suicide

Originally posted by King Kandy
I'm not interested in discussing the legality with you because that is a completely black and white issue that can generate no meaningful discussion.

My point is, you are trying to tell people that there is a certain way they must live their life, which is a position you usually disagree with in all other contexts.

No. I'm doing two things: 1. pointing out the law. 2. supporting the law's position.

The law is telling people how to live. I am simply being an advocate, because I've seen how painful suicide can be to the family.

If we were talking about how some god viewed suicide, then my points would be quite different.

Admittedly, I share some of the blame for your misunderstanding, because I'm not the best communicator. However, you are simply mistaken.

I'm saying, I don't see how in one forum you can be all "telling people they have to live a certain way is bad" and yet here saying "I don't think you should have the right to kill yourself".

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You didn't get that from what I said.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I'm saying, I don't see how in one forum you can be all "telling people they have to live a certain way is bad" and yet here saying "I don't think you should have the right to kill yourself".

It all has to do with reality verses supernatural. Laws, pain, and suicide are real, while gods and holy books are supernatural. I'm sorry if you don't see the difference.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It all has to do with reality verses supernatural. Laws, pain, and suicide are real, while gods and holy books are supernatural. I'm sorry if you don't see the difference.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So you're trying to tell me that your personal feelings on this issue are "reality"? That is quite arrogant.

Yeah, but, for people like me, it's the way it is for infinity no take-backs.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So you're trying to tell me that your personal feelings on this issue are "reality"? That is quite arrogant.

And you are telling me that suicide is not real? 😕

No, but your personal perspective on it isn't.

Originally posted by King Kandy
No, but your personal perspective on it isn't.

If that is true, then to be fair, nether is your perspective. Why are you wasting my time?

I think thats the point though. OUR perspectives are rather meaningless when it comes to another's decision to commit suicide.

I'd agree, there are often other options people can take and suicide is by its nature selfish, but it is ultimatly a decision which one person gets to decide. You can feel victimized by it, or you can accept that the person knew what was best for themselves.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If that is true, then to be fair, nether is your perspective. Why are you wasting my time?

Originally posted by inimalist
I think thats the point though. OUR perspectives are rather meaningless when it comes to another's decision to commit suicide.

I'd agree, there are often other options people can take and suicide is by its nature selfish, but it is ultimatly a decision which one person gets to decide. You can feel victimized by it, or you can accept that the person knew what was best for themselves.

It is ultimately a person's decision to murder, also, but that does not make it legal or right. Of course, I am assuming that we are talking about a healthy person.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Because you're using something completely subjective to try and make people act how you want. I prefer to err on the side of freedom.

You do not have the freedom to cause pain to other people. If there was a case were no pain would be caused by a person committing suicide, then I would agree. However, most people do not fall into that category.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It is ultimately a person's decision to murder, also, but that does not make it legal or right. Of course, I am assuming that we are talking about a health person.

someone who wants to kill themselves is, by definition, not a healthy person

A murder also has a victim. The law is not about taking the person away from their family, but murdering the individual. The morals are about the fact you have violated that person's right to life. Like, if we extended your argument, it would be immoral to do anything which might cause displeasure to anyone.

You have a point, and it does show that people who commit suicide are more concerned with their own suffering than with that of others. Obviously I'd never recommend someone kill themselves, but I certainly don't know what is best for anyone but myself.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You do not have the freedom to cause pain to other people.

that view is not congruent with even the most basic ideas of freedom of expression and many other personal freedoms.

I know this is pushing it, but really, you would be hard pressed to demarcate what is "acceptable" pain to cause people vicariously.

Originally posted by inimalist
someone who wants to kill themselves is, by definition, not a healthy person

There is a difference between a terminally ill person and one who is mentally troubled. However, if someone is so troubled mentally that life is not bearable, then I would be ok with assisted suicide as long as the family is involved. My point is not dogmatic, just strongly felt.

Originally posted by inimalist
A murder also has a victim. The law is not about taking the person away from their family, but murdering the individual. The morals are about the fact you have violated that person's right to life. Like, if we extended your argument, it would be immoral to do anything which might cause displeasure to anyone.

However, laws also address vendetta. In this case vendetta turns into guilt.

Originally posted by inimalist
You have a point, and it does show that people who commit suicide are more concerned with their own suffering than with that of others. Obviously I'd never recommend someone kill themselves, but I certainly don't know what is best for anyone but myself.

I would agree. I simply have a strong opinion about how someone should go about committing suicide.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You do not have the freedom to cause pain to other people. If there was a case were no pain would be caused by a person committing suicide, then I would agree. However, most people do not fall into that category.

tell that to network companies that take my shows off the air... parents and relatives saying hurtful things.... military and police training use pain as a learning tool and part of their procedures...... 😮‍💨

Originally posted by inimalist
that view is not congruent with even the most basic ideas of freedom of expression and many other personal freedoms.

I know this is pushing it, but really, you would be hard pressed to demarcate what is "acceptable" pain to cause people vicariously.

You have captured one of the main problems with law.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
tell that to network companies that take my shows off the air... parents and relatives saying hurtful things.... military and police training use pain as a learning tool and part of their procedures...... 😮‍💨

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You do not have the freedom to cause pain to other people. If there was a case were no pain would be caused by a person committing suicide, then I would agree. However, most people do not fall into that category.