Wonder Woman vs The Marvel Universe 2

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
i go with Wondy > BRB 6.5/10
and Thor > Wondy 7/10

I can see where someone could argue that. But it's very easy to forget that Diana is *alot* tougher than many people realize, and the defenses she has via her bracers and lasso are often underestimated; many posters around here, for example, weren't aware that she is often depicted as repelling small areas from attacks (particularly energy) via her bracers and the Aegis power they channel -- and that's going back starting 20+ years ago. Much like with Superman, Thor's "special effects" are much more impressive than Diana's, and there is no arguement at all that he has a greater range of abilities than she does. But greater range doesn't equal greater depth, and in a conventional battle, WW comes armed with the core abilities/defenses needed to engage the likes of Thor, and other divine/infernal beings. Godblast? She already repelled/deflected the likes of that with her bracers (the time she deflected the combined power of the Olympian gods is just one example). Lightning/Storm effects? While she is not as resistant to electricity as to other attacks, her bracers allow her to mitigate many of these strikes, and she has routinely fought others in much worse conditions. Strength/Durability? Despite many a fanbois' beliefs, Diana is nearly as strong as Superman, making her in the same general league as Thor (though he edges her in the long haul, but that won't matter as much in a conventional battle), and she can take/withstand, or at least endure, massive battles against similarly powerful foes (her fights with Circe-enhanced Superman, and the IC fight, certainly demonstrate that). Combat skills? While Thor is definitely top-tier when it comes to laying out the whoop-ass, Diana has a greater degree of finesse than he does; also, while his power allows him to battle superfast opponents, he intrinsically does not have the same agility and grace that she does. Weapons/Accessories? Just because Mjolner has more obvious tricks than the bracers/lasso/tiara, doesn't mean it's the end-all of this fight: her weapons, for combat purposes, easily match Mjolner -- the bracers can resist nigh-all physical attacks, the lasso can potentially one-shot almost any opponent, and the tiara can at least inflict bad damage even against gods (she could plausably slit his throat the way she did Clark's, or the way she beheaded Deimos -- though Thor is too uber to be decapitated in one-shot; just using that as a reference example).

Much like in battles with the Hulk/Hercules, who many people don't have a problem with when it comes to Thor, Wonder Woman brings everything they have to the table, conceptually, and more. It has always puzzled me why so many people have trouble seeing that; contextually, she *actually* is a much more direct counter-part to Thor than either Superman or Captain Marvel, in many aspects. Guess the fanboi gene doesn't allow for such a comparison... (not directing that at anyone here, specifically, just in general).

Apologies for length.

Originally posted by tideoftime
I can see where someone could argue that. But it's very easy to forget that Diana is *alot* tougher than many people realize, and the defenses she has via her bracers and lasso are often underestimated; many posters around here, for example, weren't aware that she is often depicted as repelling small areas from attacks (particularly energy) via her bracers and the Aegis power they channel -- and that's going back starting 20+ years ago. Much like with Superman, Thor's "special effects" are much more impressive than Diana's, and there is no arguement at all that he has a greater range of abilities than she does. But greater range doesn't equal greater depth, and in a conventional battle, WW comes armed with the core abilities/defenses needed to engage the likes of Thor, and other divine/infernal beings. Godblast? She already repelled/deflected the likes of that with her bracers (the time she deflected the combined power of the Olympian gods is just one example). Lightning/Storm effects? While she is not as resistant to electricity as to other attacks, her bracers allow her to mitigate many of these strikes, and she has routinely fought others in much worse conditions. Strength/Durability? Despite many a fanbois' beliefs, Diana is nearly as strong as Superman, making her in the same general league as Thor (though he edges her in the long haul, but that won't matter as much in a conventional battle), and she can take/withstand, or at least endure, massive battles against similarly powerful foes (her fights with Circe-enhanced Superman, and the IC fight, certainly demonstrate that). Combat skills? While Thor is definitely top-tier when it comes to laying out the whoop-ass, Diana has a greater degree of finesse than he does; also, while his power allows him to battle superfast opponents, he intrinsically does not have the same agility and grace that she does. Weapons/Accessories? Just because Mjolner has more obvious tricks than the bracers/lasso/tiara, doesn't mean it's the end-all of this fight: her weapons, for combat purposes, easily match Mjolner -- the bracers can resist nigh-all physical attacks, the lasso can potentially one-shot almost any opponent, and the tiara can at least inflict bad damage even against gods (she could plausably slit his throat the way she did Clark's, or the way she beheaded Deimos -- though Thor is too uber to be decapitated in one-shot; just using that as a reference example).

