star wars except for maybe the sun crusher.
And then we have to consider maneuverability and position/accessibility of weapons placements. The CIS fleet at the Battle of Coruscant hosted thousands of destroyers and frigates, each bristling with turrets that provided a greater field of fire than anything seen in Halo. Even if Covenant plasma can penetrate SW shielding, they just don't have enough guns on their ships to make use of it. And UNSC MACs aren't worth their weight in lead in this fight. ODPs aren't battle ships, they don't traverse the galaxy, and they don't boast shielding, defensive placements, or even engines to move. The strike team during the Battle of Naboo could take those things down. And then there's the fighters. The millions of fighters SW could throw at them. So far, nothing in Halo can match vulture droids' speed, fire-rate, and numbers.
The CIS would win this solo. Jedi, clones, Grievous, Sith, or not. Their weapons are too powerful, their speed is too much, and their numbers are overwhelming. Droids solo.
No one's said it?
Battle Meditation.
Also this http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Starkiller_(superweapon)
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
according to traviss there were only three million clones throughout the entirety of the clone wars. so unless 99% of the cis' army was not used in the war that would mean that the clones were fighting and winning battles in which they were outnumbered by trillions to one odds...
Well. We're talking about Clones of the "deadliest man in the Galaxy" here, who were partitially trained by Mandalorian Warriors (and Fett himself). Watching the Clone War TV series, some of the stuff that Clones (especially Rex and Cody) pull of, is simply insane. Cody for example hits two moving animals in the eye with a single shot using reflex aiming. That's outright inhuman. Several Clone Troopers reached stats with more than 2,000 confirmed droid kills.
Then the Republic Army had additional support of the Jedi, with some Jedi clearly able to destroy entire droid armies on their own. Add militia forces on the planets that were fought on (e.g. Ryloth) and consider the fact that the CIS was lacking able tacticians (with Grievous being a noteable exception), so that commanders on the ground were constantly fooled by Jedi Generals and at times even Clone Commanders.
considering that the covenant army is about a million times larger in size (they number in the billions) and use superior combat tech on the ground, id say that they could win pretty much any ground engagement without much difficulty.
Urm.
A million times larger than what? The CIS droid army was, according to "RotS: Incredible Cross-Sections", numbering in the quintillions (!). Add the Clone Troopers and the Jedi to that equation and the Covenant / UNSC forces are clearly outnumbered.
Superior combat tech on the ground? You must be joking.
Infantry
The most devastating ground weapon in Halo (correct me, if I'm wrong) is the Spartan Laser. A laser beam weapon that needs to be charged for several seconds, has a rather long "cooldown" timer and can only fire five times, before a recharge is needed.
Now have a look at the DC-15A blaster rifle for comparison. That thing has enough firepower to rip through droids and vehicles, burn a 0.5 metre hole into a ferrocrete wall and has an effective range of 10 kilometres at maximum firepower.
When talking about firepower, the GAR wins this. Add nigh infinite battle droids (including such thing as droidekas) and some Jedi (Battle Meditation), Sith, Dark Jedi on the SW side. Halo infantry is pwned.
Vehicles
Lucien said that SW vehicles lack speed in comparison to the Halo ones. I have to correct that. In Halo units like the Banshee or Ghost are pretty fast - yet they have movement-speeds of 60 (Ghost) or 100 (Banshee) kph. Repulsor Tanks in the SWU reach speeds between 200-300 kph. CIS STAPs have a maximum speed of 400 kph. And even the walkers can move with a speed of 45-60 kph. Not that slow.
They also have superior armor (at least the GAR Walkers) and firepower in comparison to the Halo vehicles. And one could add air support for the ground forces. Unlimited amount of Vultured droids and additional Jedi Starfighters anybody?
Not that the SWU would need to participate in any "fair" ground combat. BDZ operations were conducted 1000s of years before the Clone Wars, which means the SWU could simply vaporize all Halo ground-forces from a secure orbit. Or the CIS infects the Halo forces with the Blue Shadow Virus. Not to mention ground based superweapons like the Dark Reaper, which can just be stopped by a force user - which the Halo universe doesn't have.
as for the ships, im of the opinion that halo technology is not that inferior compared to star wars technology. im aware that there are some obscene numbers in regards to the power sources in SW tech, but in the end imperial star destroyers were being utterly annihilated by asteroids in ESB, and a fleet was damaged to the point where they could no longer function by the kinetic energy created from being force pushed several thousand miles.
