Obama

Originally posted by Autokrat
What if Ron Paul is just another politician talented in rhetoric? How do you know he is really for the people? Why believe he would do anything he says or be any different from any other president?

There's a reason he was nicknamed Dr. "No"...it's cause he says "no" to so many things that don't agree with his "rhetoric."

I remember reading about a petty list of like...less than 10 items that he said yes to that "contradicted" his rhetoric because of provisions in bills he said yes to.

Originally posted by Autokrat
And why are the ideals of the founding fathers sacred? That was 230 odd years ago. Different times demand different ideals.

Not necessarily or even wholly.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Ron Paul makes me really uncomfortable. I think libertarianism is just crazy and his whole association with the GOA and his propensity to attract crazy people makes me nervous.

Crazy people are attracted/associated with just about every national politician.

Originally posted by Autokrat
Well considering he apparently wants to get rid of a good number of government agencies, I can see why.

The man has a tenuous grasp on reality.

I want to, as well. Not as many as he does, but I want to get rid of quite a few.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
The GOA stuff scares me. For those who don't know, the Gun Owners of America is a pro-gun advocacy group that the NRA thinks is too extreme that Ron Paul has had associations with and spoken at their events. Apart from endorsing a lot of extremist candidates like Marilyn Musgrave, they have a LOT of ties and with nativist militia, and white and Aryan nationalist organizations.

There's a million and 1 things, just like this, that can be associated with just about any national politician.

And, being "pro-gun" is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm "pro-gun", but not "pro-everything gun related."

Paul spoke at their conventions. Then again a shitload of Republicans have spoken in front of the Conservative Citizens Council and no one seems to care.

The thing I like about Ron Paul is while he served in office under the Reagan administration he got out of office and then became an independent because he said he saw how corrupt things really were in washinginton under BOTH parties and then became an independent.He just ran under the republican ticket because independents never win office and thats what he originally was is why he ran under the republican ticket again.

who knows what he would do for sure if he became president,I just want him to have the chance to be one is all especially since like I said,he is the only one who believes in the constitution.You listen to him talk and how the others talk is how you come to that conclusion.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
i don't care who is president.. each and every one of them lie and lie..

that is why i do not vote

Yeah, a politician is a politician: I'm surprised that people always have short memories when a new guy's at the helm. The fact is, this is the human condition, and it's not gonna change in the foreseeable future, whether Repub, Dem or a whole new 3rd party.

Right now, Obama's leaving me anxious, but still, he's got 3 years to go. Begrudgingly, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt...for now.

Originally posted by Mindship
Voting grants one the right to b*tch about the aftermath. Otherwise, one is complaining about a situation one helped create via inaction (IMO).

Not if none of the viable candidates are not what you wanted, such as my case.

I would have voted Ron Paul, but he withdrew from running. I know I can write in, by why take the hassle to vote for someone that withdrew? Just to make a useless statement?

Originally posted by Mindship
Voting grants one the right to b*tch about the aftermath. Otherwise, one is complaining about a situation one helped create via inaction (IMO).

That is silly. And by that logic you can only ***** about the system if you didn't vote, otherwise one is complaining about a situation one accepted as valid through participation.

Obviously neither really makes much sense though.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Not if none of the viable candidates are not what you wanted, such as my case.

I would have voted Ron Paul, but he withdrew from running. I know I can write in, by why take the hassle to vote for someone that withdrew? Just to make a useless statement?

In any event, I certainly understand the dismay.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That is silly. And by that logic you can only ***** about the system if you didn't vote, otherwise one is complaining about a situation one accepted as valid through participation.

Obviously neither really makes much sense though.

Bardock,was hoping you would come on this thread.do you by chance have those links still that you used to have posted in your sig about Ron Paul? if so,any chance you could post them here? those were some really good information links that gave you an idea WHY he was the ideal candidate for president I remember.if you can post those again,I would appreciate it.

They were always extremely handy in debates.While I found that most people could not admit that there was government corruption going on involving both parties in message boards I have been to in the past before the elections,I at least a lot of times could get people convinced back then that Ron Paul was the candidate to vote for and those links you had back then had a lot to do with it. 💃

most people here just dont get it that it doesnt matter WHO is put into office.That as long as its a republican or democrat things will never change and it will always be a government of the corporations,for the corporations,and by the corporations instead of one by the people.They just dont get it that from here on out,whether its a demo or republican,every president that gets in from here on out is going to be worse than the last one just like it has been the last 30 years or so. 🙄

Originally posted by Mindship

Valid? Nyet. Just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

Could be.

It's really the same non sequitur. Honestly the lack of participation in voting sends just as much a sign, probably even more so than voting for someone you don't care to win for.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Not if none of the viable candidates are not what you wanted, such as my case.

Then vote for an unviable candidate that you do agree with, still better than not voting.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Bardock,was hoping you would come on this thread.do you by chance have those links still that you used to have posted in your sig about Ron Paul? if so,any chance you could post them here? those were some really good information links that gave you an idea WHY he was the ideal candidate for president I remember.if you can post those again,I would appreciate it.

They were always extremely handy in debates.While I found that most people could not admit that there was government corruption going on involving both parties in message boards I have been to in the past before the elections,I at least a lot of times could get people convinced back then that Ron Paul was the candidate to vote for and those links you had back then had a lot to do with it. 💃

most people here just dont get it that it doesnt matter WHO is put into office.That as long as its a republican or democrat things will never change and it will always be a government of the corporations,for the corporations,and by the corporations instead of one by the people.They just dont get it that from here on out,whether its a demo or republican,every president that gets in from here on out is going to be worse than the last one just like it has been the last 30 years or so. 🙄

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then vote for an unviable candidate that you do agree with, still better than not voting.

NO, stop pretending not voting is bad. IT'S GOOD...GOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!

Originally posted by Mindship
Unfortunately, sometimes it is a matter of choosing the lesser of the available evils, if only to keep the greater evil at bay.

I wonder how many others may have had the same thought and so did nothing.

In my case, the "evils" from both major party candidates was too much to justify a vote to either. A vote for any other candidate would be a complete waste. Ron Paul was basically the "independent" before he decided to drop out. Despite knowing that he would lose, and me agreeing with him 80% of the time, I would have still voted for him, on principle.

That's the problem with a system totally dominated by 2 parties.

...Who both answer to the same bosses, and I don't mean the people they're supposed to protect and represent and who agree with each other too often on too many bad ideas.

Oh, and as of this morning with the announcement of the whole spending freeze, Obama has gone down for me from pussy to complete piece of shit. This will be 1937 all over again if that goes through. You thought the last half of 2008 was bad? You haven't seen anything yet.

Originally posted by dadudemon
In my case, the "evils" from both major party candidates was too much to justify a vote to either.

There should just be a national movement to either infiltrate and change the parties or throw both of them out. I'd rather have the reform party as the conservative and a green or social democratic party as the liberal if we had to keep it to two parties.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
There should just be a national movement to either infiltrate and change the parties or throw both of them out. I'd rather have the reform party as the conservative and a green or social democratic party as the liberal if we had to keep it to two parties.

totally agree.well said. 👆

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/26/james-okeefe-arrested-in-_n_437506.html

Maybe after he gets out of Federal butt-ramming prison, this dork can lead the conservative party.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then vote for an unviable candidate that you do agree with, still better than not voting.

No it's not. Why waste money on gas and spend time drivig (I hate driving) just to vote, on a write in, for a person that has withdrawn his or her candidacy? Why not just stay at work and do business as usual?

Either way, the result would still be the same except I get to say that I protested the candidates by not voting.

Now, if they had an option called, "none of the above", I'd vote for that, A LOT!