Much like in battles with the Hulk/Hercules, who many people don't have a problem with when it comes to Thor, Wonder Woman brings everything they have to the table, conceptually, and more. It has always puzzled me why so many people have trouble seeing that; contextually, she *actually* is a much more direct counter-part to Thor than either Superman or Captain Marvel, in many aspects. Guess the fanboi gene doesn't allow for such a comparison... (not directing that at anyone here, specifically, just in general).

Apologies for length.

👆 Pretty solid, dude.

Originally posted by tideoftime
I can see where someone could argue that. But it's very easy to forget that Diana is *alot* tougher than many people realize, and the defenses she has via her bracers and lasso are often underestimated; many posters around here, for example, weren't aware that she is often depicted as repelling small areas from attacks (particularly energy) via her bracers and the Aegis power they channel -- and that's going back starting 20+ years ago. Much like with Superman, Thor's "special effects" are much more impressive than Diana's, and there is no arguement at all that he has a greater range of abilities than she does. But greater range doesn't equal greater depth, and in a conventional battle, WW comes armed with the core abilities/defenses needed to engage the likes of Thor, and other divine/infernal beings. Godblast? She already repelled/deflected the likes of that with her bracers (the time she deflected the combined power of the Olympian gods is just one example). Lightning/Storm effects? While she is not as resistant to electricity as to other attacks, her bracers allow her to mitigate many of these strikes, and she has routinely fought others in much worse conditions. Strength/Durability? Despite many a fanbois' beliefs, Diana is nearly as strong as Superman, making her in the same general league as Thor (though he edges her in the long haul, but that won't matter as much in a conventional battle), and she can take/withstand, or at least endure, massive battles against similarly powerful foes (her fights with Circe-enhanced Superman, and the IC fight, certainly demonstrate that). Combat skills? While Thor is definitely top-tier when it comes to laying out the whoop-ass, Diana has a greater degree of finesse than he does; also, while his power allows him to battle superfast opponents, he intrinsically does not have the same agility and grace that she does. Weapons/Accessories? Just because Mjolner has more obvious tricks than the bracers/lasso/tiara, doesn't mean it's the end-all of this fight: her weapons, for combat purposes, easily match Mjolner -- the bracers can resist nigh-all physical attacks, the lasso can potentially one-shot almost any opponent, and the tiara can at least inflict bad damage even against gods (she could plausably slit his throat the way she did Clark's, or the way she beheaded Deimos -- though Thor is too uber to be decapitated in one-shot; just using that as a reference example).

Much like in battles with the Hulk/Hercules, who many people don't have a problem with when it comes to Thor, Wonder Woman brings everything they have to the table, conceptually, and more. It has always puzzled me why so many people have trouble seeing that; contextually, she *actually* is a much more direct counter-part to Thor than either Superman or Captain Marvel, in many aspects. Guess the fanboi gene doesn't allow for such a comparison... (not directing that at anyone here, specifically, just in general).

