Originally posted by Autokrat
This is some funny logic.Explain to me how my dislike of the American political system implies that I support anarchy.
Well, I dunno if you're an anarchist (or closed closet anarchist) but you're more than welcome not to like our system. I'm sure the system you like will most likely something I won't like....but voting is important whether you agree or not.
Originally posted by WickedDynamite
Well, I dunno if you're an anarchist (or closed closet anarchist) but you're more than welcome not to like our system. I'm sure the system you like will most likely something I won't like....but voting is important whether you agree or not.
Voting in and of itself is not vital. Voting among an educated electorate that is aware of the issues at hand and the various variables behind them, is a good thing.
The mass voting of idiots is not a good thing. Voting's usefulness is entirely dependent upon the people voting.
Perhaps I am too cynical, but I am of the opinion the average American voter has little actual information on what they voting on and why.
And even once people vote someone in, they often do not get what they expected. Inconsistency among politicians is an unwritten code of politics.
Originally posted by Autokrat
Voting in and of itself is not vital. Voting among an educated electorate that is aware of the issues at hand and the various variables behind them, is a good thing.
No, WRONG and very silly! Voting is for EVERY CITIZEN that belongs to community. You do NOT command who should vote or not vote base on an educated electorate. That is elitism and contradicts the idea of democracy. Whether they're up to date or not; they should still have the right to vote.
Originally posted by AutokratThe mass voting of idiots is not a good thing. Voting's usefulness is entirely dependent upon the people voting.
Why do you see them as "idiots"? is it because you don't agree with whom they're voting for? Too bad.
Originally posted by WickedDynamite
No, WRONG and very silly! Voting is for EVERY CITIZEN that belongs to community. You do NOT command who should vote or not vote base on an educated electorate. That is elitism and contradicts the idea of democracy. Whether they're up to date or not; they should still have the right to vote.
he didnt say they dont have the right...
Why do you see them as "idiots"? is it because you don't agree with whom they're voting for? Too bad.
😐
Originally posted by WickedDynamite
No, WRONG and very silly! Voting is for EVERY CITIZEN that belongs to community. You do NOT command who should vote or not vote base on an educated electorate. That is elitism and contradicts the idea of democracy. Whether they're up to date or not; they should still have the right to vote.Why do you see them as "idiots"? is it because you don't agree with whom they're voting for? Too bad.
I can see the point he's making. I can't find the video but I remember watching the one when Obama supporters were asked if they supported what they were told were Obama's polices when in fact they were McCain's policies. Obviously taking into consideration the fact that the video was edited that way, they all agreed with those polices and voted for Obama. Meaning that they had no clue why they were voting or what for.
I don't think that's beneficial for anyone.
I do think that, on the whole, US voters tend to vote based on their basic allegiances and at least a small amount of knowledge of democrat and republican principles even if they don't know the specific polices.
It's a lot worse in the UK when a huge number of voters vote based on what their parents voted for or who they've always voted for despite not having one clue what they're voting for.
An example being that the Conservative party will never get into power in Scotland (at least not for decades) because of the Poll Tax scandal of the 1980's...Even though in 20 years most of the people who vote wouldn't even have been alive during that period and most likely being totally ignorant of it and only knowing that Scottish people hate Maggie Thatcher (who will be long in her grave in 20 years)and the Tories.
Originally posted by WickedDynamite
No, WRONG and very silly! Voting is for EVERY CITIZEN that belongs to community. You do NOT command who should vote or not vote base on an educated electorate. That is elitism and contradicts the idea of democracy. Whether they're up to date or not; they should still have the right to vote.
The ignorant voter is far more harmful to the community of he votes in as opposed to when he doesn't vote. My educated vote should count for more than the opinion of someone that doesn't even know what they are talking about.
How well equipped is the average American for weeding through the political rhetoric?
How often does the average American realize when a politician is deliberately committing a fallacy?
Hardly at all, I would say. It infuriates me that the opinion of someone that does no research and simply votes because they heard something they liked, has the same weight as my vote. In fact it makes me wonder why I vote at all. In fact, its downright depressing.
Originally posted by WickedDynamite
Why do you see them as "idiots"? is it because you don't agree with whom they're voting for? Too bad.
You are putting words in my mouth that aren't there. If a person comes up to me and is of a different political opinion and then proceeded to defend their opinion based on facts and a well thought out argument, I would respect them and consider them to be a enlightened voter, even if a disagreed with them.
This is isn't about what I believe, its about the method in which people come to a conclusion on who they will vote for and why.
The idiots are the kind of people that say Sarah Palin appealed to the "Joe Sixpacks" and the common man. Simply put, people are stupid and the decisions of the majority effect everyone.