Some facts for you: The star destroyers were flying through that asteriod field over a time span of several days during which the shields / hull of the ships were constantly bombarded with meteorites with sizes up to that of skyscrapers. Note that just one ISD went down via a direct hit of a meteroid against the bridge tower. Well. Technically even that didn't pierce the hull of the ISD, but merely caused structural damage, given that the Commander of the ISD kept talking to Vader for a few seconds, before he was killed by a secondary explosion triggered by the impact.
And that fleet being "force pushed" several thousand miles. I think you forgot to mention that said fleet was hit by a force wave that tossed the fleet into another sun system with superluminal speed. I don't think that that kind of kinetic energy can be replicated by anything the Covenant has to offer. And notice how the ships weren't destroyed by that monument stress...
considering that a MAC round travels at 50% of the speed of light and creates more energy than the entire arsenal of nukes on our planet at the time, id say that it could probably one-shot any vessel in halo or star wars except for maybe the sun crusher.
Woah. Stop it.
Lets visit the realm of physic here. The largest MAC weapons that do exist in the Halo universe (notice that only UNSC forces are using that kind of technology) are installed as defense in a stable orbit above Earth. The smaller MACs on ships used fire projectiles with a weight of 600 tons at 40 % speed of light. Seems impressive, huh?
Well. The energy output would be T (Joule) = 1/2 m(kg)v(m/s)² or 5.39 x 10E21 Joule. Compare that to a turbolaser. The novel "Slave Ship" lists the fire power of large turbolasers in "the gigatonage range", meaning at least 2 Gigatons per shot, being 1,6 x 10E19 Joule. Meaning one MAC hit would unleash perhabs 300 times as much energy as a turbolaser shot. The point is that an ISD can unleash that energy in seconds (using various guns). And that's clearly nothing that would "one hit" an SW ship. Hell. The Executors shielding, as Lucien has already mentioned, survived three ISDs hitting them close to speed of light. The other vessels merely exploded against the Executors shielding. So the shields in the SWU can actually take some serious beating - even in terms of kinetic energy.
Which doesn't matter much, because MACs in the Halo universe are stationary weapon complacements at the hull of a ship, meaning you have to manouver the ship in a way that ensures the guns are pointed at the enemy. That look like Pirate Age broadside firing that turns any capital ship into a huge target. SW weapons can be rotated to fire in a 180 degree ankle, exposing only a minimum of the actual capital ship to enemy fire.
And the Venator-class ships can put almost all of their engines power (canon figure: 3.4 x 10E24 Joule per second) into their main heavy turbolasers. That would be equal to the energy produced by 1000 MAC rounds - and that every second. I guess, the Halo space-ships are pretty much toast.
Conclusion: The CIS alone would be able to curbstomp the Halo forces, adding the Jedi and the GAR just offers more possibilities for annihilitation of the Halo forces - in space or on ground alike.
The MAC weapons are moving faster than 14% the speed of light and
thus the standard equation doesn't apply.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The MAC weapons are moving faster than 14% the speed of light and
thus the standard equation doesn't apply.
I'd really love to know what changes at 14 % C...
T = 1/2 * M * V²
T = 4.31E21
VS
Ker = ((1/sqrt(1 - P²)) - 1) * M * 9e16
Ker = 4.91E22
The possible energy output of the Venator-class guns would still be close to 3.4x10E24 Joule. And that every second. Yet even with that kind of firepower, the armor of the Malevolence (after the ship lost it's shields and was damaged by the explosion of it's own ion-cannon) took several minutes of sustained fire from a Vanator-class without being damaged. Likewise ship-vs-ship engagements lasted over several minutes (even when bombers were used to dissable the shields of one ship).
So even if the result of the equation is changed - the result of the fight remains the same. 😉
In my opinion halo has a clear victory over the republic and CIS for multiple reasons.
1. Jedi are no where near as good as people make them out to be. Someone (can't remember his name) calculated the speed of blaster bolts to be around an average of 35m/s (the speed of a thrown baseball) the speed is larger when shot from spacecraft and the evidence is taken from the movies but I am willing to assume the clone wars era blaster have a similar shooting speed, this makes the whole Jedi blocking blaster bolts thing a whole lot less impressive and leads me to my concluding point, if Jedi can be shot down by blaster bolts then bullets that travels hundreds of times faster than blaster bolts then they should have no trouble cutting them down. And for force powers the only abilities that are really dangerous are direct abilities (that usually require site with the object for abilities like force choke etc ect) and so would only be used during battle making them ineffective since they take time and concentration that if your being shot at you can't spare.