Apologies for length.

damn you ToT!!!
why you always gotta make great Wondy posts??
fine fine its Thor > Wondy 6.2/10
and btw, I think Orion is more of DC's version of Thor!!! (but more on the sci fi side instead of mystic abilities)

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
damn you ToT!!!
why you always gotta make great Wondy posts??
fine fine its Thor > Wondy 6.2/10
and btw, I think Orion is more of DC's version of Thor!!! (but more on the sci fi side instead of mystic abilities)

Oh, Orion is definitely another good counterpart, if with a very different slant; I was just referring to the general tendancy of people to use Superman or Captain Marvel as the natural "opposition". Diana's physical prowess/skills are a female/male mirror to Thor's (he edges in brute strength/general durability, while she edges with agility/finesse; they both have powerful mystical artifacts that aid them greatly, and are very closely identified with them not just in terms of character concept, but metaphysically as well; both have a "warrior's heart" that neither Clark nor Billy can ever match (no disrespect to either, but I think most people would agree); and both even have similar mythical origins, both being imbued/inheriting divine power and being born of Gaea -- people forget how conceptually close Thor's and Diana's births are, metaphysically speaking).

As far as the 6.2/10 ratio... rounding to 6/10... I'd go with that, for the sake of discussion, as it is in the same range I gave Superman over Wonder Woman (6-7/10). As I've posted before, I give it a split (even though I gave Kurse the win) because of the manner in which both opponents fight: Diana always looks for the subdual first (and is good at it -- recent issues WW 40-41 have her fighting a deceived Power Girl and as always her thoughts go to how to subdue Karen, rather than inflict major harm); Thor is a powerhouse, but as Quan himself has often (correctly) indicated, often meets people on their own terms -- he is likely to underestimate WW for several moves, which is the window of opportunity she often looks for. Now, is that a definite? No, not at all. But even if push came to kill, the two of them have so many similarities in direct combat that it really is a tough call. But 6/10 for Thor is close enough, IMO, to what I posted, so I'll agree to it.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Oh, Orion is definitely another good counterpart, if with a very different slant; I was just referring to the general tendancy of people to use Superman or Captain Marvel as the natural "opposition". Diana's physical prowess/skills are a female/male mirror to Thor's (he edges in brute strength/general durability, while she edges with agility/finesse; they both have powerful mystical artifacts that aid them greatly, and are very closely identified with them not just in terms of character concept, but metaphysically as well; both have a "warrior's heart" that neither Clark nor Billy can ever match (no disrespect to either, but I think most people would agree); and both even have similar mythical origins, both being imbued/inheriting divine power and being born of Gaea -- people forget how conceptually close Thor's and Diana's births are, metaphysically speaking).

As far as the 6.2/10 ratio... rounding to 6/10... I'd go with that, for the sake of discussion, as it is in the same range I gave Superman over Wonder Woman (6-7/10). As I've posted before, I give it a split (even though I gave Kurse the win) because of the manner in which both opponents fight: Diana always looks for the subdual first (and is good at it -- recent issues WW 40-41 have her fighting a deceived Power Girl and as always her thoughts go to how to subdue Karen, rather than inflict major harm); Thor is a powerhouse, but as Quan himself has often (correctly) indicated, often meets people on their own terms -- he is likely to underestimate WW for several moves, which is the window of opportunity she often looks for. Now, is that a definite? No, not at all. But even if push came to kill, the two of them have so many similarities in direct combat that it really is a tough call. But 6/10 for Thor is close enough, IMO, to what I posted, so I'll agree to it.

Very well said. I do agree that in my mind, WW is a better counter part to Thor given their backgrounds. I think their temperaments would also make for an interesting clash. Many people disagreed with Wizard's Top 10 Superhero's list, but one of the things that I think they did get right was that Thor vs. Wonder Woman was the best fight on that list.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Very well said. I do agree that in my mind, WW is a better counter part to Thor given their backgrounds. I think their temperaments would also make for an interesting clash. Many people disagreed with Wizard's Top 10 Superhero's list, but one of the things that I think they did get right was that Thor vs. Wonder Woman was the best fight on that list.

Oh, no Sh!t! I remember reading that when it came out (what, like, 12 years ago, or so?) and completely agreed with it. WW vs. Thor was by a league the most interesting of the potential fights listed. I also agreed that he would defeat her, in the context of making a "short-list", where a 6/10 would qualify as a "definitive" win for purposes of ranking.