Whats worse is that America does a poor job of even trying to educate is voters. In high school, the only thing I learned about government was how amazing America was and how amazing and wonderful the American government is. Never in High School was I taught any skills in how to dissect a political argument and figure out what a politician was actually saying. The only reason I was skeptical was because I would educate myself outside of the garbage I learned in high school.
Hell, I'm not even demanding that the average voter have the same level of college education that I do. Maybe some kind of universal program in High School that was focused entirely on understanding rhetoric and the tricks politicians use.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Let's get ready to FILIBUSTER!I have no problem with the fact that a republican got elected, but the fact that this will lead to preventing a bill that most senators want from going to vote is ridiculous. That's the complete opposite of democracy.
I never quite understood where the concept of Filibuster came from. It seems like an incredibly stupid concept for a lawmaking body.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I agree. The notion that even if you're in the minority, you can totally shut down all legislation you don't agree with is the worst possible thing for legislation... it just encourages obstructionist sore losers.
It was almost certainly put there to appease whatever the equivalent of Libertarians was at the time. No one else would consider it a good idea.
Originally posted by inimalist
le sigh
Indeed, anarchy is a great system . . . if no one ever thinks of working together . . . and no one ever thinks of harming anyone else . . . and everyone is equal . . . and Platonic god-kings rise from the ocean to tell us what to do.
Frankly, I can't think of anything more likely to happen.
Seriously, though, while the traditional argument against anarchy are pretty dumb no intelligent person should be supporting the idea anyway as it's hysterically short sighted and ultimately is opposed only to the use of the WORD government.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Indeed, anarchy is a great system . . . if no one ever thinks of working together . . . and no one ever thinks of harming anyone else . . . and everyone is equal . . . and Platonic god-kings rise from the ocean to tell us what to do.Frankly, I can't think of anything more likely to happen.
Seriously, though, the traditional argument against anarchy are pretty dumb. No intelligent person should be supporting the idea anyway as it's hysterically short sighted and ultimately is opposed only to the use of the WORD government.
/thread
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
Originally posted by Autokrat
The average voter is an idiot thats been spoon fed bullcrap from the media.
😐
Originally posted by Autokrat
Voting in and of itself is not vital. Voting among an educated electorate that is aware of the issues at hand and the various variables behind them, is a good thing.The mass voting of idiots is not a good thing. Voting's usefulness is entirely dependent upon the people voting.
Perhaps I am too cynical, but I am of the opinion the average American voter has little actual information on what they voting on and why.
And even once people vote someone in, they often do not get what they expected. Inconsistency among politicians is an unwritten code of politics.
👆 👆 👆 👆 👆
Edit - My place in this thread pretty much has no place with Autokrat posting.
Ms. Marvel I'm sick of your stupid smilies and responses when you're trying to be a smart ass. You lack discussion skills are a waste of anyone's time, and this is just to inform you that I'm putting your nonsense garbage where it rightful belongs....IGNORE BUTTON.
Originally posted by jaden101
I can see the point he's making. I can't find the video but I remember watching the one when Obama supporters were asked if they supported what they were told were Obama's polices when in fact they were McCain's policies. Obviously taking into consideration the fact that the video was edited that way, they all agreed with those polices and voted for Obama. Meaning that they had no clue why they were voting or what for.I don't think that's beneficial for anyone.
I do think that, on the whole, US voters tend to vote based on their basic allegiances and at least a small amount of knowledge of democrat and republican principles even if they don't know the specific polices.
It's a lot worse in the UK when a huge number of voters vote based on what their parents voted for or who they've always voted for despite not having one clue what they're voting for.
An example being that the Conservative party will never get into power in Scotland (at least not for decades) because of the Poll Tax scandal of the 1980's...Even though in 20 years most of the people who vote wouldn't even have been alive during that period and most likely being totally ignorant of it and only knowing that Scottish people hate Maggie Thatcher (who will be long in her grave in 20 years)and the Tories.
I know what video you're describing Jaden. It was from the Howard Stern show where they interview people from Harlem and switch around the policies to get a reaction. I remember briefly the audio but the video is still out there.
It may not be beneficial for the opposing political party...but that's just how it is...you go out there campaign and inform people...that's how you get people to vote for candidate.
While is true that US voters tend to vote based on their basic allegiances the geography also plays a role, as well as communities, groups, etc...but as we've seen lately with New Jersey and Mass. the voters (i.e. the people) can switch over when things aren't going as promise.
Now, I cannot comment much on UK politics for my knowledge is insufficent...but I will comment that from what I seen of Brown isn't very compelling for the average joe in the streets. I still would like to see more of that Daniel Hannan fella from MEP.