2.space battles, this is really simple solution that many people ignore, first Star Wars sheids only block things like plasma so physical objects eg a bullet would pass through them, second there is the armour on there ships, if I am correct then at the time they used durasteel which despite what people say about it is weaker than titanium and in some cases (depending on the source) is weaker than normal steel, by a hundred or so times. This would mean that UNSC weapons would rip the hulls apart and the covernant after getting through the shields would so as well. A reference to this is when a marine claimed a single archer missile can at least mission kill any accept the most armoured ships in the UNSC arsenal so if that is what it does to A-titanium plates then imagine what it would do to the weaker durasteel armour of the Star Wars factions. Covernant ships have an unknown but even stronger armour than the UNSC. Next is the Mac cannon a kinetic weapon made of tungsten a material superior to titanium and depending on the size of the Mac can shoot to speeds of 60,000km/s and so would most likely rip any starwars ship in half. Finally for the UNSC arsenal is its ultimate weapon the NOVA bomb a extremely affective it has an aproxamated range of 60,000 kilometres and the fireball itself covering 217 kilometres, we don't have an exact measurment on the strength but pretty much anything inside the fireball is incinerated and the rest of the blast area would suffer shockwaves, this could in theary destroy the first Death Star and cripple the second single handedly, I am not as well versed in covernant weapons but I do know the majority of their weapons would have to destroy the Star Wars's shields before hitting the hull and after that they would have a similar affect than what they have on human ships just more slightly effective. Now Star Wars weapons are a problem, their weapons in cannon are op in every sense and their are two main problems immediately 1. If their firing thousounds of mega joules of energy them their ha to be recoil and lots of it, so much in fact that the emplacements would fly from their position and back into the ship the moment they fire causing significant damage. 2. Energy consumption, firing the four heavy cannons on a X-wing takes up more power than the USA creates in a year in one volley. So imagine entire fleets firing cannons on a much larger scale than the X-wings their is no way an empire can support that and even if they could they would devote so much to their military that their economy would have broke down. Their is also a theory about how blaster bolts do more or less damage depending on the surface (if you don't know Star Wars blaster bolts shoot either super heated gas or plasma) for example on hoth the at-at's weapons do little damage compared to what they are supposed to do while in a hanger when Han is outside the millennium falcon his blaster bolts from a pistol do almost as much damage as the at-at's heavy blasters which are used on star fighters this led me to believe that since alloys in the Star Wars universe can be plasma resistant then why can't halo's, the UNSC fourt the covenant for years and so there is no doubt that their armour on starships had to have been made at least slightly plasma resistant and the then their shielding inhanced by forerunner teck would be very strong, the covernant would be the in both atmour and shielding.
3.ground battles, in ground battles I have already explained how easy it is to kill Jedi and sixth would be only slightly harder to kill force lightning can damage multiple opponents at once. And the droids would be simpilar assuming they couldn't just shut them of either using a smart A.I or mass emp then since they group up and are relatively stupid meaning bombardment of their mass numbers would cut them down quickly and June to their dumbness without a leader would allow out manoeuvre tactics to be used affectivly, know before I talk about the clones I want to point out that the handheld blasters would suffer the same consequences as the space cannons with the added fault of the weapons heavy weight (the ammo would've very heavy if it were to pack a punch). Ok the clone troopers are heavily trained to the point they almost equal Spartans training wise however they have about half the training that a spartan (due to sped up aging) and since the UNSC have superior weapons and armour in the Spartans case it would give them an edge. For the covernant they would rely on numbers (at the start of the clone wars the clones numbered at around a million while the covernant numbered in the billions in total) and superior vehicles in the form of scarabs or banshees for mass destruction. In a ground battle the only problem was the artilarty which was superior to the halo artilary and the clones at-te (most other vehicles of the clone wars era either have to thin armour or to light weaponry to be affective against halo armour. Another major problem would be commando units bothe the clones and the CIS they have a commando unit these would pose problems on bothe the battle field and in operations behind enemy lines and the only match in the halo universe being Spartans or the best of the elites both getting an edge on weaponry and armour/shielding alone. Overall land battles would be a lot closer and in some cases the halo forces may even be pushed out of a attack and be forced to use their space superiority to their advantage and simply bombard the planets into submission.